NES Games with Famicom Adaptors

[OptOut | 8,889]

Wait a second, @Dr. Morbis's name is Basil?!

By far the most interesting revelation in this particular thread! 

[Tulpa | 3,517]

1 hour ago, OptOut said:

Wait a second, @Dr. Morbis's name is Basil?!

By far the most interesting revelation in this particular thread! 

Hey, you leave our spice-named brethren alone!

[Tanooki | 4,939]

13 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Off topic, I'm pretty sure both Lagrange Point and Metal Slader Glory have no way of fitting in a standard licensed shell using an adapter. Uchuu Keibitai SDF also has a pretty honkin' ROM board.

Correct on that, and there were others like the one below the wizard there pointed out, Nobunaga II (other KOEIs did as well) that used like 1 1/2 size height FC shells to fit bigger boards.

13 hours ago, the_wizard_666 said:

For Tanooki's Sim City cart I used Nobunaga II.  Pretty much all the MMC5 and VRC6/7 releases are massive.

Yup and so were a few others that had some taller frames, such as my Splatterhouse cart which due to how I set my shelf up sits on its side.  Another would be the bootleg I got off @fcgamer which is Super Fighter III (Street Fighter II) which is the best of the aftermarket bootleg games as it actually has all the fighters, no lame doubles, the moves work, it's actually quite functional.   So even some bootleg pirate play stuff from the ground up used more complex larger board setups too.

Sure it would have been nice having the Sim City game in a NES shell, but it just functionally wouldn't work out without some costly total redesign of some sort or using some very very expensive US KOEI cart as a sacrifice on the altar.  Well, that or that one off chopshopped everdrive board I have with the total MMC5 setup tossed into the FPGA on my one off Super Mario All-Stars 2017/infidelity cart.

 

For those interested, I've attached a couple images of each (SC, and SMAS)

Would love to learn who put that thing together for SMAS and more importantly HOW, that would be a very valuable tool for other games.

 

[a3quit4s | 4,103]

13 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Correct on that, and there were others like the one below the wizard there pointed out, Nobunaga II (other KOEIs did as well) that used like 1 1/2 size height FC shells to fit bigger boards.

Yup and so were a few others that had some taller frames, such as my Splatterhouse cart which due to how I set my shelf up sits on its side.  Another would be the bootleg I got off @fcgamer which is Super Fighter III (Street Fighter II) which is the best of the aftermarket bootleg games as it actually has all the fighters, no lame doubles, the moves work, it's actually quite functional.   So even some bootleg pirate play stuff from the ground up used more complex larger board setups too.

Sure it would have been nice having the Sim City game in a NES shell, but it just functionally wouldn't work out without some costly total redesign of some sort or using some very very expensive US KOEI cart as a sacrifice on the altar.  Well, that or that one off chopshopped everdrive board I have with the total MMC5 setup tossed into the FPGA on my one off Super Mario All-Stars 2017/infidelity cart.

 

For those interested, I've attached a couple images of each (SC, and SMAS)

Would love to learn who put that thing together for SMAS and more importantly HOW, that would be a very valuable tool for other games.

 

Omg my ocd kicked in so hard on the second picture, like cut your damn wires to the correct length what in the hell is that one doing a loop de loop

[Tanooki | 4,939]

Don't mock the spaghetti it works.   Seriously though not sure why a few are that long, probably ease of work, but they fit.

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

8 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Don't mock the spaghetti it works.   Seriously though not sure why a few are that long, probably ease of work, but they fit.

It makes me want pull'n'peel twizzlers....

[guitarzombie | 924]

Too much to read, but I wanted to add here that IIRC all the FC boards with an adapter, have a hole in the middle of their PCB where the 5th middle screw fits perfectly around.  The 5 screw MTPO not only doesn't have that, but you couldn't even fit the 5th middle screw in, since theres no hole thru the PCB where it would.

[Tulpa | 3,517]

39 minutes ago, guitarzombie said:

Too much to read,

A nutshell:

fcgamer: Gumshoe with adapter is the new Nessie. Will pay handsomely for a carcass.

Wiz: Man, even Grover Cleveland knew about the MTPO with adapters.

Dr. Morbis: Any game can have an adapter. I can make a Playstation game have an adapter.

And some usual VGS tomfoolery on top of that.

 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

9 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Bringing it back to the topic of this thread, Gumshoe on one hand makes sense, but on another hand makes no sense at all, thus if I saw a Gumshoe with an adaptor (especially when taken with the alleged context of why games were slapped together with adaptors to begin with), I would suspect it to be a forgery, until proven otherwise.

There is one possible circumstance where 60 pin Gumshoes could exist, and that is if the 1985 Test Market initial run was done entirely from converter boards due to Nintendo's factory not being ready to produce 72 pin boards, or Nintendo not wanting to retool unnecessarily if the US test launch had failed.  In such an instance, there would be very few 60 pin Gumshoes (in the hundreds maybe), but even then, one would have surely turned up by now.

Anyway, I strongly believe that the conjecture that I've detailed above is not how it happened.  I believe that the response to the test market and ensuing national roll-out was so overwhelmingly positive that Nintendo used the converters when necessary to fill orders that they couldn't keep up with using the copious amounts of Famicom game boards that they had on hand at the time...

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

8 hours ago, OptOut said:

Wait a second, @Dr. Morbis's name is Basil?!

By far the most interesting revelation in this particular thread! 

In the early days of NA, we all referred to each other by our first names, and it was not unusual for oldtimers to have their actual real names listed under their avatars.  My how times have changed...  

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

1 hour ago, guitarzombie said:

Too much to read, but I wanted to add here that IIRC all the FC boards with an adapter, have a hole in the middle of their PCB where the 5th middle screw fits perfectly around.  The 5 screw MTPO not only doesn't have that, but you couldn't even fit the 5th middle screw in, since theres no hole thru the PCB where it would.

That hole is not originally made for a NES cart.  Most early Nintendo-manufactured Famicom games have a round hole in the pcb in the same place to secure them in their famicom cart housing, so I can only assume that when the NES adapter was designed, they made sure to have the hole in their Famicom pcbs properly line up with the middle screw of an NES cartridge.

And bringing that around to the MTPO with converter, that's one more reason that I personally would be more inclined to believe that someone other than Nintendo "made" that cartridge...

Edited December 21, 2022 by Dr. Morbis

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

13 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Unlikely, but completely impossible to prove or disprove at this point without inside information from Nintendo.  Information from any other source is purely conjecture.

Actually, very easy to prove.  Take a small number of still sealed test market games that the majority of folks can agree on are real (probably WATA entombed), and run them through an x-ray machine.  Done.  That would prove what, if any, of those carts had adapters inside.  If the number is zero, which it should be, then that disproves your theory pretty handily, especially if more and more confirmed test market carts are scanned and all come up lacking the converters.  If there are somehow, suddenly, converters inside, then we'd know you were correct instead, and that whoever at Nintendo leaked the info about the converters being used to make up for slow Christmas game production (I want to say I read it from an interview with Howard Phillips, but could be totally wrong there) was mistaken.

11 hours ago, the_wizard_666 said:

I agree, but unless someone checks the soldering job, it would be indistinguishable from anything legit.  That's kinda the point Basil's making there - it's not all that difficult to fake something like this, especially when you consider how few people know exactly what to look for to avoid the fakes.  In my experience, the number of people using resources like VGS is maybe 5% of the population of collectors, if that.  There are a ton of people out there that simply wouldn't know the difference.  And my point was to illustrate just how easily such a fake could be produced, as anyone with a soldering iron and a few minutes on Bootgod's site (or more specifically the mirror site, since the main one has been down for months) could make a passable fake with legitimate "back in the day" parts.

I mean, that would literally be the first thing people were checking in order to verify something like that was real.  So...yeah, 99.9% chance that anyone doing actual, standard due diligence in such a situation would be able to confirm modern repros as the fakes that they were.

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

There is one possible circumstance where 60 pin Gumshoes could exist, and that is if the 1985 Test Market initial run was done entirely from converter boards due to Nintendo's factory not being ready to produce 72 pin boards, or Nintendo not wanting to retool unnecessarily if the US test launch had failed.  In such an instance, there would be very few 60 pin Gumshoes (in the hundreds maybe), but even then, one would have surely turned up by now.

There's your problem, as Gumshoe wasn't released as part of the 1985 test market run, it didn't come out until nearly a year later, in June of 1986.  Problem with your theory there is that if they were so afraid of the launch failing that they didn't retool to make actual, regular, full size, 72-pin NES cartridges before that point, we wouldn't have all the cartridges from late 1985 through mid 1986 that we do.

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Anyway, I strongly believe that the conjecture that I've detailed above is not how it happened.  I believe that the response to the test market and ensuing national roll-out was so overwhelmingly positive that Nintendo used the converters when necessary to fill orders that they couldn't keep up with using the copious amounts of Famicom game boards that they had on hand at the time...

If you don't believe that's how it happen, then why introduce theories as to how it might have?  That's literally just stirring the pot, as nobody was arguing that the test market games contained converters save you.  Are you stirring the pot for your own amusement or just covering all the bases so you're technically not wrong due to espousing both opinions?

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

2 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

In the early days of NA, we all referred to each other by our first names, and it was not unusual for oldtimers to have their actual real names listed under their avatars.  My how times have changed...  

Good point, knowing each others names was such a good value for building community bonds.

@Gloves we need to see each others NAMESZZZZ...

[Gloves | 11,795]

11 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

Good point, knowing each others names was such a good value for building community bonds.

@Gloves we need to see each others NAMESZZZZ...

I mean, it's a privacy concern to just plop peoples names out in the open. 

That said, I could prob add a field to your account to opt-in to showing your name (or whatever other small message). I just wouldn't wanna do it by default. 

[Ferris Bueller | 495]

26 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

Good point, knowing each others names was such a good value for building community bonds.

@Gloves we need to see each others NAMESZZZZ...

 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

2 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

If you don't believe that's how it happen, then why introduce theories as to how it might have?  That's literally just stirring the pot, as nobody was arguing that the test market games contained converters save you.  Are you stirring the pot for your own amusement or just covering all the bases so you're technically not wrong due to espousing both opinions?

I did not introduce the test market conveter theory in this thread, codemonkey did; I was just fleshing out the most logical instance where his theory could possibly be true, after which I stated my belief that it's highly unlikely.  If we're not allowed to introduce new thoughts into threads, then what exactly is the point of having a discussion forum to begin with?

2 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

Actually, very easy to prove.  Take a small number of still sealed test market games that the majority of folks can agree on are real (probably WATA entombed), and run them through an x-ray machine.  Done.  That would prove what, if any, of those carts had adapters inside.  If the number is zero, which it should be, then that disproves your theory pretty handily,

Again, it's not my theory and I clearly stated that I don't believe it to be true.  If you consider finding people with sealed launch titles and setting them up with X-ray technicians and running them through X-Ray machines to be "easy" then I guess your definition of easy is a whole lot different than mine (unless the grading companies do it???) 

EDIT- I've got to congratulate you, though, for thinking outside the box with the X-Ray idea, as yeah, that could definitively prove that not all launch titles had converters.  Unfortunately, we'll probably never be able to though, since you're probably wrong about the "very easy" part.  Bright side: x-raying launch titles is pointless anyway since *almost* no one believes that the launch was all converter games to begin with

Edited December 21, 2022 by Dr. Morbis

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

3 hours ago, Tulpa said:

I can make a Playstation game have an adapter.

 

 

PlayStation has entered the chat.

You now have my attention.  

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

35 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I mean, it's a privacy concern to just plop peoples names out in the open. 

That said, I could prob add a field to your account to opt-in to showing your name (or whatever other small message). I just wouldn't wanna do it by default. 

I think it was that way too.

All the "cool kids" did it and you had to manually go into your profile settings and add your location and name. I remember only the SOOPER cool kids picked their location as Antarctica.

[Gloves | 11,795]

14 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

I think it was that way too.

All the "cool kids" did it and you had to manually go into your profile settings and add your location and name. I remember only the SOOPER cool kids picked their location as Antarctica.

I seem to recall something about that, too, lol. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

2 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

whoever at Nintendo leaked the info about the converters being used to make up for slow Christmas game production (I want to say I read it from an interview with Howard Phillips, but could be totally wrong there)

If your memory of a Howard Philips interview about the reason for the converters existing is actually true, then any all-English Famicom games that had also been released in the US before that particular Christmas could potentially be found with a converter, which would obviously preclude Gumshoe entirely.  Hopefully someone can dig up that interview though, to confirm what most of us already believe: that the converters were used to fill orders when 72 pin production was unable to keep up...

Edited December 21, 2022 by Dr. Morbis

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

4 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Don't mock the spaghetti it works.   Seriously though not sure why a few are that long, probably ease of work, but they fit.

That's part of it.  I had cut a few that were far too short to use, so many in fact that I said fuck it and gave an extra inch to the ones that had to go long distances.  Another factor is that there wasn't enough space to go over the chips, and with the number of wires there, I had to reroute some so I could fit them all into the case.  MMC5 repros are no joke!

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

22 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

Out of curiosity, what's your source?  While I believe that all the titles that were available in the first test market ended up having Famicom adapters inside at some point, I don't know that I buy all the launch games having them, especially since there's a thread on here where I recall at least one or two full size SMB boards being identified as test market carts by the date on their chips.  The story that got handed down from inside Nintendo about those was that they were running short of supply over Christmas and it was much faster to just use already manufactured Famicom boards plus the adapters versus having to wait for new NES PCBs to be manufactured, then the components added, etc.  Without a source, I don't see any reason to dial back the date for additional product 2-3 months.

 

I have a Test Market Deluxe Set with serial number in the 5XXX range with Famicom adapters in both the Duck Hunt and Gyromite cartridges from that box. They were for sure used in the first run.

[OptOut | 8,889]

5 hours ago, Gloves said:

That said, I could prob add a field to your account to opt-in

Don't bring me into this. 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

52 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I have a Test Market Deluxe Set with serial number in the 5XXX range with Famicom adapters in both the Duck Hunt and Gyromite cartridges from that box. They were for sure used in the first run.

Is that set original to you, as in did you or your relatives actually buy it in the test market themselves and can verify that it never passed into hands other than yours?  If you bought it from someone else, there's no guarantee that the cartridges in box were necessarily the ones that actually shipped with it.  Hence my "requirement" of sealed test market carts to be verified one way or the other via x-ray, so as to not have to open them and ruin someone's day, but also be able to actually verify what's inside.  Out of curiosity, what are the date codes inside those cartridges?  Do they actually match up to the original test market launch dates?  Or would/could they coincide with Christmas of that year, a few months later?

5 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

If you consider finding people with sealed launch titles and setting them up with X-ray technicians and running them through X-Ray machines to be "easy" then I guess your definition of easy is a whole lot different than mine (unless the grading companies do it???)

It's really not nearly as difficult as you're making out.  I remember the last time this idea came about, it was pointed out (I believe it was me who did, but can't recall for certain at this point) that one could simply take such a cart with them on a flight somewhere and ask the staff if they could snap a photo of it as it passed through the scanner, allow you to see the scan, etc., as some staff in some airports (especially smaller ones) can be accommodating in that way.

Barring that method, it's really not difficult at all to arrange for an x-ray at some medical office that has the equipment and just paying out of pocket for the service.  Without insurance, straight up out of pocket, every place in my area can/will do it for $75, if not less.  I'm not saying that you won't have to speak to not unsympathetic people in order to make this happen in either situation, but making a few phone calls and having a few conversations is far from difficult.  Just because we can't simply pop down to the 7/11 for an x-ray doesn't make it difficult to obtain if you really want one.  Heck, thinking further outside of that box, plenty of vets offices also have x-ray equipment, so there's yet another avenue where you could simply pay someone their standard rate for the service and just have it done in one.

5 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

EDIT- I've got to congratulate you, though, for thinking outside the box with the X-Ray idea, as yeah, that could definitively prove that not all launch titles had converters.  Unfortunately, we'll probably never be able to though, since you're probably wrong about the "very easy" part.  Bright side: x-raying launch titles is pointless anyway since *almost* no one believes that the launch was all converter games to begin with

Thank you, that tends to be one of my specialties, even at work.  Call it fate, karma, or what have you, for whatever reason, I and my immediate family have always seemed to end up in situations where we don't have the correct/necessary tools on-hand at a given situations and have learned (through trial and error, ingenuity, and tenacity, among other things) how to succeed regardless.  As such, "outside of the box" tends to be my default mode, as I just assume that things aren't going to go to plan and try to always be ready with a plan B, C, etc.  Opening up those games would be plan A, so... 

4 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

If your memory of a Howard Philips interview about the reason for the converters existing is actually true, then any all-English Famicom games that had also been released in the US before that particular Christmas could potentially be found with a converter, which would obviously preclude Gumshoe entirely.  Hopefully someone can dig up that interview though, to confirm what most of us already believe: that the converters were used to fill orders when 72 pin production was unable to keep up...

I didn't read the article myself, but I want to say that I read about it on early NES gaming sites in the late 90s to early 00's, and then again on NA at some point.  It's too bad Howard Phillips isn't on VGS for us to just be able to ping him and ask him.  I want to say he provided some insight into the minimum number of units that stuff like Stadium Events had to have had created in order for Nintendo to manufacture them, so I'd wager he'd have some insight into the origins of/reasons for the Famicom converters inside NES cartridges, as well as some idea of when they began being used (if not the end of their usage as well).

[Tulpa | 3,517]

Howard was on NA for a little while. He might be willing to pop in if someone were to track him down and ask nicely.