About the Explanation of Development Authorization for Star Keeper Branch Version

[Link | 2,709]

2 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

We do it all the time!

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramset-2-1-2-in-Drive-Pins-with-Washers-100-Pack-00809/100024795?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D25H-025_012_PNEUM_FAST-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-PneumaticFasteners_PMAX&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D25H-025_012_PNEUM_FAST-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-PneumaticFasteners_PMAX-71700000105990231--&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UfDj3AYfu8bdmnSM78hEeC07&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UfDj3AYfu8bdmnSM78hEeC07&gclid=CjwKCAjw_MqgBhAGEiwAnYOAem7DsqHX9yb5xBTGNVQYIgXlYu9L8dMuOuYylf4Q1WavTGZZ2a0jWBoC0roQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

A dirty URL is a sign of a sick mind, ftfy

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramset-2-1-2-in-Drive-Pins-with-Washers-100-Pack-00809/100024795

[krzysiobal | 3]

Hello. I come here to find out more info about this game and instead, I found this topic. I am a little shocked about it. I don't know what is NFT and probably don't event want to know.

This is just a damn simple game and you are trying protect it against copying just like it would be a top secret spacecraft engine. There has always been people who were trying to download and play something for free and there were always people who wanted to buy everything, no no matter of the price or quality. Your goal should be to find a balance and target the people in the middle, who just want to pay fair price and play.

Anyway, I am not going to express my personal thoughts about it anymore. I come here with a propositon for you.
I am electronic engineer and  programmer, I have been doing and selling carts for a long of time, all manually produced, all by myself. I can offer you my help - I can start making and selling cartridges with your game. You don't need to invest anything, no weird agreements. My proposition is simple - I can do and sell each cartridge for 100$ (with shipping included). Half of that (50$) goes to me to cover my timea and materials needed to built it. Of course you are creator of this game, so you should get your provision from each sold unit. No idea what's are your expectations, but to make it simple and fair, I recommend the same amount - 50$ goes for you. So I will sell every cartridge  (72pin NES or 60pin FAMICOM version) for 100$ - half of it goes to me, half to you. Simple gentlemen agreement. I would prefer just ordinary game, with no box, no manuals as it is extra effort. I can start doing it in a week or so, with quantity up to 3-5 pieces/day. My PCBS are compatible with every console, and what's more import - they are safe, have proper voltage levels on the signal lines.

Now some talk about the cartridge itself - I analyzed the PCBs, it looks like there is dual port ram and STM32 microcontroller and of course regular EPROM. Because I don't have physical access to the cartridge, I don't know exactly what is going on. Either

a) the full logic of game is executed by the STM32 and the dual port ram is just a bridge between it and NES so that the console can display whatever video frame the STM32 is generating. EPROM consists only of code that read backs joypad and output sound samples

or b) STM32 is just used for supplying pattern and name tables and the game code is stored in EPROM

For me, this idea of using extra microcontroller+dual port ram just to make it hard to reverse enginner is crazy, complicates the design and makes it harder and more expensive to manufacture. If you could abandon your crazy idea and make the game available in simple NES format, my above proposition is still open. If not, I will need to recalculate the costs.

I have reverse engineered hundreds of cartridges - you can check my page:

http://krzysiobal.com/carts

My rev-en schematic of your cartridge:

https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6375995300_1679255287.png

Edited March 19, 2023 by krzysiobal

[RetroX85 | 64]

13 minutes ago, krzysiobal said:

Hello. I come here to find out more info about this game and instead, I found this topic. I am a little shocked about it. I don't know what is NFT and probably don't event want to know.

This is just a damn simple game and you are trying protect it against copying just like it would be a top secret spacecraft engine. There has always been people who were trying to download and play something for free and there were always people who wanted to buy everything, no no matter of the price or quality. Your goal should be to find a balance and target the people in the middle, who just want to pay fair price and play.

Anyway, I am not going to express my personal thoughts about it anymore. I come here with a propositon for you.
I am electronic engineer and  programmer, I have been doing and selling carts for a long of time, all manually produced, all by myself. I can offer you my help - I can start making and selling cartridges with your game. You don't need to invest anything, no weird agreements. My proposition is simple - I can do and sell each cartridge for 100$ (with shipping included). Half of that (50$) goes to me to cover my timea and materials needed to built it. Of course you are creator of this game, so you should get your provision from each sold unit. No idea what's are your expectations, but to make it simple and fair, I recommend the same amount - 50$ goes for you. So I will sell every cartridge  (72pin NES or 60pin FAMICOM version) for 100$ - half of it goes to me, half to you. Simple gentlemen agreement. I would prefer just ordinary game, with box, no manuals as it is extra effort. I can start doing it in a week or so.

Now some talk about the cartridge itself - I analyzed the PCBs, it looks like there is dual port ram and STM32 microcontroller and of course regular EPROM. Because I don't have physical access to the cartridge, I don't know exactly what is going on. Either

a) the full logic of game is executed by the STM32 and the dual port ram is just a bridge between it and NES so that the console can display whatever video frame the STM32 is generating. EPROM consists only of code that read backs joypad and output sound samples

or b) STM32 is just used for supplying pattern and name tables and the game code is stored in EPROM

For me, this idea of using extra microcontroller+dual port ram just to make it hard to reverse enginner is crazy, complicates the design and makes it harder and more expensive to manufacture. If you could abandon your crazy idea and make the game available in simple NES format, my above proposition is still open. If not, I will need to recalculate the costs.

I have reverse engineered hundreds of cartridges - you can check my page:

http://krzysiobal.com/carts

My rev-en schematic of your cartridge:

https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6375995300_1679255287.png

I believe @zxdplay is currently trying to port Star Keeper to PC, Which is awesome.  More people will finally get a chance to play this game if he is successful with it.

[Link | 2,709]

33 minutes ago, krzysiobal said:

100$ - half of it goes to me, half to you. Simple gentlemen agreement. I would prefer just ordinary game, with no box, no manuals as it is extra effort.

That price is a stretch with box and manual. Without them, no way. 

[Jeevan | 8,910]

7 minutes ago, Link said:

That price is a stretch with box and manual. Without them, no way. 

agreed, i don't even want to play it, but i would buy it hoping the value goes up .  I sure as hell wouldn't pay $100 for it without all the bells and whistles, nor would i pay that for a CIB, better cough up some extras

[BlackVega | 583]

33 minutes ago, krzysiobal said:

Now some talk about the cartridge itself - I analyzed the PCBs

This folk reversed engineered the whole cart just by looking at the photos. What a master!

35 minutes ago, krzysiobal said:

This is just a damn simple game and you are trying protect it against copying just like it would be a top secret spacecraft engine. There has always been people who were trying to download and play something for free and there were always people who wanted to buy everything, no no matter of the price or quality. Your goal should be to find a balance and target the people in the middle, who just want to pay fair price and play.

Can't agree more. Not only that but the creator even refuses to produce more cartridges because for the fact other eager people bought existing used cartridges from other people for very high cash on ebay and rereleasing a game for a cheaper price would be unfair for them. Uh oh really like this is of any sort relevant. Whatever people do this is their personal business and no one can stop them from doing that. If the creator produces another batch of cartridges and sells them then how is this unfair to anyone? As long as there is demand producing more cartridges will benefit EVERYONE

Yes in my opinion this topic has turned into some sort of an elitist fanboy discussion project. The creator tries to push it like the best thing ever on the NES created in the last 10 years but you know what? This topic is the 1st time I've ever heard of this game in my life. Is this game really that awesome? Maybe. Just produce more cartridges or sell me the ROM. Just give me a chance

[RetroX85 | 64]

4 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

agreed, i don't even want to play it, but i would buy it hoping the value goes up .  I sure as hell wouldn't pay $100 for it without all the bells and whistles, nor would i pay that for a CIB, better cough up some extras

Lol  ya , a star keeper keychain, poster and cd soundtrack. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by RetroX85

[Tulpa | 3,491]

1 hour ago, BlackVega said:

If the creator produces another batch of cartridges and sells them then how is this unfair to anyone?

That's what we suggested earlier, and mentioned that you can always alter the package, cart, and/or title screen to distinguish them from the first run. No one who owns one currently seems to have any issues with that.

1 hour ago, BlackVega said:

Is this game really that awesome?

It's good. Definitely more polished and deeper than your run-of-the-mill NES homebrew. Though maybe not the best homebrew. A lot of good ones have also come out since Star Keeper's release.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

That new post by krzysiobal is just more evidence to me that the game is going to be pirated at some point, making the creator's worst fears come true and rendering all of the hard work he did to prevent the bootlegging of his game utterly moot.  It's not an if, it's a when.

  @zxdplay, why don't you get on board with someone and make the NES game available again and profit off of your own work while you still can?   No dice, huh?  What a drag...

[Tanooki | 4,932]

@krzysiobal Thanks for stopping by here.  I've been aware of your work for some time on ebay and that website itself too, just seeing those carts, didn't associate it at first until I was made aware of the connection.  Your work is impeccable.

The $100 cost is just to do it normal, or because of his insane way of trying to guard his cart with extra hoops to jump through?  I mean I get it I suppose if this is a unique one off where you'd have to tool up your equipment for small/single run stuff as bulk drops prices, the opposite raises them.

Do stick around, I think you'd be an asset to have around for discussion and maybe you could move a few items here without all the dumb fees too.

Either way that was a hell of a solid offer to help get the guy some NES/FC carts back out there for those who genuinely want to play it, and not take it on the nose from a scalper too.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

6 hours ago, RetroX85 said:

I believe @zxdplay is currently trying to port Star Keeper to PC, Which is awesome.  More people will finally get a chance to play this game if he is successful with it.

Anyone with a pc can play like every 2D game ever made at any time - whether it's ROMs or Steam or DOSBox or whatever; the only thing that is special about Star Keeper is that it works on a physical OG NES - take that away and his game has nothing to distinguish it from the other 150,000 2D video games that have been made since the early '70's.  But I wish him the best, I guess...

[Tanooki | 4,932]

Star Keeper falls into the realm (lockout designed board or not) of other modern era aftermarket carts with solid gameplay experiences on them.  A good one, Columbus Circle picked up RIKI's Kira Kira Star Night DX for Famicom, later LRG did some wonk deal to up-charge a lot more for it with their scheming sales.  Look at the video below, do you think this would have moved much on Steam (or any of RIKI's others?)  Obviously not, it's more about the experience as much as the game, dumbing it down to some PC download sucks half the life out of it.

 

[fcgamer | 4,722]

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

The only thing that is special about Star Keeper is that it's expensive and limited so few can play it, i.e. an elitist's paradise.

Fixed for you

Edited March 20, 2023 by fcgamer

[zxdplay | 149]

11 hours ago, krzysiobal said:

I have reverse engineered hundreds of cartridges - you can check my page:

 

I have to admit, you're a master. You can draw a schematic just by looking at a photo of the PCB (although I don't know if it will work properly). The cost of the components is expensive. To be honest, I never intended to make money from Star Keeper(NES) when I first released it. The game was intended as a gift to the homebrew community. Although the game is almost free, I still need to protect its copyright.

Edited March 20, 2023 by zxdplay

[BlackVega | 583]

2 hours ago, zxdplay said:

Although the game is almost free, I still need to protect its copyright.

What are you talking about? So where is this available to pay/play/download?

4 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Anyone with a pc can play like every 2D game ever made at any time - whether it's ROMs or Steam or DOSBox or whatever; the only thing that is special about Star Keeper is that it works on a physical OG NES - take that away and his game has nothing to distinguish it from the other 150,000 2D video games that have been made since the early '70's.  But I wish him the best, I guess...

You can still advertise it as "originally developed for the NES" or "NES version also available" or something along these lines

2 hours ago, zxdplay said:

To be honest, I never intended to make money from Star Keeper(NES) when I first released it.

In fact, people here are suggesting you should. The seller sells ROMs/cartridges and buyers buy them. You make profit, they get products and everyone is happy. This is just good business strategy. The only institution that may not like it is the IRS if you exceed a certain threshold

Edited March 20, 2023 by BlackVega

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

14 minutes ago, BlackVega said:

You can still advertise it as "originally developed for the NES" or "NES version also available" or something along these lines

Nobody cares.  And the 0.000000001% of gamers who do care are in this thread and want to play the NES game.  Why on earth would a modern gamer give two shits that some random $2 gimmick game on Steam has a "NES version" available?!?

[BlackVega | 583]

I will still be more fond to play a PC version of this game rather than being trapped into a shady idea of buying NFTs

[RetroX85 | 64]

10 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Anyone with a pc can play like every 2D game ever made at any time - whether it's ROMs or Steam or DOSBox or whatever; the only thing that is special about Star Keeper is that it works on a physical OG NES - take that away and his game has nothing to distinguish it from the other 150,000 2D video games that have been made since the early '70's.  But I wish him the best, I guess...

True, but still nice to see that he would at least try to give other gamers a chance to play the game on PC even though it is just  another 2D platformer.  

[Tanooki | 4,932]

10 hours ago, zxdplay said:

 Although the game is almost free, I still need to protect its copyright.

Well I'm very impressed too, but as you said this was a gift to the homebrew community, so why no more gifting?  Or are you going to gift it again?  You said it is almost free?  How it is almost free as ebay shows it's expensive.  Would you be willing to work with him to make more?  You get free money, he makes some money and does a project he would enjoy creating, and buyers would be happy to play it.  It seems like everyone wins, and it would if anything maybe help push your NFTs as more could experience why Star Keeper is good.

[Khromak | 768]

I think when he said "the game is almost free" what he meant was "I made almost nothing off the first run." He made the game for $40, paid $15 in shipping, and sold it for $60 to the community (or fill in the numbers) so it was "almost free" when he made/sold it back then, it was just produced as a gift to the community then.

[Jeevan | 8,910]

1 minute ago, Khromak said:

I think when he said "the game is almost free" what he meant was "I made almost nothing off the first run." He made the game for $40, paid $15 in shipping, and sold it for $60 to the community (or fill in the numbers) so it was "almost free" when he made/sold it back then, it was just produced as a gift to the community then.

so now would be the time to cash in on it if possible with a deal with VGS and megacat

[Gloves | 11,774]

14 hours ago, zxdplay said:

Although the game is almost free, I still need to protect its copyright.

To be fair: You don't need to. Only you have deemed that to be the case.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

16 hours ago, BlackVega said:

I will still be more fond to play a PC version of this game rather than being trapped into a shady idea of buying NFTs

It's going to end up being on aliexpress  in a couple of years for like eight bucks, so just wait for that, or download the ROM for free once it has fallen into the right (or wrong?) hands and been leaked onto the internet; no need to delve into the world of NFTs; you just need to have a little patience.

If he doesn't want to sell his NES game to satiate the demand, then someone else will be more than willing to step in and make that money in his place; it's the way of the world...

Edited March 21, 2023 by Dr. Morbis

[Tanooki | 4,932]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

It's going to end up being on aliexpress  in a couple of years for like eight bucks, so just wait for that, or download the ROM for free once it has fallen into the right (or wrong?) hands and been leaked onto the internet; no need to delve into the world of NFTs; you just need to have a little patience.

If he doesn't want to sell his NES game to satiate the demand, then someone else will be more than willing to step in and make that money in his place; it's the way of the world...

That's my current plan unless something else pans out first.  I dusted my account off after my last buy sometime last year.  Why?  Pirate shit.  That's it.

A couple months ago the MVS 161in1 got a version 3, fixed its problems finally, and saw they were doing a nearly 1/2 off sale, grabbed it for $55.

While I was at it (and more relevant here as it's NES/FC) I miss owning Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa, had it as a famiclone 'baby mario' a decade ago, lost it to attrition or broke.  Bought that too because even the copies are $50-60 now with the real ones over $100... cost me $12 initially, but they did a discount, so $7.

So give it time, Star Keeper will be up there too in the $10-12 range on a FC or NES cart, and with sales it'll be in the single digits too.

Time to strike is now, make your money, get that guy to make you some copies with no effort on you 87arts, if that's you, and get paid before it's too late.  The schematic is there, the game is out, just takes one copy to put an end to your overprotective pitch to sell NFTs.  Not trying to be  mean, but I am being blunt hoping it will sink in.

[Link | 2,709]

On 3/20/2023 at 2:33 AM, BlackVega said:

I will still be more fond to play a PC version of this game rather than being trapped into a shady idea of buying NFTs

NFTs have nothing to do with actually playing the game.