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About the Explanation of Development Authorization for Star Keeper Branch Version


zxdplay

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13 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I had messaged the OP about possibly licensing to do authorized FC versions. 😉

2 months before they joined? Seems legit. Guess that info never made it into that post then. 
 

Ill give up on bringing it up though. Obviously no one cares but me, and I don’t even really care. I too don’t want to see anything pirated, especially such a good game. 

Edited by MrWunderful
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7 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

2 months before they joined? Seems legit. Guess that info never made it into that post then. 

Not sure how you calculate January 16 to February 28 as being two months. 

If I had wanted to make unauthorized copies, that game would have been dumped and reproed by now. As I mentioned earlier, as someone who did indeed have some of his games illegally dumped, it sucks terribly, and the feeling extends beyond any sort of monetary considerations. I have enough respect for others in the industry to buy the indie / homebrew games I'm interested in, back the KickStarter projects that sound fascinating (I'm still waiting for Project Blue on Famicom btw, I could swear I backed that pre-Covid times), write about and promote the games I enjoy. 

You always like to think the worst, Cory, but the problem is you think too much. Relax, take a break, and start looking at the reality of things for once.

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52 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

You always like to think the worst, Cory, but the problem is you think too much. Relax, take a break, and start looking at the reality of things for once.

IDK, from the post he linked the reality of things sure seems like a veiled message that you'll be bootlegging the game and releasing Famicom copies into the wild. Why would your deal with the original developer involve purchasing a copy of the game to get the necessary data to make re-releases? If you were making authorized copies of the game, I would assume he would support you by giving you the information necessary to make them, not say "if you buy the game and figure it out on your own, you can make them"

IDK, seems like a reasonable assumption on @MrWunderful's part from an outsider's perspective.

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I don't agree with that reading it, but I can see if you wanted to think the worst of him to easily draw that conclusion and well if the shoe fits.

It was a question, even if snarky, but that was no veiled threat.  The point was pretty clear, the game is out there, and so is the technology to read the chips, dump the chips, if needed recreate any special mapper to make this thing go.  Given how the value has gone nuts on the game it's all the more reason for a seedy east asian or european entrepreneur to take a stab at offering this up and there would be nothing anyone could do about it.  In the end, if it cost someone a few K to buy the game and buy the pieces needed around what their own supplies already account for to make this happen, it can and will happen.

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20 minutes ago, Khromak said:

IDK, from the post he linked the reality of things sure seems like a veiled message that you'll be bootlegging the game and releasing Famicom copies into the wild. Why would your deal with the original developer involve purchasing a copy of the game to get the necessary data to make re-releases? If you were making authorized copies of the game, I would assume he would support you by giving you the information necessary to make them, not say "if you buy the game and figure it out on your own, you can make them"

IDK, seems like a reasonable assumption on @MrWunderful's part from an outsider's perspective.

Right, but there's a few problems with the assumptions, even if we ignore the fact that @MrWunderful has some sort of creepy stalker crush on me ❤️

If one looks back to me purchasing the game in the first place, in one of the threads that was tracking sales on ebay, I threw out an offer one evening as I had been drinking. I woke up the next morning with a DM from a seller, and as I'm the sort of person who takes the integrity of transactions seriously, I put my money where my mouth was, and then bought the game. A few months later the game shot up in price, consider it foresight of the most debauched kind, perhaps?

Looking back through this thread, one of the reasons the OP suggests for not rereleasing the game is due to trouble reproducing it. I can't be arsed to go back and get a quote, but no, it very much seemed as though the bolded part above would not occur, whatever that means, though I'm not going to go back through 15 pages of text to dig up a quote. If someone wants to, go for it, hopefully you then sign up for a game of VGS WW afterwards.

Finally, what need for killing my investment of the game by releasing fakes? And where are these fakes? I didn't even fire my copy of the game up until tonight, that's how low of a priority this is on my day to day activities of life.

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OK, I have no idea what the games you've developed are called, but let's say hypothetically I posted in my pick-ups thread I said this:

Just bought *FCGamer's homebrew*, I'll get mine in a few weeks. Wouldn't it be something if NES versions suddenly appeared for sale?

Would you not find that A LITTLE BIT antagonistic?

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Just now, Khromak said:

OK, I have no idea what the games you've developed are called, but let's say hypothetically I posted in my pick-ups thread I said this:

Just bought *FCGamer's homebrew*, I'll get mine in a few weeks. Wouldn't it be something if NES versions suddenly appeared for sale?

Would you not find that A LITTLE BIT antagonistic?

I'd feel flattered. I already stated publicly and previously that the thing I hated about the guy buying my games to dump them was that it was just ending up as part of a ROM set, whereas I actually hoped people would play the games and analyze them, enjoy them, hate them, etc. An entry in a ROM set doesn't really do that, but if a company in China started bootlegging the games I made, I'd order several, give them out to friends, and have a story to tell. I still owe you some snacks, btw, I'll solder you a few of my carts too when I send that out.

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OK sorry my wording wasn't correct.

"Would you not find that A LITTLE BIT of a hint that I'm planning to make bootleg copies of the game, using the copy I just purchased"?

Whether you would be flattered or not, or whether that's something you would personally not like, it's still the implication of the post.

Taking it to the next logical step: if 87arts doesn't want someone to produce new copies of his game, this would be antagonistic to him, even if you would be thrilled with someone reproducing your game in a new format.

Do you get it yet?

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20 minutes ago, Khromak said:

OK sorry my wording wasn't correct.

"Would you not find that A LITTLE BIT of a hint that I'm planning to make bootleg copies of the game, using the copy I just purchased"?

Whether you would be flattered or not, or whether that's something you would personally not like, it's still the implication of the post.

Taking it to the next logical step: if 87arts doesn't want someone to produce new copies of his game, this would be antagonistic to him, even if you would be thrilled with someone reproducing your game in a new format.

Do you get it yet?

I reached out to the author about licensing to make copies of the game - he was not interested. I told him I would be glad to discuss it with him in Chinese, to clear up any potential misunderstandings / difficulties, and it was still a no-go.

At the end of the day, I reached out to the author and he was not interested in proceeding forward with that. Others also reached out and he was also not interested in proceeding with their offers, though should he change his mind, I am sure someone would be willing to assist. 

Regarding the bolded section, not really, no. We are all coexisting on an internet forum and with few exceptions, we don't know each other IRL. Furthermore, whilst the majority of the users are likely from North America, some aren't. Even in terms of language, while the assumption is made that most here is a native English speaker, perhaps that's assuming a bit too much. 

Years ago I came to realize the art of writing and interpretation. Interpretation is fun, ambiguity is great. In the end, people believe what they want to believe, in a world that they create based upon their own perspectives. I challenge people to go against the knee-jerk reactions and dig a little deeper. Would it even make sense for me to depreciate an accidental investment? Let's take a look at some figures.

What did the game last sell for? $1500? $2000? How much would a person be willing to pay for a CIB bootleg, or even a loose bootleg? What about the cost of fabricating PCBs, paying someone to design PCBS and dump the game? Printing costs? Even the cost for the cartridge I originally bought. It would be a huge time sink and a loss of money as well, sadly I'm not rich compared to some of the folks on here. It doesn't even make sense.

 

edit: Per @Scrobins request, any more discussion on this particular issue with me, please DM me and I'll be happy to discuss, or start another thread and we can discuss it there too. 

Edited by fcgamer
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10 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

This whole topic started out with good intentions and just devolved into a dumpster fire lol

I feel strongly that that was inevitable the moment that NFTs entered the discussion as the sole path forward for the Star Keeper IP, regardless of how well intentioned they were.  Double those feelings each time OP seems like they have skipped, dodged, or outright ignored public requests/calls for verification of their claimed identity (especially since there are at least one or two  VGS members who have stated they are legitimately willing to invest in the NFT scheme).

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56 minutes ago, Link said:

You offered a generous, perfectly workable, and simpler solution, and it was completely ignored 🤷‍♀️ Why is that? 

We conversed over DMs, he was insistent on the NFT route so I wished him the best of luck. I’m not sure how seriously he took the offer but I tried at least. Personally I just wanted to get the original Star Keeper into the hands of more players and would have expected to lose money on the deal. I told him I thought he and Star Keeper went together which is why I didn’t flinch to keep 87arts on the cover as creator and developer and offered him exclusive rights on a sequel should he choose to pursue it. 
 

I gave it my best lol

Edited by a3quit4s
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1 hour ago, a3quit4s said:

We conversed over DMs, he was insistent on the NFT route so I wished him the best of luck. I’m not sure how seriously he took the offer but I tried at least. Personally I just wanted to get the original Star Keeper into the hands of more players and would have expected to lose money on the deal. I told him I thought he and Star Keeper went together which is why I didn’t flinch to keep 87arts on the cover as creator and developer and offered him exclusive rights on a sequel should he choose to pursue it. 
 

I gave it my best lol

Ok, so not totally ignored, but it sounds like he didn't really consider it at all. Did he have a counterproposal, e.g. for a higher amount, or was it just NFT+branch games or nothing? Did he initiate the DMs? 

The whole plan he's put forth is just so convoluted and, imo, not realistic or at the very best too optimistic. Sad reality, if he is genuine about it all. 

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2 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

Double those feelings each time OP seems like they have skipped, dodged, or outright ignored public requests/calls for verification of their claimed identity

I didn't dodge verifying my real identity, I just don't know how to verify it.

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A branch game, or anything using existing IP in exactly one iteration, is something you contract out to another dev that you pay to create a product which you sell. Nintendo paid Retro to make Metroid Prime. Not the other way around. Can anyone think of an example where money went the other way? I'd bring up the franchise restaurant analogy again. But there are big, fundamental differences in what is offered here. 

I'm sorry to say as another sad reality, no one will do this. 

Edited by Link
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14 minutes ago, Link said:

A branch game, or anything using existing IP in exactly one iteration, is something you contract out to another dev that you pay to create a product which you sell. Nintendo paid Retro to make Metroid Prime. Not the other way around. Can anyone think of an example where money went the other way? I'd bring up the franchise restaurant analogy again. But there are big, fundamental differences in what is offered here. 

I'm sorry to say as another sad reality, no one will do this. 

'Authorization' and 'outsourcing' are two concepts

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30 minutes ago, zxdplay said:

image.png.dc195131a75e5d504e7383fc0e4007e1.png

这是剩下的封面与说明书,说明书没保存好,钉子生锈了

This is the rest of the cover and instructions. The instructions are not well preserved, and the nails are rusty

I think this is good enough proof for me! 

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6 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I finally got around to playing this game yesterday. There's some interesting bits, but it's a pretty ordinary game. If it weren't for the lore, this one would honestly be forgotten. 

Sell your copy to Tanooki! He wants to play it. 🙂

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