NES Games with Famicom Adaptors

[Tulpa | 3,517]

1 hour ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Anything that's not Stack Up would be rarer than the 72 pin version.  Anything that wasn't a launch title would be exceedingly rare.  The original runs used converters to fill the supply at launch.  Anything outside of that was likely a result of the 80s chip shortage, but that's entirely speculation on my part.  And anything not using the converter you find in Stack Up is likely fake.

Gotcha. I was thinking in terms of overall rarity. Gyromite FC+adapter might be rarer than Gyromite NES, but there is still a fair amount out there, yes?

[fcgamer | 4,730]

For funsies, I know this won't fit in a nes shell with adaptor.

And the more serious point about why I started this thread: last night I stumbled upon the same list as the one posted on FW, I think it's wrong for unspoken reasons. I've made a WTB thread if anyone can help me out.

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

I believe every test market release (October 18 1985) had a Famicom adapter so that's every sticker sealed Black Box game. Once they got a nationwide retail release, new PCB were used instead of the Famicom adapters.

The 1985 releases were literally Famicom games in NES shells. Arguably they aren't NES games.

[Tulpa | 3,517]

Yeah, from the FW list, the seven I listed first I've seen adapters in them, so I know those are legit. I think the other four launch titles, Clu Clu Land, Golf, Tennis, and Soccer are strong contenders, though I haven't seen them personally.

Wiz vouches for MTPO.

DK Jr, Gumshoe, and Urban Champion are part of the "second wave" of NES releases, all 1986. I don't know enough one way or another. I guess it's plausible, but haven't seen direct evidence.

The others are third party. 1942 was from 1986, part of Capcom's first three NES games (along with Commando and Ghosts N' Goblins.) The rest are from 1987, with I think Wizards and Warriors being the last released.

That's all I got. *shrug*

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

33 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Off topic, I'm pretty sure both Lagrange Point and Metal Slader Glory have no way of fitting in a standard licensed shell using an adapter. Uchuu Keibitai SDF also has a pretty honkin' ROM board.

I'll be finding out about Lagrange Point in a month or two.  Buddy of mine commissioned one from me, just waiting for him to acquire the donor.  But yeah, it'll require modification, and will be pretty damn snug if I do manage to get it in there.

[Tulpa | 3,517]

Just now, the_wizard_666 said:

I'll be finding out about Lagrange Point in a month or two.  Buddy of mine commissioned one from me, just waiting for him to acquire the donor.  But yeah, it'll require modification, and will be pretty damn snug if I do manage to get it in there.

That one might be the biggest ROM board outside of the NWC carts. The Goemon Gaiden games are pretty big, too, now that I look at them on NesCartDB/Bootgod.

 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

4 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

That one might be the biggest ROM board outside of the NWC carts. The Goemon Gaiden games are pretty big, too, now that I look at them on NesCartDB/Bootgod.

 

For Tanooki's Sim City cart I used Nobunaga II.  Pretty much all the MMC5 and VRC6/7 releases are massive.

[Tulpa | 3,517]

That one's a heckin' chonker, too.

[fcgamer | 4,730]

Gum Shoe does not exist, if it does I'll pay three figures for one.

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

4 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Dude, wtf?!?!  Have you ever seen a Famicom game that's longer than a NES cart in your entire life?  My original statement was that I thought every single Famicom pcb would fit in a NES cartridge and I'll stand by that.  If you think I'm wrong, then post pics or stfu!

 

 

 

Nantettatte Baseball is an officially licensed Famicom game that has an expansion slot so you can update stats. There are two known update carts.

It is a standard Famicom game :V.

 

Then there's the Konami 'Space School' series.

 

ps... @fcgamer a 7th game was confirmed to exist.

 

 

 

Then there's the datach system.

 

 

and good luck fitting THIS thing in an NES...

https://famicomworld.com/system/other/karaoke-studio/

Edited December 21, 2022 by ThePhleo

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

6 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

 

 

 

Nantettatte Baseball is an officially licensed Famicom game that has an expansion slot so you can update stats. There are two known update carts.

It is a standard Famicom game :V.

 

Then there's the Konami 'Space School' series.

 

ps... @fcgamer a 7th game was confirmed to exist.

 

 

 

Then there's the datach system.

 

 

and good luck fitting THIS thing in an NES...

https://famicomworld.com/system/other/karaoke-studio/

In before "I meant standard carts"

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

10 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

In before "I meant standard carts"

Luckily 2 of those 4 are in fact standard licensed games without any caveats.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

3 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I believe every test market release (October 18 1985) had a Famicom adapter so that's every sticker sealed Black Box game. Once they got a nationwide retail release, new PCB were used instead of the Famicom adapters.

The 1985 releases were literally Famicom games in NES shells. Arguably they aren't NES games.

Out of curiosity, what's your source?  While I believe that all the titles that were available in the first test market ended up having Famicom adapters inside at some point, I don't know that I buy all the launch games having them, especially since there's a thread on here where I recall at least one or two full size SMB boards being identified as test market carts by the date on their chips.  The story that got handed down from inside Nintendo about those was that they were running short of supply over Christmas and it was much faster to just use already manufactured Famicom boards plus the adapters versus having to wait for new NES PCBs to be manufactured, then the components added, etc.  Without a source, I don't see any reason to dial back the date for additional product 2-3 months.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

56 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Out of curiosity, what's your source?  While I believe that all the titles that were available in the first test market ended up having Famicom adapters inside at some point, I don't know that I buy all the launch games having them, especially since there's a thread on here where I recall at least one or two full size SMB boards being identified as test market carts by the date on their chips.  The story that got handed down from inside Nintendo about those was that they were running short of supply over Christmas and it was much faster to just use already manufactured Famicom boards plus the adapters versus having to wait for new NES PCBs to be manufactured, then the components added, etc.  Without a source, I don't see any reason to dial back the date for additional product 2-3 months.

Yeah, all of this.  It wasn't the first print at all, it was the second or third printing most likely, and likely due to the chip shortage in '86 coupled with higher than anticipated demand for many games.  It could only really be done with games that didn't need localization though.  And seeing as the shortage lasted a couple years, it stands to reason that other surprise hits might have got the converter treatment, as using overstocked Famicom carts with a converter would be better than waiting for a new batch of chips to meet demand.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

  

7 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Doesn't need to be longer, it needs to be longer with the adapter Nintendo made to over-size from the plastic mold of the US cartridge shell.

And how many games were made like that before 1988, in order to be relevant to the topic at hand?   

 

6 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I believe every test market release (October 18 1985) had a Famicom adapter so that's every sticker sealed Black Box game. Once they got a nationwide retail release, new PCB were used instead of the Famicom adapters.

The 1985 releases were literally Famicom games in NES shells. Arguably they aren't NES games.

Unlikely, but completely impossible to prove or disprove at this point without inside information from Nintendo.  Information from any other source is purely conjecture.

 

5 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Gum Shoe does not exist, if it does I'll pay three figures for one.

Absolutely ridiculous that you would throw out a bounty on something that is so easy to "fake" using actual OEM parts and a standard screwdriver...

 

Guys, I'm not saying this isn't a cool piece of Nintendo history or that there are no legit converter games; I'm trying to help you all understand that listing them is entirely dubious, as is paying good money to collect them due to the circumstances surrounding how easy they are to fake with actual OEM parts.  A good percentage of the Gyromite carts in existence have the converters and all known Stack Ups have it, so the needed parts are readily available to all NES collectors.  My goal here is to have no one fall victim to any scammers and lose their hard earned cash (outside of @fcgamer of course, since he is completly impossible to argue with, and I'm not even going to try and save him his "three figures" beyond what I've already written in this post...)

PS - fcgamer: if you really do want a converter Gumshoe that bad, I can make you one in less than five minutes and happily take your hundreds.  Shipping will even be on me

Oh, and @ThePhleo: I don't think you've posted enough pics yet to refute my guess that it's less than one half of one percent...   

Edited December 21, 2022 by Dr. Morbis

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

21 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

 Oh, and @ThePhleo: I don't think you've posted enough pics yet to refute my guess that it's less than one half of one percent...   

There's what...1050 licensed Famicom games? So I just need one or two more!!!

[fcgamer | 4,730]

44 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Absolutely ridiculous that you would throw out a bounty on something that is so easy to "fake" using actual OEM parts and a standard screwdriver...

Not at all, I thought you were a Fami guy too.

Gumshoe was never released on the Famicom. There may have been some bootleg copies made back then, I'd have to check my lists, but if there were, they were very rare too.

So a 60 pin Gumshoe with an adapter would be something significant actually, and therefore if someone has it, I want it.

 

 

[fcgamer | 4,730]

47 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

PS - fcgamer: if you really do want a converter Gumshoe that bad, I can make you one in less than five minutes and happily take your hundreds.  Shipping will even be on me

Except you can't, unless you were doing a modern repro.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

30 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Except you can't, unless you were doing a modern repro.

Step 1: Acquire a Doreamon cart with through-hole chips.

Step 2: Acquire a Gumshoe cart.

Step 3: Acquire a Stack Up cart.

Step 4: Put Gumshoe chips onto Doreamon board.

Step 5: Put Doreamon board into converter in Stack Up cart.

Step 6: Put board and converter into Gumshoe shell.

It's a bit more than 5 minutes work, but entirely doable.

[fcgamer | 4,730]

9 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Step 1: Acquire a Doreamon cart with through-hole chips.

Step 2: Acquire a Gumshoe cart.

Step 3: Acquire a Stack Up cart.

Step 4: Put Gumshoe chips onto Doreamon board.

Step 5: Put Doreamon board into converter in Stack Up cart.

Step 6: Put board and converter into Gumshoe shell.

It's a bit more than 5 minutes work, but entirely doable.

That would be along the lines of a repro though. For the record I have copies of Konami's Contra (licensed PCBs) inside bootleg shells, but this wouldn't make it a licensed product. Similarly, a Frankenstein job wouldn't make it an official Famicom Gumshoe, even if it were built in the way you described.*

*I'm actually going to do this to make a "new" Hacker International game, I just need recommendations of what models to toss on the box. 

 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

45 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Not at all, I thought you were a Fami guy too.

Gumshoe was never released on the Famicom. There may have been some bootleg copies made back then, I'd have to check my lists, but if there were, they were very rare too.

So a 60 pin Gumshoe with an adapter would be something significant actually, and therefore if someone has it, I want it.

Hey man, it's your money...

I'm just sick of seeing things posted on collector boards end up springboarding to massive price hikes on eBay due to lack of knowledge on the part of newer NES collectors.  As soon as I saw the MTPO mentioned I got this sick feeling that some lurker was going to read that and bide his time for like a month or two and then a MTPO with converter will magically show up on eBay in like February of next year, and some poor sucker will pay thousands of dollars for it and suddenly it's an official variant worth four figures.  But whatever, I know what I know and I have damn near everything I want on the NES at this point, so I guess I'll stop trying to look out for the less informed NES plebs of the world.  I'll leave them all in your good hands, fcgamer...

[fcgamer | 4,730]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Hey man, it's your money...

I'm just sick of seeing things posted on collector boards end up springboarding to massive price hikes on eBay due to lack of knowledge on the part of newer NES collectors.  As soon as I saw the MTPO mentioned I got this sick feeling that some lurker was going to read that and bide his time for like a month or two and then a MTPO with converter will magically show up on eBay in like February of next year, and some poor sucker will pay thousands of dollars for it and suddenly it's an official variant worth four figures.  But whatever, I know what I know and I have damn near everything I want on the NES at this point, so I guess I'll stop trying to look out for the less informed NES plebs of the world.  I'll leave them all in your good hands, fcgamer...

I made this thread last night after seeing Gumshoe on the list of games with converters, as I was 99.9% it didn't exist. I'm saddened though that no one else realized what I was getting at inquiring only about that game though.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

39 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I made this thread last night after seeing Gumshoe on the list of games with converters, as I was 99.9% it didn't exist. I'm saddened though that no one else realized what I was getting at inquiring only about that game though.

My guess is that the list was made by taking games that fit the time frame and not actually by any sort of verification.

 

48 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

That would be along the lines of a repro though. For the record I have copies of Konami's Contra (licensed PCBs) inside bootleg shells, but this wouldn't make it a licensed product. Similarly, a Frankenstein job wouldn't make it an official Famicom Gumshoe, even if it were built in the way you described.*

*I'm actually going to do this to make a "new" Hacker International game, I just need recommendations of what models to toss on the box. 

 

I agree, but unless someone checks the soldering job, it would be indistinguishable from anything legit.  That's kinda the point Basil's making there - it's not all that difficult to fake something like this, especially when you consider how few people know exactly what to look for to avoid the fakes.  In my experience, the number of people using resources like VGS is maybe 5% of the population of collectors, if that.  There are a ton of people out there that simply wouldn't know the difference.  And my point was to illustrate just how easily such a fake could be produced, as anyone with a soldering iron and a few minutes on Bootgod's site (or more specifically the mirror site, since the main one has been down for months) could make a passable fake with legitimate "back in the day" parts.

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

Even using factory sealed games to prove inserts or the existence of certain variants requires assumptions.

1. Assembly line work is monotonous. An assembly line worker can be lazy at any particular moment and simply forget an insert, or even a whole cartridge or manual.
2. Is it without a shadow of a doubt that the item in your hands that you're about to open is 100% irrefutably authentic and not some sort of modern sophisticated forgery? Anyone with a couple hundred thousand to spare can buy Japanese printing and packaging equipment from the early 1980s.
3. Do you even have any physical, tangible evidence that the item in question was ever even on store shelves? Yeah there are advertisements, and sales reports, and even receipts...but do you have proof that those are real?

I'm being a bit silly here since its 3am, but the message to be blunt is that we use patterns to determine the history of old toys from the '80s and '90s and that's good enough.

[fcgamer | 4,730]

48 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

My guess is that the list was made by taking games that fit the time frame and not actually by any sort of verification.

 

I agree, but unless someone checks the soldering job, it would be indistinguishable from anything legit.  That's kinda the point Basil's making there - it's not all that difficult to fake something like this, especially when you consider how few people know exactly what to look for to avoid the fakes.  In my experience, the number of people using resources like VGS is maybe 5% of the population of collectors, if that.  There are a ton of people out there that simply wouldn't know the difference.  And my point was to illustrate just how easily such a fake could be produced, as anyone with a soldering iron and a few minutes on Bootgod's site (or more specifically the mirror site, since the main one has been down for months) could make a passable fake with legitimate "back in the day" parts.

I get the point that Basil is trying to make, but we are lightyears beyond preventing that sort of situation from occurring, in this day and age. It's unfortunate, but with so many "repros", huge bucks at stake, etc., one honestly needs to do the proper research before jumping into the market. 

Years ago, probably around 1998 or 2000, I had considered purchasing some Atari 2600 prototypes, but I never did as I had heard about fakes and stuff thrown together from parts that were lying around, and I just wasn't knowledgeable enough on the topic to feel confident in purchasing something, especially on the cheaper side, without getting screwed. So I didn't buy any, and I'm more than fine with that outcome.

The whole picture needs to be taken into consideration when making purchases, something I do every single time I purchase items of a somewhat questionable nature. Bringing it back to the topic of this thread, Gumshoe on one hand makes sense, but on another hand makes no sense at all, thus if I saw a Gumshoe with an adaptor (especially when taken with the alleged context of why games were slapped together with adaptors to begin with), I would suspect it to be a forgery, until proven otherwise.

To contrast, legit Famicom Contra PCBs inside bootleg shells, seem to be more than just a mere pcb / cart swap. Tons of those have been found, both in earlier (chipped) and later (glob) revisions, and have been found across the globe independently from Taiwan to Russia. Thus by looking at that picture, we can confirm that these were indeed done at a factory somewhere.