Limited Run Games

[avatar! | 1,819]

On 4/1/2020 at 11:01 AM, TDIRunner said:

Even that's a lot compared to several games in the 2600 library.  That's why no one ever has or ever will have a full 2600 set.  

So those 2600 games weren't officially licensed games? When people talk about "complete sets" I think they're usually referring to licensed games. I'm a bit curious today how people would define a complete set of say PS4 games? Does that include the numerous Collector's/Limited editions? 

[Inzoreno | 102]

On 4/3/2020 at 8:40 PM, avatar! said:

So those 2600 games weren't officially licensed games? When people talk about "complete sets" I think they're usually referring to licensed games. I'm a bit curious today how people would define a complete set of say PS4 games? Does that include the numerous Collector's/Limited editions? 

In the Atari days there wasn't as clear of a line between licensed and unlicensed games because the 2600 didn't have any kind of security feature to prevent unlicensed games from playing on them like future game consoles had. As such, anyone with a little know how could make and sell games, resulting in things like Gamma Attack and Red Sea Crossing. 

Personally as a PS4 Collector, I see special edition versions of games as just variants that's aren't needed if you want a complete collection since they usually only come with DLC codes as extra in-game content. Since that extra content is not on the disc, I don't consider the special edition to be a separate thing from the base game. So, for example, I own Doom Eternal and in my opinion if I was going for a complete PS4 collection, I don't need the big box sets of the game since the disc that comes with them doesn't have anything extra on it. 

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

On 4/3/2020 at 8:40 PM, avatar! said:

So those 2600 games weren't officially licensed games? When people talk about "complete sets" I think they're usually referring to licensed games. I'm a bit curious today how people would define a complete set of say PS4 games? Does that include the numerous Collector's/Limited editions? 

Personally, if I was to go after a full set for PS4 or Switch I would not include LRG (and games produced by similar companies). It would be totally reasonable for someone to include them (especially considering many of them have been sold in stores), but I'd treat them as side sets; totally legit, but not what I'm after.

In all reality, the transition to collector's editions, limited runs, and digital-only releases has made the idea of a "complete" set very subjective since the 360/PS3 generation.

[MiamiSlice | 3,097]

4 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said:

Personally, if I was to go after a full set for PS4 or Switch I would not include LRG (and games produced by similar companies). It would be totally reasonable for someone to include them (especially considering many of them have been sold in stores), but I'd treat them as side sets; totally legit, but not what I'm after.

In all reality, the transition to collector's editions, limited runs, and digital-only releases has made the idea of a "complete" set very subjective since the 360/PS3 generation.

What I’ve heard most people consider to be a full NA set is if it has an ESRB rating. LRG games have that. 

[Inzoreno | 102]

23 minutes ago, MiamiSlice said:

What I’ve heard most people consider to be a full NA set is if it has an ESRB rating. LRG games have that. 

That actually gets tricky, because a lot of early LRG releases didn't have it. Only later did Sony start requiring them, so things like the two Shantae games lack the ESRB rating. 

[O.G. CIB | 415]

If the games were Approved, quality tested and manufactured by Nintendo.... no matter how the cookie is cut it’s apart of the full set. Physical collecting eventually will only be these limited companies as the bigger ones prefer to be all digital. A full set is What you make it but when I see games that limited run games are publishing on a Nintendo Direct that’s more than enough for me.

[avatar! | 1,819]

2 hours ago, Mr. CIB said:

If the games were Approved, quality tested and manufactured by Nintendo.... no matter how the cookie is cut it’s apart of the full set. Physical collecting eventually will only be these limited companies as the bigger ones prefer to be all digital. A full set is What you make it but when I see games that limited run games are publishing on a Nintendo Direct that’s more than enough for me.

Great point. If big AAA companies start releasing games entirely digital, then what happens to collectors?  I'm glad LRG is around, and I certainly consider them 100% legitimate. In other words, if you want to own a complete set of say Vita games, and you don't have any of the LRG releases, then you simply don't own a complete set, I don't see any room for interpretation here. I think it's different with the 2600 but different times for sure. 

[avatar! | 1,819]

Here's another publisher which has just popped up

https://physicalitygames.com/collections/physical-games

Don't know anything about them...

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

2 hours ago, avatar! said:

Here's another publisher which has just popped up

https://physicalitygames.com/collections/physical-games

Don't know anything about them...

I believe their business model is, have to hit a certain number of pre-orders then the game will get produced. They dont or didnt have a time frame for when they need to be placed. So in theory a game could take a year to hit that magical number. If your one of the first ones to buy in your money could be tied up for a long time.

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

2 hours ago, avatar! said:

Here's another publisher which has just popped up

https://physicalitygames.com/collections/physical-games

Don't know anything about them...

Found this, scroll down a bit for how this all works

https://physicalitygames.com/pages/how-it-works

[MiamiSlice | 3,097]

Just now, LeatherRebel5150 said:

Found this, scroll down a bit for how this all works

https://physicalitygames.com/pages/how-it-works

I remember when this was announced. I think they are misunderstanding the limited print market. Part of the reason these games are able to "sell out" if they even do (lately some of these games don't even sell out very fast, see Super Rare which still has a few hundred copies of Octahedron and Steamworld Quest on hand) is that there is forced scarcity which induces FOMO (if I don't buy this now, I'll have to buy it from a scalper later). If you tell people now that there is fundamentally no limit, that if they don't get it on the first batch then there's still a chance they can order on another batch (as long as enough orders come in), then you've lost the plot. Enough people will put these on the backburner aka sleep on these that the games will not sell fast and that will create further impression that the games are not very desirable (a negative feedback loop). 

I mean no ill will in saying this; I personally want to buy 2 of the 3 games they've announced and while I think the tins are dumb I like the stuff they are packaging with these games anyway. But yeah I'm  predicting they will regret this approach. 

[MiamiSlice | 3,097]

Just got the latest newsletter from Super Rare and the second half is a doozy I figured you should all read. Context: Human Fall Flat was their first game and they have a strict limit of 5k copies per release. Since then (it was 2 years ago), this game has become a massive hit, selling millions in the digital markets. Just recently it was announced that it's getting a physical release in Japan, meaning this is the first Super Rare game to break their exclusivity. Here's how George from Super Rare is addressing it: 

Quote

I also wanted to touch on Human: Fall Flat, the very first SRG release. Back in 2017 we signed an exclusive agreement with the Publisher to release the physical version for the Switch. But due to the increasing success of the game we agreed to give them back the physical rights. This decision was an incredibly hard one to make as we recognise the importance of the limited exclusivity of our releases, but ultimately we want to support indie developers and help them maximise the potential revenue from their games. I think we made the right choice. 

When we released the game two years ago, it was a popular indie game, and a mass market release didn't make sense for it. Releasing an indie game into retail is near impossible, and this is ultimately why we exist,  to make it possible to see your favourite indie games as boxed editions.

Fast forward to present day, and Human: Fall Flat is now one of best selling indie game of all time selling millions of digital copies and 5,000 physical copies. To put it in perspective, we estimate it has almost sold as many as Zelda Breath of the Wild.

Now to answer why we gave the rights back, by not allowing the developer to release it as a global physical release, we are not allowing the game to fulfil its potential. We are directly stopping him (it was made by one guy) from making money from a mass-market release. This money will allow him to make bigger and better games, and grow his studio. At the end of the day, we exist to benefit indie game developers, and in this rare situation, we are actually hindering the potential of the game, and we did not feel comfortable about that.

The other versions that come out will have different artwork, be a different version of the game entirely, mainly focusing on the online content of the game.

I expect some backlash from this decision, but as mentioned, we think this is the correct choice on this one-off. Whilst we always focus on ourselves, all the other major limited print companies have had reprints of their games from other publishers. So thats important to keep in mind.

And to finally answer the most important thing people will ask, no, this is not expected to happen again. We remain focused on what we do, and being truly limited-print is one of our USP's. This is a very, very bizarre and unique situation where over the course of two years, a game has skyrocketed to insane popularity. We sign our games exclusively and this won't change.

There will only ever be 5,000 copies of the Super Rare Human: Fall Flat game.

Apologies for the rant, and I hope you understand. As a 21 year old who just loves indie games, I could never live with myself if I was the direct reason why a game didn't reach the best place it can. 

I think making hard promises is always dangerous. This is no exception. It doesn't bother me personally but I know a lot of people who buy these games HATE when this happens. And to make things worse, Human Fall Flat has gotten DLC that will likely go into the Japanese print that isn't in the Super Rare print. So yeah they will get backlash. And I find it hard to believe that this won't happen with other games, like if I had to predict which one this could happen with next, I'd say it's Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime. 

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

There is certainly nothing wrong with not wanting to get every single release from LRG and all of the similar companies, but I can't comprehend how anyone could argue that they aren't part of the full set.  They are fully licensed games.  There is really nothing to debate.  When this generation is all said and done, there will be a very small number of people (if any) with a full PS4 set.  It's simply going to be too difficult to piece all of these games together.  I don't see that as a bad thing.  For those people who are full set collectors, it kind of sucks, but that's how full set collecting works.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with subset collecting.  But going for every PS4 game that wasn't released under one of the many limited print companies, is simply a subset of the PS4 library.  It won't be a full set.  

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

47 minutes ago, MiamiSlice said:

Just got the latest newsletter from Super Rare and the second half is a doozy I figured you should all read. Context: Human Fall Flat was their first game and they have a strict limit of 5k copies per release. Since then (it was 2 years ago), this game has become a massive hit, selling millions in the digital markets. Just recently it was announced that it's getting a physical release in Japan, meaning this is the first Super Rare game to break their exclusivity. Here's how George from Super Rare is addressing it: 

I think making hard promises is always dangerous. This is no exception. It doesn't bother me personally but I know a lot of people who buy these games HATE when this happens. And to make things worse, Human Fall Flat has gotten DLC that will likely go into the Japanese print that isn't in the Super Rare print. So yeah they will get backlash. And I find it hard to believe that this won't happen with other games, like if I had to predict which one this could happen with next, I'd say it's Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime. 

This is why I prefer LRG's strategy.  They will only complete one print of any game that they publish, but they never prevent the developer from publishing the game again at a later date with a different company if they wish.  This is the best strategy for both the buyers and the developers.  The buyers know up front that more copies of the game could come down the road later, but they also know that the LRG branded version will always be unique.  The developers also win because they are never locked into one print, just in case their game becomes huge or popular.  

[avatar! | 1,819]

Thanks all, that's very interesting! I have to say, that's a unique model but as noted doesn't seem very... well, good. Certainly not speedy. Don't get me wrong, I wish them all the success in the world. But this reminds me a bit of kickstarter. You know, where many games are 3+ years behind schedule...

Yeah, in retrospect, LRG is definitely a blessing to most of us! I'll keep supporting them. 

[MiamiSlice | 3,097]

56 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

This is why I prefer LRG's strategy.  They will only complete one print of any game that they publish, but they never prevent the developer from publishing the game again at a later date with a different company if they wish.  This is the best strategy for both the buyers and the developers.  The buyers know up front that more copies of the game could come down the road later, but they also know that the LRG branded version will always be unique.  The developers also win because they are never locked into one print, just in case their game becomes huge or popular.  

At least Super Rare only called themselves "super rare." If Strictly Limited Games ever has this happen to one of their releases, that would be a bridge too far. 

[O.G. CIB | 415]

1 hour ago, MiamiSlice said:

At least Super Rare only called themselves "super rare." If Strictly Limited Games ever has this happen to one of their releases, that would be a bridge too far. 

Lol hasn’t this already happen to 2 or 3 of their games.... Bubble Bobble and Ninja Something comes to mind.... They are in the same pot

[MiamiSlice | 3,097]

1 hour ago, Mr. CIB said:

Lol hasn’t this already happen to 2 or 3 of their games.... Bubble Bobble and Ninja Something comes to mind.... They are in the same pot

Yep I was kidding, I have the EU retail release of Bubble Bobble CE. Strictly Limited didn't even have an exclusive deal on the CEs. 

[avatar! | 1,819]

Black Bird

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by avatar!

[MiamiSlice | 3,097]

Definitely getting Black Bird. Don’t know anything about Clannad.

[avatar! | 1,819]

47 minutes ago, N64 Gamer said:

Clannad is a visual novel, so definitely not for everybody. But in the Visual Novel Database it's ranked the 9th highest game of all time, and has a huge fanbase. So it will probably be very popular I can imagine.

I looked this up on wikipedia

Clannad's story revolves around Tomoya Okazaki, a third year high school student who dislikes his life.

I mean, isn't that the premise behind 99% of Japanese anime/games? Complete obsession with high school the Japanese have 

Definitely not my type of game, but of course to each their own! 

[MiamiSlice | 3,097]

2 hours ago, avatar! said:

I looked this up on wikipedia

Clannad's story revolves around Tomoya Okazaki, a third year high school student who dislikes his life.

I mean, isn't that the premise behind 99% of Japanese anime/games? Complete obsession with high school the Japanese have 

Definitely not my type of game, but of course to each their own! 

It's not so much an obsession with high school as it is an obsession with coming of age, but also, most of the animes / mangas that we hear about come from Shonen Jump and similar magazines that are targeted to this age group (literally Shonen manga is targeted to young teen males and Shojo is the equivalent for teen girls). The demographic that reads Shonen Jump for example is mostly teens too. So most of these stories have characters that are the same age as the audience. 

[avatar! | 1,819]

Here's a bit of history behind visual novels

https://medium.com/mammon-machine-zeal/a-brief-history-of-visual-novels-641a2e6b1acb

Supposedly visual novels were "invented" in Japan. Although I question if this is really true. What about Zork and other games? Aren't they basically visual novels? Or are they considered "interactive novels"? How is this really different than Monkey Island and other LucasArts classics? Meh.

At any rate, I can certainly enjoy this genre, but definitely not into teen angst games. Now, a remake of Snatcher, that I could get into...

[noiseredux | 232]

I would say Zork is a text adventure. And in Monkey Island etc you control an avatar. VN's feel like choose-your-own-adventures with pictures, to me.

[avatar! | 1,819]

5 minutes ago, noiseredux said:

I would say Zork is a text adventure. And in Monkey Island etc you control an avatar. VN's feel like choose-your-own-adventures with pictures, to me.

Hmm, so Oregon Trail then is a visual novel? 

What about Shadowgate? Seems like the difference between "point and click" games and VNs are somewhat murky. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by avatar!