Completed the Super A'can set!

[GPX | 1,374]

On 10/1/2023 at 10:42 AM, DarkKobold said:

FWIW, Mods, I'm OK with an interesting discussion of what it paid, so long as it isn't personal attacks. 

You are absolutely, 110% correct. The "market" determined the price I paid, and that's what it's worth from a pure, emotionless economic perspective. 

I think my original post is being misconstrued.  On a personal level, I feel like it was an absolute scorcher of a deal because to me, it's worth far more than an equivalent to two CIB Earthbounds.  If I had a stack of 10 Earthbound CIB, and trading them is what it took to get REBEL, I would have traded them without a 2nd thought.  The truth is, the market for this system is tiny, so yeah, demand is low. But to me, personally, seeing "rare" games sell in the high 4 figures daily, buying a game I've personally sought after for 8 years, buying for mid 4 figures feels amazing. So yeah, I'm celebrating what I emotionally consider a deal, even though rationally, the market dictated the price. 

It's hard for me to separate what I emotionally and personally think this game is worth, and all the naysayers saying that it's crazy to spend that much. I guess I'm lucky my grail is a game from a weird failed system from Taiwan, and not a Sticker Sealed 9.8 WATA graded Super Mario Bros, lol. 

I think mentioning the “worth” and WATA is what’s causing the reactionary comments. WATA’s done a good job of raising the popularity of games, but also in the process have caused a bigger discrepancy in perspectives in the “worth” of a game. My take on your usage of the word is on how much getting it meant to you as a collector, rather than the monetary gain in the foreseeable future. Just next time, be careful when you say “WATA”, it truly has a polarising effect on this forum!

[Khromak | 770]

1 hour ago, GPX said:

Just next time, be careful when you say “WATA”, it truly has a polarising effect on this forum!

I mean, the OP never mentioned WATA, the first time it was brought up was in a troll comment, so I'm not sure who you're telling to be careful to mention WATA. The only time OP said WATA was that he was worried WATA-level buyers were going to swoop down on this, a statement I took to mean "I hope I (a real collector) get this and that some millionaire investor asshole doesn't outbid me." which seems pretty in line with how most other members of the forum view "WATA-level buyers".

I guess what an outrageous bid/sales price is depends on your perspective, but I think the thing most people find abhorrent about the investors vs collectors thing is more the disinterest in the item itself and the focus on the value. Since he said he's never going to sell it, he has the rest of the set, he knows a bunch about it, he's planning to dump it, and he's been looking for it for 8 years, I think it's pretty safe to say OP falls in the category of collector and not investor or WATA buyer. Seemed pretty clear to me from the first post, I don't know how anyone could see his conduct and think he's the bad guy here.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

2 hours ago, Khromak said:

I mean, the OP never mentioned WATA, the first time it was brought up was in a troll comment, so I'm not sure who you're telling to be careful to mention WATA. The only time OP said WATA was that he was worried WATA-level buyers were going to swoop down on this, a statement I took to mean "I hope I (a real collector) get this and that some millionaire investor asshole doesn't outbid me." which seems pretty in line with how most other members of the forum view "WATA-level buyers".

I guess what an outrageous bid/sales price is depends on your perspective, but I think the thing most people find abhorrent about the investors vs collectors thing is more the disinterest in the item itself and the focus on the value. Since he said he's never going to sell it, he has the rest of the set, he knows a bunch about it, he's planning to dump it, and he's been looking for it for 8 years, I think it's pretty safe to say OP falls in the category of collector and not investor or WATA buyer. Seemed pretty clear to me from the first post, I don't know how anyone could see his conduct and think he's the bad guy here.

Well I think the first post where he immediately compares the game to Magical Chase didn't do him any favors. Similarly, regarding the WATA-level collector, it's kind of funny he was worried about getting priced out by an investor (which wouldn't even care about something like this), but similarly going around comparing the game to Magical Chase and saying about how almost 6K is a steal and yadda yadda yadda is possibly going to price out anyone else who wants one of these in the future, when they inevitably show up.

Finally, the I'm never going to sell this line just gets tiring, everyone's priorities change over time so it's more likely than not that this will get resold at some point years down the line, for an even more ridiculous price. And it's funny that the groundwork for that has been carefully set up here, with the comparison to Magical Chase. Maybe everyone should just start comparing their 1/1 known copy games to Magical Chase?

[spacepup | 2,412]

The unsubstantiated hypotheticals are not helpful.

I don't know what the history is either with you two, this game, or otherwise, and I don't really want to know, but you came into this thread with a very ODD and unusual amount of negativity about his purchase, taking the offense about something that should have been just a simple thread here about someone sharing an accomplishment.  Let this be THE end to it. 

[GPX | 1,374]

19 hours ago, Khromak said:

I mean, the OP never mentioned WATA, the first time it was brought up was in a troll comment, so I'm not sure who you're telling to be careful to mention WATA. The only time OP said WATA was that he was worried WATA-level buyers were going to swoop down on this, a statement I took to mean "I hope I (a real collector) get this and that some millionaire investor asshole doesn't outbid me." which seems pretty in line with how most other members of the forum view "WATA-level buyers".

I guess what an outrageous bid/sales price is depends on your perspective, but I think the thing most people find abhorrent about the investors vs collectors thing is more the disinterest in the item itself and the focus on the value. Since he said he's never going to sell it, he has the rest of the set, he knows a bunch about it, he's planning to dump it, and he's been looking for it for 8 years, I think it's pretty safe to say OP falls in the category of collector and not investor or WATA buyer. Seemed pretty clear to me from the first post, I don't know how anyone could see his conduct and think he's the bad guy here.

Yes, I think I stuffed up, mixing some of the posts I read previously. Either way, my sentiments remain the same: genuinely appreciative when seeing something truly rare come up on this forum, and I have no doubts that WATA/HA were the instigators of people having a greater diversion of opinions on the “worth” of a game. 

TLDR:

- sentimental worth - priceless

- objective worth - who the heck really knows?

[DarkKobold | 195]

22 hours ago, Khromak said:

I mean, the OP never mentioned WATA, the first time it was brought up was in a troll comment, so I'm not sure who you're telling to be careful to mention WATA. The only time OP said WATA was that he was worried WATA-level buyers were going to swoop down on this, a statement I took to mean "I hope I (a real collector) get this and that some millionaire investor asshole doesn't outbid me." which seems pretty in line with how most other members of the forum view "WATA-level buyers".

I guess what an outrageous bid/sales price is depends on your perspective, but I think the thing most people find abhorrent about the investors vs collectors thing is more the disinterest in the item itself and the focus on the value. Since he said he's never going to sell it, he has the rest of the set, he knows a bunch about it, he's planning to dump it, and he's been looking for it for 8 years, I think it's pretty safe to say OP falls in the category of collector and not investor or WATA buyer. Seemed pretty clear to me from the first post, I don't know how anyone could see his conduct and think he's the bad guy here.

I do want to be careful - I don't like the idea of people declaring everyone who isn't buying WATA games is a "real collector" and everyone who is, is a "dirty investor." There's definitely both types of people on both sides of WATA collecting. There's 100% people who are genuine collectors and enthusiasts who want to own minty WATA games, for whatever reason. 

My point was that, like it or not, there are some people with absurd means who have joined this hobby. Whether they're doing it because they think it's a great place to park their money, or they're just incredibly wealthy and have an interest in sealed games, it's not possible to know. I realize I won't win more fans by saying this, but there are legitimate collectors buying WATA games. Are they the ones spending 6 figures on a DKC? Probably not, but maybe they exist. I hate judging people I don't know. 

Mentioning "WATA-level buyers" was to remind people that there are people dropping 5-6 figures on video games, regularly. I mean, if the two people who bid this game up were instead interested in the Super A'can, I wouldn't have even been close to competing.  

 

I'd like to emphasize my point isn't "Man, this is worth so much more when I sell it." Before the auction closed, I didn't know if it was gonna sell for $500, $1000, $5,000, $10,000,  $50,000, $500,000 etc. since there was no price history, and I didn't know who the competition was. If it was even one of the guys above who wanted it, again, I'd be screwed. I was quite happy when those guys did NOT show up. Maybe it's a little absurd to think there was a crossover between people buying WATA games and people interested in an obscure 16-bit console out of Taiwan. However, until the auction ended, I had no idea who was going to show up. 

I probably screwed up by mentioning "value" in my first post. I was just surprised to get it for cheaper than Magical Chase. Let me explain: I've been at a Turbografx-16 Complete HuCard collection minus one for close to a decade. I passed on getting Magical Chase when it was far cheaper, and now, I likely will never get it, because I feel "I can always get it later, or possibly find a deal on it." With REBEL, I assumed this was my first/last/only chance, so I was willing to go really high on it. Hence the comparison in value, both were 1 game needed to finish a set. Magical Chase, something I can reasonably expect to get later, frequently sells for more than I paid for REBEL, which I feel I would never have another shot at. There's no evil plan to promote the value for a later sale date, just a personal comparison of two items needed to finish two different sets, and surprise at the price discrepancy given the rarity discrepancy. 

And really, if I were super concerned about the long-term value, I absolutely would not be dumping it. Once the ROM is available, the "specialness" is partially lost, to some degree. The years of battles at NA over prototypes demonstrates this. Further, it invites someone to make a Son of Evil cart into a REBEL, and since it's impossible to open A'can carts without damaging them. Some shady person might start making fakes, which further dilutes the market and my "resale potential." But, at the end of the day, this game needs to be available and playable by all A'can fans.

[a3quit4s | 4,127]

I still think the name is racist as hell, shoulda just called it Water. 
 

congrats on your full set and maybe you can get @Glovesto make you a charm or bauble or whatever the hell is replacing them lmao

Edited October 6, 2023 by a3quit4s

[Reed Rothchild | 9,592]

A long-time big time collector reaches a celebratory milestone (on a forum that is a spiritual successor to a major collecting site), in the section of the site that is literally dedicated to sharing your big time acquisitions...

 

And, as is usually the case when four figure amounts are involved, it brings out the worst in some people.

Congrats @DarkKobold .  You never owed any explanations to anyone.

[Gloves | 11,842]

5 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

I still think the name is racist as hell, shoulda just called it Water. 
 

congrats on your full set and maybe you can get @Glovesto make you a charm or bauble or whatever the hell is replacing them lmao

I think there's a super acan charm, actually. We just have to finish determining the point system per badge. 

[DarkKobold | 195]

6 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

I still think the name is racist as hell, shoulda just called it Water

Oh, absolutely, and my defense of WATA collectors should be in no way considered a defense of that company. They are shady as all hell. Karl Jobst did wonders bringing that to light. 

[a3quit4s | 4,127]

29 minutes ago, DarkKobold said:

Oh, absolutely, and my defense of WATA collectors should be in no way considered a defense of that company. They are shady as all hell. Karl Jobst did wonders bringing that to light. 

I’ve decided to put down my sword on the issue, there is plenty of information out there for people to make an informed decision and whatever makes people happy man. Life’s too short to get hung up on how other people wanna spend their money. 

[a3quit4s | 4,127]

31 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I think there's a super acan charm, actually. We just have to finish determining the point system per badge. 

I volunteer to be part of this committee as I have lead the charge on busting your balls on Baubles and Charms

[BlackVega | 583]

21 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

I still think the name is racist as hell, shoulda just called it Water. 
 

congrats on your full set and maybe you can get @Glovesto make you a charm or bauble or whatever the hell is replacing them lmao

I'm sorry what, I can sense there was supposedly some drama going on in this topic but I don't recall anyone being RACIST now?? Now who was supposed to be racist ANYWHERE here???

Anyway, maybe it is worth getting back on the actual topic about actual system? Because this seems to be such a rabbit hole nobody has touched yet

So what is this system, some Motorola 68000 CPU based system that failed?? How are the games? Are they advanced, fun or enjoyable in any way? Any heavyhitters? Some quick copy paste from wiki reveals this

CPU	Motorola 68000 clocked at 10.738635 MHz
Memory	256 KB SRAM clocked at CPU speed
Graphics	UMC UM6618 with 128 KB VRAM displaying 256 out of a possible 32,768 colors at 320x240 resolution. Max sprite size of 256x256. Supports zooming, rotating, and mosaic effects.
Audio	UMC UM6619 outputting stereo 16-track PCM
Cartridge	Max size of 112Mb, with built-in SRAM of 16-64kb
Control pad inputs	Two DE-9M (9-pin male D-connectors) on front of console, identical to those of the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive (though not compatible with Genesis/Mega Drive control pads) Controller IC has identical timing to Super Nintendo/Super Famicom with the exception of the Select and Start are swapped.[3]
A/V Output	RF, composite video/RCA audio. Later models removed the RF output to reduce costs.

 

So yeah, CPU is the same as in Sega Genesis, graphics capabilities seem to be very similar or slightly better than SNES and 16bit PCM audio seems to be the absolute killer ON PAPER. Controllers protocol is even described as identical to SNES. Actually the controllers and actual system look like a wannabe Super Nintendo

So how about the actual games? Well, I could only find a few vids, one of which

 

WELL, I don't know about you but it does NOT look any better than Super Nintendo. Most games look so nitty pitty. In my opinion all of this looks so much meh...... but this is just my take. You spent 10000$ or millions of dollars on the entire set? This is not my business in the first place and I don't care anyway

[DarkKobold | 195]

27 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

A long-time big time collector reaches a celebratory milestone (on a forum that is a spiritual successor to a major collecting site), in the section of the site that is literally dedicated to sharing your big time acquisitions...

 

And, as is usually the case when four figure amounts are involved, it brings out the worst in some people.

Congrats @DarkKobold .  You never owed any explanations to anyone.

Thanks for the kind words! 

TBH, it's really surprising, given the "state of the hobby." When Stadium Events was selling for 2-3k, spending 5k on REBEL would have seemed absurd. Four figures just seems downright reasonable compared to the 25k a loose SE is selling for. I dunno, it's just odd how many games I got for cheap back in 2010-2015 that are now "4-figure games." 4-figures for a game is honestly kind of common now. It's crazy to me. I don't know who these people are that are dropping 2.5k (or more!) on a loose little sammy. Mine was $600, and that was the most I spent on a single game at that time.  Even Power Blade 2 is routinely over four figures! I sold an extra for $300, and that doesn't seem that long ago. 

 

[a3quit4s | 4,127]

@BlackVega Wata is how Bruce Lee pronounced water which is where Wata got its name from. Bruce had some saying about water and how you have to be fluid to fit different situations

[DarkKobold | 195]

1 minute ago, BlackVega said:

I'm sorry what, I can sense there was supposedly some drama going on in this topic but I don't recall anyone being RACIST now?? Now who was supposed to be racist ANYWHERE here???

 

 

[BlackVega | 583]

9 minutes ago, DarkKobold said:

 

Gosh I haven't seen that one and guess who created that topic? This explains EVERYTHING xxxxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDD

[DarkKobold | 195]

23 minutes ago, BlackVega said:

 

Anyway, maybe it is worth getting back on the actual topic about actual system? Because this seems to be such a rabbit hole nobody has touched yet

 

I believe this was posted earlier in this thread, but it's hard to get a deeper, more informative dive than LowScoreBoy's video. 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

9 hours ago, spacepup said:

The unsubstantiated hypotheticals are not helpful.

I don't know what the history is either with you two, this game, or otherwise, and I don't really want to know, but you came into this thread with a very ODD and unusual amount of negativity about his purchase, taking the offense about something that should have been just a simple thread here about someone sharing an accomplishment.  Let this be THE end to it. 

I just received a notification that the op linked to my content from a different page, and some people are also making snarky comments regarding that. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to let it be the end, per your instructions, when people just keep drawing me back in to this thread.

[DarkKobold | 195]

18 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I just received a notification that the op linked to my content from a different page, and some people are also making snarky comments regarding that. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to let it be the end, per your instructions, when people just keep drawing me back in to this thread.

Because you made a good description of the racist origins of WATA? I found that looking on Google for "WATA grading bruce lee" 'It's literally the first result on Google. I didn't know it would notify you. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by DarkKobold

[fcgamer | 4,754]

Just now, DarkKobold said:

Because you made a good description of the racist origins of WATA? I found that looking on Google for "WATA grading bruce lee" I didn't know it would notify you. 

I was told to more or less not post in here. You might feel that 5K+ or four figures is reasonable for games, a lot of people don't. The games like Samson although established by now at a four figures price, at least they're considered the top of the heap. A game for a failed machine, in traditional Chinese, it's just not on the same playability level as Samson, actually as I pointed out early on in the thread, none of the Super A'Can games are, which is why the machine just isn't a great system when compared to the price per cartridge.

If you disagree with that, then that's fine, but you shouldn't let your personal love cloud the reality of the situation. I feel the same with the Sachen library, there's tons of games I think are fun on there, but it's definitely not what would suit most people.

Now I've said my piece, I don't want to have to respond again, as I was told to let things be the end, fifteen posts back.

[Ankos | 467]

59 minutes ago, BlackVega said:

I'm sorry what, I can sense there was supposedly some drama going on in this topic but I don't recall anyone being RACIST now?? Now who was supposed to be racist ANYWHERE here???

Anyway, maybe it is worth getting back on the actual topic about actual system? Because this seems to be such a rabbit hole nobody has touched yet

So what is this system, some Motorola 68000 CPU based system that failed?? How are the games? Are they advanced, fun or enjoyable in any way? Any heavyhitters? Some quick copy paste from wiki reveals this

CPU	Motorola 68000 clocked at 10.738635 MHz
Memory	256 KB SRAM clocked at CPU speed
Graphics	UMC UM6618 with 128 KB VRAM displaying 256 out of a possible 32,768 colors at 320x240 resolution. Max sprite size of 256x256. Supports zooming, rotating, and mosaic effects.
Audio	UMC UM6619 outputting stereo 16-track PCM
Cartridge	Max size of 112Mb, with built-in SRAM of 16-64kb
Control pad inputs	Two DE-9M (9-pin male D-connectors) on front of console, identical to those of the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive (though not compatible with Genesis/Mega Drive control pads) Controller IC has identical timing to Super Nintendo/Super Famicom with the exception of the Select and Start are swapped.[3]
A/V Output	RF, composite video/RCA audio. Later models removed the RF output to reduce costs.

 

So yeah, CPU is the same as in Sega Genesis, graphics capabilities seem to be very similar or slightly better than SNES and 16bit PCM audio seems to be the absolute killer ON PAPER. Controllers protocol is even described as identical to SNES. Actually the controllers and actual system look like a wannabe Super Nintendo

So how about the actual games? Well, I could only find a few vids, one of which

 

WELL, I don't know about you but it does NOT look any better than Super Nintendo. Most games look so nitty pitty. In my opinion all of this looks so much meh...... but this is just my take. You spent 10000$ or millions of dollars on the entire set? This is not my business in the first place and I don't care anyway

Actual game quality on the Super A'can is well known to be a little rough. Not because the system was weak or because the games were particularly bad (in fact I'd say the games are for the most part fine), it's just that the system died so fast that nothing on it really pushed it that far. Also doesn't help that most of the devs for the A'can were making better stuff on other platforms. With that said, it is still fascinating to see a system and games evolve in a different environment than the more well known ones (Japan, North America, and Europe)

Now if you want a Taiwanese system with a bit stronger of a library, maybe check out the IGS PGM

Edited October 6, 2023 by Ankos

[DarkKobold | 195]

33 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I was told to more or less not post in here. You might feel that 5K+ or four figures is reasonable for games, a lot of people don't. The games like Samson although established by now at a four figures price, at least they're considered the top of the heap. A game for a failed machine, in traditional Chinese, it's just not on the same playability level as Samson, actually as I pointed out early on in the thread, none of the Super A'Can games are, which is why the machine just isn't a great system when compared to the price per cartridge.

If you disagree with that, then that's fine, but you shouldn't let your personal love cloud the reality of the situation. I feel the same with the Sachen library, there's tons of games I think are fun on there, but it's definitely not what would suit most people.

Now I've said my piece, I don't want to have to respond again, as I was told to let things be the end, fifteen posts back.

"The reality of the situation" is that the market dictated that price. If I wanted it, I had to pay that price. That's how auctions work. I have yet to see any actual, workable solution from the few naysayers as to what I should have done if I wanted to own the game, but not pay that much. It wasn't even the only 4 figure game, four other games went for over 1k. It may be your opinion that no game on the Super A'can is worth 4 figures, but the market disagrees with you.

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2023/09/fancy-owning-the-rare-taiwanese-flop-super-acan-heres-your-chance

I'm sorry that I quoted your post. My intention was not to draw you back into this thread. I can see if you got that notification, how it would seem like a gut-punch.  Further, I believe you weren't told to stop posting, you were told to stop making accusations against my character, and how this entire thread was a charade to maximize my resale price. 

We could get into a discussion of playability versus price, like Daytona Netlink on Saturn, an essentially unplayable version of a $20 game going for $10k on eBay. Little Samson was just one easy example of 100 games that are now 4-figure games, especially when you consider CIB games. The last Amazing Tater CIB went for 6,800 on eBay. Is that game the star gem of the GameBoy? 

Edited October 6, 2023 by DarkKobold

[fcgamer | 4,754]

33 minutes ago, DarkKobold said:

We could get into a discussion of playability versus price,

There are tons of offerings on the NES and Game Boy, which would make those machines worth owning, which is the point you are failing to acknowledge. Can you honestly recommend the Super A'Can machine to the average gamer, given the price point of the machine and it's software? There are much better choices out there, no matter where you look, which is my point.

[DarkKobold | 195]

5 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

There are tons of offerings on the NES and Game Boy, which would make those machines worth owning, which is the point you are failing to acknowledge. Can you honestly recommend the Super A'Can machine to the average gamer, given the price point of the machine and it's software? There are much better choices out there, no matter where you look, which is my point.

There's a total of one system on eBay, so no, I can't exactly recommend everyone go out and buy it, lololol. But I'm also not recommending people go buy Daytona Netlink either. And whether or not Tetris or Super Mario Land is on GameBoy has literally nothing to do with Amazing Tater's CIB price. 

Again, still waiting on an answer as to what I should have done.