About the Explanation of Development Authorization for Star Keeper Branch Version

[Jeevan | 8,910]

27 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

At this point you would really give this person money without a guarantee of anything in return after all this?

does indiegogo payout before the project is done?  Also, 5 or 10 bux isn't much for a rom, just sayin'

[a3quit4s | 4,096]

10 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

does indiegogo payout before the project is done?  Also, 5 or 10 bux isn't much for a rom, just sayin'

Indeed but I think I’d wait for at least a playable demo of Star Keeper running on PC for a couple levels or maybe like 10 minutes

[Jeevan | 8,910]

2 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Indeed but I think I’d wait for at least a playable demo of Star Keeper running on PC for a couple levels or maybe like 10 minutes

i mean, if there is a chance my money would be returned to me, i agree, but if there isn't then i am with you, demo first then buy the preorder or whatever.

[Scrobins | 1,725]

With Indiegogo the money goes through right when you pledge, so if the campaign fails you need to badger the creator to get your money back.

[Jeevan | 8,910]

28 minutes ago, Scrobins said:

With Indiegogo the money goes through right when you pledge, so if the campaign fails you need to badger the creator to get your money back.

oof

well if it was 5 bux, i guess i could do that, but sounds like definite verification needs to be established.  I wouldn't wanna give some sly 16 y/o my 5 bux

[RetroX85 | 64]

2 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

At this point you would really give this person money without a guarantee of anything in return after all this?

Assuming we dont go the NFT route, I'd take a risk at other venues. I have zero interest in NFTs.

[Tanooki | 4,931]

I don't know how to make it any more clear for myself and I think most others here.

We do not want NFT
We will not buy a NFT

We will happily buy your game from you for a fair price, if you re-issue it yourself or with the help of others.
We will happily buy it if you prove you really are 87arts too.

This is not unreasonable, and it is overly simple, especially proving who you are as that costs nothing.

 

We're trying to reason with you.  We know you are using a translation app so some of it may be getting lost.  This is why I try and keep these sentences simple.  Please re-issue Starkeeper on Famicom, NES, Steam/GoG(PC), and mobile (iOS/Android) if you really want to make money.  NFTs are niche.  Most people will not buy a NFT.  Far less will buy yours tied to a game few knows even exists.  You speak of risk, but you're taking the riskiest way to do it, not the easiest.  Why?

Again we get what you're trying to do.  We do not want NFTs.  We want to play your game.

[Link | 2,709]

14 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

I don't know how to make it any more clear for myself and I think most others here.

We do not want NFT
We will not buy a NFT

We will happily buy your game from you for a fair price, if you re-issue it yourself or with the help of others.
We will happily buy it if you prove you really are 87arts too.

This is not unreasonable, and it is overly simple, especially proving who you are as that costs nothing.

 

We're trying to reason with you.  We know you are using a translation app so some of it may be getting lost.  This is why I try and keep these sentences simple.  Please re-issue Starkeeper on Famicom, NES, Steam/GoG(PC), and mobile (iOS/Android) if you really want to make money.  NFTs are niche.  Most people will not buy a NFT.  Far less will buy yours tied to a game few knows even exists.  You speak of risk, but you're taking the riskiest way to do it, not the easiest.  Why?

Again we get what you're trying to do.  We do not want NFTs.  We want to play your game.

We want to buy and play his game. Yes.

I just want to clarify that he's not trying to sell NFTs to all of us. He is trying to sell NFTs to a few people, who then supposedly with the license granted through agreement thereby, will someday make other Starkeeper games.

@zxdplay, I believe we do understand that perfectly. But those other games are not your games / the games we want to play. 

9 hours ago, Scrobins said:

you need to confirm your identity to us in some meaningful way.

And by now, this is a really good point. 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

33 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

I don't know how to make it any more clear for myself and I think most others here.

We do not want NFT
We will not buy a NFT

We will happily buy your game from you for a fair price, if you re-issue it yourself or with the help of others.
We will happily buy it if you prove you really are 87arts too.

This is not unreasonable, and it is overly simple, especially proving who you are as that costs nothing.

 

We're trying to reason with you.  We know you are using a translation app so some of it may be getting lost.  This is why I try and keep these sentences simple.  Please re-issue Starkeeper on Famicom, NES, Steam/GoG(PC), and mobile (iOS/Android) if you really want to make money.  NFTs are niche.  Most people will not buy a NFT.  Far less will buy yours tied to a game few knows even exists.  You speak of risk, but you're taking the riskiest way to do it, not the easiest.  Why?

Again we get what you're trying to do.  We do not want NFTs.  We want to play your game.

We all get that.  What we all don't seem to get is that we aren't the target audience of OP's NFT.  So, for the time being, no matter how many of us wail, or how loudly, OP isn't going to budge, because we aren't the target audience of his attempts to generating capital.

Personally, I agree with you that the NFT is a bad idea, is ill targeted, and unlikely to generate any real revenue, nor any tangible results.  However, OP isn't convinced of this, so you're just wasting your own and everyone else's time with diatribe after diatribe stating the exact same points over and over.  He gets it.  We get it.  Let's let it be and see what happens at this point.  The dead horse is basically a light stain on the floor situated inside of a shallow hole that's been beaten into it.

At this point, you're not reasoning, you're basically alternating between almost threatening and begging, neither of which is going to sway OP from his desired goal for a quick cash infusion to better whatever situation he's in.  If OP really is 87Arts, then perhaps we'll see some sort of actual Star Keeper sequel should this scheme succeed, or maybe even a port or re-release of the original game so that many more people can be exposed to it.  However, this isn't guaranteed per OP's own statements specifically and categorically denying any sort of re-release of the original game.  This move isn't for the fans, it's for OP, whoever he is.

Based on some points that @Scrobins made (and that I had thought but left unsaid), perhaps it would be a good idea for someone in the thread who originally purchased the first one from 87Arts to dig back into their emails, find the original email confirmation/receipt/whatever, and send an email to that address and see if they get a response.  Given the amount of interest in the original game and direct continuations of it, it certainly wouldn't hurt anyone on either side of this discussion to know for a fact whether 87Arts is actually who we've been speaking to or not, and presumably only he would have access to that original email address.  I know that won't make anyone feel better about NFTs, but at least it might inspire some more hope for additional, direct sequel projects should OP be proven to be exactly who they're claiming they are.

[Scrobins | 1,725]

I agree with the sentiment that the NFTs are not geared toward us, but there is value as members of the homebrew community in pointing out that the dev scene is more active than it was when Star Keeper came out and from what I’ve seen, are good indications that the NFTs won’t work with the target audience.

Devs are most excited about their own projects and many of them are too slammed to take on other projects, even at the prospect of direct payment or a share of future profits. Therefore I believe that the idea of devs buying an NFT dubiously connected to a very one-sided contract to make a hack of a game that they wouldn’t even the get the source code to play with would appeal to them. Why pay money to get so little when they can do their own Star Keeper-inspired game without paying a dime? Look at Matt Hughson’s latest project, which is his style and skill applied to a SMB1 type of game. Or Gradual Games’ Trophy, his love letter to Mega Man.

I’m sorry but no one is going to enrich you for what amounts to little more than permission to do something they can already do for free.

[RetroX85 | 64]

@zxdplay  is there any way you could prove to us that you are the legit developer of 'Star Keeper? 

Perhaps provide us with some pictures of your work on Star Keeper that has never been seen Or even share something that would legitimately tie you to the development of Star Keeper.

I know this seems a bit harsh but we have a difficult time going along with the whole 'NFT license' thing as is. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

11 hours ago, Scrobins said:

Therefore I believe that the idea of devs buying an NFT dubiously connected to a very one-sided contract to make a hack of a game that they wouldn’t even get the source code to play with would appeal to them.

I believe this is the main issue right here.  Reading between the lines in all of @zxdplay's posts, and considering the incredible lengths he went to with making a custom mapper and custom hardware for Star Keeper, I believe that preventing pirate copies of his original game is the primary concern for him, even trumping his desire to make more money off of the brand.

Looking at everything he has written, the common thread is that he does not want the source code or the ROM released in any form at all, due to his fear of piracy.  If he puts it on Steam: someone hacks the emulator shell and his game is all over the net; if he gives up the source code or ROM to LRG or VGS for a re-release compatible with a more common mapper, same deal; if he gives up those assets to an NFT purchaser and future branch-game developer: same fear as well.  And the truth of it all is that he's right.

So here's the endgame, @zxdplay - you have two options:

1 - Re-release your game in some form, resulting in your game getting pirated, but you getting LOTS OF MONEY, or
2 - Keep your game bottled up and hidden for all eternity, resulting in your game (probably) not getting pirated for a while, but you make NO MONEY.

So what's it going to be?  And by the way, Nintendo and the big boys are able to make money hand over fist in spite of all their games getting continuously pirated over and over again; just something to think about...

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Dr. Morbis

[Tanooki | 4,931]

Welp then I'll add one last seemingly bitter, vindictive, and trolling diatribe.  Can't wait to see your game pirated, I'll buy star keeper from that guy(or girl) who does it.  They'll deserve the revenue because at least they listen to people who actually want to play the thing.

If we're not the target audience, why the hell even show up here when no one is going to drop any money on a NFT?  This isn't exactly the center of the retro gaming world where this entire spiel about how it works is going to help it happen.  For here, that's a dead end.  Here, people just want to play, not buy digital fairy dust to get the nebulous rights to make some licensed spinoff from someone who can't even confirm their identity but feels comfortable asking for large sums of money.  Might as well just write a blank check to a time share.

[Gloves | 11,771]

3 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

This isn't exactly the center of the retro gaming world

[zxdplay | 149]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:40 AM, Tanooki said:

 I have seen so many of them either not go funded, or the person asking for they money doesn't follow through or changes things so people who paid feel betrayed and stolen from.

 

@Tanooki

If I launch a crowdfunding campaign, I guarantee that the situations listed above will not happen on Star Keeper.

[Gloves | 11,771]

Just now, zxdplay said:

@Tanooki

If I launch a crowdfunding campaign, I guarantee that the situations listed above will not happen on Star Keeper.

If you launch a crowdfunding campaign I am confident it'll be successful, and I'd buy into it personally.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Is that where we are at now, that people are openly hoping for a prized game from someone in the community to get pirated? 
 

L-O-L

[a3quit4s | 4,096]

54 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Is that where we are at now, that people are openly hoping for a prized game from someone in the community to get pirated? 
 

L-O-L

IMO if there was really that much interest in Star Keeper it would have already been pirated. I was planning on buying the IP at a loss; I mean you’ve gotta pay someone what $30-$50 an hour to get Star Keeper running on modern technology at who knows how many hours given the technical debt of the software, you need a graphics person, you’ve gotta press boxes, PCBs, carts, instructions or get someone to do it for you with them taking a slice, and the initial money to buy the IP from someone who thinks they have Super Mario. Then sell a digital copy at $10/piece or a CIB at $60 to which you need to recoup your initial investment while selling maybe 1,000 copies. 
 

It’s better if he does most of it himself to cut a bunch of costs and I’m happy he is at least now considering that route; given he is the real 87arts, because I’m seeing that question being dodged a lot.  

Edited March 14, 2023 by a3quit4s

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

10 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

IMO if there was really that much interest in Star Keeper it would have already been pirated. I was planning on buying the IP at a loss; I mean you’ve gotta pay someone what $30-$50 an hour to get Star Keeper running on modern technology at who knows how many hours given the technical debt of the software, you need a graphics person, you’ve gotta press boxes, PCBs, carts, instructions or get someone to do it for you with them taking a slice, and the initial money to buy the IP from someone who thinks they have Super Mario. Then sell a digital copy at $10/piece or a CIB at $60 to which you need to recoup your initial investment while selling maybe 1,000 copies. 
 

It’s better if he does most of it himself to cut a bunch of costs and I’m happy he is at least now considering that route; given he is the real 87arts, because I’m seeing that question being dodged a lot.  

Im starting to imagine they arent who they say they are too. 
 

Anyways, isnt it a custom mapper? I have a suspicion its not as easy as something else or it would have been done already. 

[a3quit4s | 4,096]

6 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Im starting to imagine they arent who they say they are too. 
 

Anyways, isnt it a custom mapper? I have a suspicion its not as easy as something else or it would have been done already. 

Customer mapper is what he said, some of the devs around here said that isn’t a huge issue. Who knows how many other cobwebs there are once you get into it though. 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

5 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Customer mapper is what he said, some of the devs around here said that isn’t a huge issue. Who knows how many other cobwebs there are once you get into it though. 

Since its not a big deal I wonder why it hasn’t been done yet. Because the first person to do it is gonna make a ton of money (through nefarious means of course)

[Link | 2,709]

10 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Since its not a big deal I wonder why it hasn’t been done yet. Because the first person to do it is gonna make a ton of money (through nefarious means of course)

My guess would be nobody who has the means is that unscrupulous. Especially among the relatively small pool of people who got a copy in first or second sale. And if somebody could dump it and wanted to put it out there, I doubt they could make money on it despite Tanooki's wishes. You'd get called out on that pretty quick, I think. Pirate ROM is another story but there's no money in that, only perceived glory. 

[Jeevan | 8,910]

20 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Since its not a big deal I wonder why it hasn’t been done yet. Because the first person to do it is gonna make a ton of money (through nefarious means of course)

 

4 minutes ago, Link said:

My guess would be nobody who has the means is that unscrupulous. Especially among the relatively small pool of people who got a copy in first or second sale. And if somebody could dump it and wanted to put it out there, I doubt they could make money on it despite Tanooki's wishes. You'd get called out on that pretty quick, I think. Pirate ROM is another story but there's no money in that, only perceived glory. 

My guess, as link said, that people actually respect the game/dev.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

4 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

 

My guess, as link said, that people actually respect the game/dev.

While I hope thats the reason, its seems unlikely to me. China is known for having zero respect for IP, and far larger companies are knocked off for profit regularly. 
 

I understand this is niche though, and relatively “unknown”

[Jeevan | 8,910]

4 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

While I hope thats the reason, its seems unlikely to me. China is known for having zero respect for IP, and far larger companies are knocked off for profit regularly. 
 

I understand this is niche though, and relatively “unknown”

That is very true!  Hopefully no one in china can figure it out .  OR......they just now seen it was selling for a lot and maybe eventually it will happen, who really knows at this point.  Pretty sure China is one of the countries, no disrespect to anyone from there, that has filters on the nets if i am not mistaken.