Link | 2,709 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 10 hours ago, Tanooki said: get that guy to make you some copies with no effort on you 87arts, if that's you, and get paid before it's too late. Not gonna happen. Even if zxd did want to do that? at a price anyone would pay, there is no money left after krzy's cut. That's no more workable than the original plan. Which zxd is sticking to and there's no changing his mind. It's pointless to badger him any more about it. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link | 2,709 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 And it is him, he has provided proof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackVega | 583 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 11 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: It's going to end up being on aliexpress in a couple of years for like eight bucks, so just wait for that, or download the ROM for free once it has fallen into the right (or wrong?) hands and been leaked onto the internet; no need to delve into the world of NFTs; you just need to have a little patience. If he doesn't want to sell his NES game to satiate the demand, then someone else will be more than willing to step in and make that money in his place; it's the way of the world... That was my way of saying "I give you a chance" to the creator. If they somehow change their mind and never release the PC version of this game then yes your scenario is more likely to happen first However, can someone recap what the original plan of NFT was in this topic? As far as I understood NFT was supposed to include this: +game's story +game's artwork +permission (I still don't have a clue what this means and it works in this context) NOT included: -source code -ROM -restriction to not create an NES romhack This deal looks super bad in my opinion. Besides, why should a game programmer/designer buy an NFT for this? Can't this stuff be discussed in private with the creator as it usually is? Also, many people expressed their opinion NFTs are shady in general. So, how is this idea even supposed to work ideologically? A big brained programmer is supposed to have very high intelligence and skills to program a game which takes ENORMOUS technical amount of work and patience but somehow the same programmer is supposed to be dumb enough to buy some undefined "who knows how it will work out" NFT under the creator's control? What? This is not how the laws of physics work on this planet Again, why even NFT? Did the creator choose to play into the NFT idea because talking about them is trendy now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link | 2,709 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 hour ago, BlackVega said: this You have the gist of it. The sale of NFTs is OP's idea of a homemade contract, which includes the right to make a game of any genre with his character. Nothing else about the original game is included and the new game can't be for NES. 1 hour ago, BlackVega said: Again, why even NFT? Yes, probably because it's trendy; and that it can be resold by the first buyer to another developer who can also make another game, and he gets a cut of that sale as well. Nobody else thinks it's a good idea or that anybody anywhere will buy in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,493 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Well, krzysiobal's website is being mentioned on a couple of fb groups, and Star Keeper's schematic is on there. http://krzysiobal.com/carts/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,493 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/19/2023 at 7:14 PM, Tanooki said: The $100 cost is just to do it normal, or because of his insane way of trying to guard his cart with extra hoops to jump through? I get the sense that the $100 is to do a normal cartridge without zxd's overengineering. Krzysiobal's cost is $50 for parts and his time, and $50 for zxd as pure profit. At least that's what I got from the post. I suspect that he is pricing it that high to entice zxd, but as @Link said, that's too much for cart only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki | 4,933 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Tulpa said: I get the sense that the $100 is to do a normal cartridge without zxd's overengineering. Krzysiobal's cost is $50 for parts and his time, and $50 for zxd as pure profit. At least that's what I got from the post. I suspect that he is pricing it that high to entice zxd, but as @Link said, that's too much for cart only. I agree, I think we're on the same here with the reasoning, both about the cost split, but also jacking it up to entice. I've been aware of his work for a time on and off ebay, that's some talent there with that schematic and the rest. If this is 87, it seems he's more into NFT insanity than actually making money for the reasons I was blunt about before. This just doesn't add up if he needs money going the worst way possible about it. I would NOT pay $100 either, no one in their right mind should. I was being a borderline dick to make the point Morbis laid out due to the luck of my activities that morning on aliexpress, but yes... I'd rather wait for someone to take that schematic to a chinese (ohhhh the irony) factory and make a $10-12 copy of it for sale. If he'd just be even semi-reasonable and pitched a cart for a reasonable level of profit I'd 100% prefer to give the creator their cut, but I am NOT willing to give a scalper mad cash for it at all and would rather give it to some CCP underling in a repop factory payment first because at least they bothered to try. edit: I've seen it spread around, seen it keep getting spread, right down to the shared schematic. That means both that this site has some eyes on it, but also so does our polish friend due to his abilities. That game I predict has a very good chance of ending up on some chinese MindKids mini PCB sometime this year. No I'm not threatening, just putting it blunt, but he had his chance and screwed around, now someone with capability has figured it out and it has gone public and now is starting to trend. All it will take is him or some chinese pirate entrepreneur to run the risk and it's game on. I think the time for any dreams of NFT are about expired. Edited March 21, 2023 by Tanooki 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackVega | 583 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 How ironic is the fact that while we hear the creator's fears of the game being copied we get the full cartridge diagram right here. Meaning the game has been partially copied already? Maybe someone evil is already copying the entire cartridge ROM and structure at this very moment while we are talking? What can be done to stop it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,493 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BlackVega said: How ironic is the fact that while we hear the creator's fears of the game being copied we get the full cartridge diagram right here. Meaning the game has been partially copied already? Maybe someone evil is already copying the entire cartridge ROM and structure at this very moment while we are talking? What can be done to stop it? It's the general schematic, but it's not the full "Here's how you pirate Star Keeper!" plan. Krzy looked at the circuit board pics had theorized two ways the chips could be used, but without the cart in hand, there's no real way to determine what it's actually doing. And he doesn't have a cart. But anything can happen if someone with enough knowhow got ahold of a cart. That being said, it's still piracy, and if someone in the VGS community outright pirated it, it's not going to go over well. Edited March 21, 2023 by Tulpa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackVega | 583 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Well, now I've read the 1st post again and the author had in mind porting or making other Star Keeper branded games on other consoles mentioning PS4 and Xbox as an example. Well, if the creator had in mind producing games for PS4/PS5/PC or any other modern consoles then maybe just maybe I can see some very little sense here. There is definitely some money involved here. However making Star Keeper games for any retro console up to PS2/Xbox? Hell no......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroX85 | 64 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 So, the game eventually gets pirated and all star keeper copy hell breaks loose. Not much the developer can do. Original owners still have their copies and the gaming community gets to play a nice little NES homebrew game and life goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroX85 | 64 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) @zxdplay will the PC version be exactly like the original ? Or will you change things up a bit to differentiate from the original cartridge release in terms of gameplay? Edited March 21, 2023 by RetroX85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki | 4,933 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) To be fair to this whole what if...? game going on here. I'd say it's more than fair chances, easily over 50/50 at this rate if that set of clear image was supplied to get a schematic, that's the first step in brokering help to mail off said cart to get the job done. Let's be honest, clocks ticking at this rate, and it's more closer to start than end, much like the seconds of the doomsday clock. We're at a few seconds to midnight at this rate. In the end, so what? More copies get made, it doesn't diminish or reduce the value of the true copies. A good example of this, in virtual boy circles there was some hard core babyish protectionism about Hyper FIghting, the toxic garbage made that a mess. Eventually, more PCBs started to get made, and it got out there. SHort term, it smacked the thing in the nose, but after a few years at best, the original box and all, or even loose like mine, get the old value back, and the repop of the homebrew, they get less. The only difference? The PCB. Mine is yellow, they're all yellow, but the new ones are either red or black. And come on Tulpa, VGS is not a gatekeeper on what is or isn't sketchy. That would go right down the hypocrisy train wreck that daily drove around NA for years. We're better than that. What people do off site is their business, not this boards job to vindictively white knight over. Edited March 22, 2023 by Tanooki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrobins | 1,725 Moderator · Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Welp once again this thread has gone off the rails. Let’s keep it relevant to the OP’s topic, and those of you who want to be cheap bastards who encourage piracy, go be someplace else. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,723 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 17 minutes ago, Scrobins said: Welp once again this thread has gone off the rails. Let’s keep it relevant to the OP’s topic, and those of you who want to be cheap bastards who encourage piracy, go be someplace else. Totally agree, we need more NTFs and less begging for reprints in here, authorized or not, the begging over a balloon fight clone is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxdplay | 149 Posted March 22, 2023 Author Share Posted March 22, 2023 12 hours ago, RetroX85 said: @zxdplay will the PC version be exactly like the original ? Or will you change things up a bit to differentiate from the original cartridge release in terms of gameplay? Most of the content is the same, and the design of the game level will be adjusted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroX85 | 64 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, zxdplay said: Most of the content is the same, and the design of the game level will be adjusted Awesome. Hope all goes well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeevan | 8,910 Events Helper · Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, zxdplay said: Most of the content is the same, and the design of the game level will be adjusted I can see this as something I would buy just to support you more than play the game! Depends on the amount of course. Are you planning on releasing on steam or other means, not sure I remember seeing this anywhere unless I just missed it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,493 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 10 hours ago, fcgamer said: Totally agree, we need more NTFs and less begging for reprints in here, authorized or not, the begging over a balloon fight clone is just ridiculous. I agree. More turkey for everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,723 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 5 hours ago, Tulpa said: I agree. More turkey for everyone! Stupid autocorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackVega | 583 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, fcgamer said: Stupid autocorrect You haven't turned it off??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,493 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 hours ago, fcgamer said: Stupid autocorrect 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroX85 | 64 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tulpa said: Or blames others when he can't find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxdplay | 149 Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 16 hours ago, Jeevan said: I can see this as something I would buy just to support you more than play the game! Depends on the amount of course. Are you planning on releasing on steam or other means, not sure I remember seeing this anywhere unless I just missed it. Thank you for your support. Your support is my source of motivation. I am currently developing the PC version of SK and striving to release it on Steam. 4 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth | 166 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 On 3/23/2023 at 12:14 AM, zxdplay said: Thank you for your support. Your support is my source of motivation. I am currently developing the PC version of SK and striving to release it on Steam. Hi all, I have just now gotten caught up with this thread. My only message to @zxdplay would be this: thank you for making a wonderful NES homebrew. I wish you only the best in all things. The rest of what I have to say is directed toward everyone else in this thread, and the thrust of it is that I think we all must agree, a month into this thread, that everyone here is wasting their time and words out of a desire for something to happen that is never going to happen. Every single person on this thread has told the OP that his plan is foolhardy, nonsensical, counterproductive, and just downright logically (perhaps even ethically) bankrupt. Many posters have offered (in great detail) infinitely better plans that would enrich the OP, honor original-edition collectors (though not sure why this is an actual value anyone would hold, given the tacit "buyer-beware" foundational premise behind all high-end collectibles), and most importantly get this great game into more hands. Some here have even offered to directly aid the OP in getting linked up with some of the most talented, successful, and respected NES homebrew publishers in the United States—and this is a group of people, here at VGS, with the sort of connections and know-how to make good on those offers. The OP has categorically rebuffed even single piece of advice that would require deviation from his current plan and ignored every offer of aid or else provided a justification for his view that the aid would be counterproductive or somehow beside the point. Has anyone here ever entered a room with 50 people who make up the desired audience for an idea you have, been told by all 50 people in no uncertain terms that your idea is a disaster, and been as recalcitrant as the OP has been in not changing your mind even a single iota? I would doubt it. It takes a special gumption to ignore so many wise people so gregariously. So please accept that the OP is not interested in doing anything but what he has already decided to do, and trying to convince him otherwise is fruitless. The OP is a non-lawyer who says he cannot afford a lawyer but is offering a deal based on a legal contract that requires the services of a lawyer. The OP wants to sell NFTs to a community whose leading members have told him in no uncertain terms that they (and the community they are part of, broadly writ) are anti-NFT. The OP has said that he is concerned most about homebrew gamers, but has concocted a plan that would enrich him without him doing any work, protect wealthy collectors, and do absolutely nothing for gamers or bring gamers any closer to what they want: to be able to play a very specific NES homebrew. When the OP is told that even collectors would be fine with a new release of the game, the OP does not budge. When the OP is told by his prospective IP fan base that no one cares about the IP but only the game itself, the OP does not budge. When the OP is given examples of others who simultaneously made money, protected first-edition collectors, and shared their games with the world by working with (e.g.) LRG, Mega Cat, or VGS, the OP does not budge. When the OP is told that the transnational and unprecedented (not in a good way, as the OP supposes) nature of this transaction alone would make it unlikely that anyone would interested in it, or that the Star Keeper IP (not the game itself) is so derivative that it lacks value, or that NFTs are increasingly despised among U.S. gamers, or that nothing the OP says he wants to do actually honors the values that he says he has, the OP does not budge. It is over. Let the OP do what he wants. It is clear to me and I think to others that—sadly—this ends with the game being pirated somehow, perhaps first to FC and then to the NES, and that the reason for this is because the OP is foreclosing the many roads that would lead to a different outcome while claiming to fear piracy above all else. And candidly, the fear of piracy expressed here causes me to feel that the OP does not understand this community at all. This is a community that wants to own games, not pirate them, and those who want to pirate them are not really part of the community. What this means is that even were the game pirated, it would still sell a ton of copies to legitimate non-pirating buyers, as is evidenced by the many successful releases by LRG, Mega Cat, and VGS (heck, LRG regularly releases, with great success, NES titles that anyone could emulate at any time; again, this is a community that wants to buy and play and collect games, not pirate and emulate them). Anyway, this is my two cents, and I felt compelled to offer it as this thread has gotten progressively more depressing. The right answer has been given to the OP over and over and over and over again, but either stubbornness, disingenuousness (as to motive), or some unstated mystery is making a sensible resolution of this situation impossible. Only a nonsensical, embarrassing NFT sale that will either never happen or be a disaster is left, and for that reason, I find myself not wanting to follow this conversation anymore. We cannot save people from their own foolhardiness. We should try—and folks here did try—but I think that effort has to come to an end at some point, and it does seem (from the slowing down of this thread) that we have arrived at that point. And I say all this as the video game journalist who ranked Star Keeper as one of the best NES homebrews ever, after playing 1,000+ NES homebrews. So if the OP has lost me, he probably should have lost all of us by now. S. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts