Game Debate #94: Chrono Cross

[Reed Rothchild | 9,675]

[AstralSoul | 506]

I haven't played it in about 20 years but I remember liking it a lot. With the HD remaster on the way out soon I'm not nearly as excited as I should be, I'm not a big rpg guy anymore and thinking about it, I think it's still a great game just not a top rpg like Chrono Trigger, FF7 and the like. 8/10

[MagusSmurf | 577]

-Great visuals and soundtrack (but with the latter slightly marred by having one of the worst JRPG battle themes on the PS1 - of course the stinker would be the song you’ll be hearing the most)

-A battle system with some decent ideas that gets by well enough on being different but that doesn’t really come together as anything that special.

-50-gazillion joinable characters-CHA with annoying accents-CHA and anorexic height and weight stats-CHA that are just along for the ride-CHA in a game with mere three-person parties where you can’t even switch out the main-CHA. Seemed like they had way more wacky party member ideas-CHA than the game had any real use for either in plot or gameplay but stuffed them all in anyways-CHA. Kind of fun but I was like PLEASE STOP when it had four more characters-CHA join me in the space of a single cutscene-CHA. And while I think the silent protagonist is actually kind of artistically justified here-CHA, having one of those with most of the rest of the group being one off jokes doesn’t exactly lead to compelling cast chemistry-CHA.

-A really weird kind of incoherent story. I respect the themes and ambition here and the way the game keeps upending itself but the pacing could certainly be better and for all that the weirdness can be a draw, I think the game end up playing its cards too close to the chest.  And yeah the characters mostly being like THAT-CHA (okay I’ll stop I promise) didn’t help. seemed like they ran out of time or something in development, hence why they had to give all that vital exposition to weird NPCs immediately before the final boss. Not great execution there! I only played the game once though (so yeah I didn’t New Game+ and so missed the alternate endings and other minor content) and maybe the story will come off a little better if I play the whole thing again basically already knowing where it’s going with all this.

-In a lot of ways not much of an effective followup to Chrono Trigger but eh, let CC be its own thing.

i was annoyed at a lot of things in this game during my one playthrough but it’s such a bizarre singular experience with some strong positives as well that I look back on it positively.

”But is it better than Chrono Trigger or some of Square’s top PS1 games?”

oh god no

[rdrunner | 425]

I plan on trying this eventually.  Have heard the soundtrack though, which was awesome.

[Webhead123 | 692]

I was late to the party with the Playstation. When I finally acquired one in the early '00s, this was one of the handful of games that was lumped in with it. I played only a couple hours into it before drifting off to other things but I do remember thinking fairly highly of it at the time. That intro cinematic and incredible score really drew you in like no other. Still, it's been 20 years since I've even looked at the game, so I have no clue how well it holds up. So, I'm giving it a "slightly above average" score for being initially impressive but not a game that really impacted my hobby significantly.

6/10

[Estil | 1,281]

I always heard this was the New Coke version of Chrono Trigger...  

[Webhead123 | 692]

4 hours ago, Estil said:

I always heard this was the New Coke version of Chrono Trigger...  

If you've never read anything in detail about it, you should take a closer look at the "New Coke" debacle. The lesson there is essentially that marketing is everything and people get incredibly defensive if you threaten to change something they're comfortable with. It's rather unfortunate. I actually liked New Coke and kinda wish they still made it.

Long story short, all their blind taste-testing and market research told them that people almost universally preferred New Coke...but their mistake was announcing their plan for it to fully replace Classic Coke. Shit, meet fan. If they had instead marketed it as simply another variety of Coke (like Diet Coke, Caffine-Free Coke, Cherry Coke, etc.), it probably would have found its consumer base and continued on for years.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Webhead123

[Estil | 1,281]

1 hour ago, Webhead123 said:

If you've never read anything in detail about it, you should take a closer look at the "New Coke" debacle. The lesson there is essentially that marketing is everything and people get incredibly defensive if you threaten to change something they're comfortable with. It's rather unfortunate. I actually liked New Coke and kinda wish they still made it.

New Coke WAS in fact available in some regions for several years after (but was renamed "Coke II").  And yes I do know the story...like how they did taste tests years prior to New Coke's release showing that not only was New Coke preferred over old Coke and Pepsi...but a surprising number said they would be totally fine with New Coke replacing old Coke!  I think the main problem was that they tried to make it more like Pepsi.  Folks, if I want a Pepsi-like soda, I'll get a Pepsi.  Just like in regards to some cats being called "dog-like" (what an insult to the feline species!!); if I wanted a "dog-like" pet, I'd get a dog.

But Coke completely underestimated the fact that it wasn't just some drink, it was an honest to goodness symbol of Americana and some who called/wrote to complain about the New Coke felt it was no different than burning/stomping/spitting on Old Glory itself.

I've always been very much all my life in the (Diet) Pepsi Generation regardless.  

PS: I especially love that line some top Coke guy gave when asked if this was some sort of publicity stunt (you know, the whole "you don't know what you have till it's gone kinda deal?), he replied we are not that stupid nor are we that smart!

Edited March 26, 2022 by Estil

[docile tapeworm | 4,209]

Game broke my heart. I was jacked when I first heard about it. I anticipated the release like no other. I remember buying it with my own money, earned from pushing carts at Winn Dixie.

man I bet I didn’t put in more than 4 hours. Never touched it again…. I was crushed. Chrono Trigger was to good. I couldn’t and still can’t play it as it’s own game.

[Gloves | 11,981]

Never played it. 

[Tanooki | 4,968]

Never played it either, but as it looks like a physical Switch release is upcoming like Live-A-Live is getting I probably will give it a try at that time.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

I haven't played it since release but I remember being pretty disappointed. It's colorful and has some interesting mechanics, but it definitely didn't live up to its predecessor.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

Never played it and probably won't. I don't have the time/patience for RPGs anymore.

[The Count | 550]

I recall enjoying finding secret items and abilities as well as trying to collect every playable character. Maybe I should try it again sometime as I never did beat it. 7/10.

[Kguillemette | 1,567]

 This game was so stunningly beautiful when it first came out. I loved collecting the new characters and playing around with their backstories. The tropical setting is and was so much fun to explore and just be a part of. 

That being said, the secondary characters are so all over the place. Some are well developed and tie to the main story nicely and others are just there and something to get. Regardless, they all need to jump into the main party ASAP given the lame "one level per boss fight" mechanic. Party members that are unused for large portions of game, and that number adds up quick, will be permanently relegated to the bench just for being mostly useless in battle. Especially in comparison to other party members that spend more time in the main unit.

The story is a well paced fine and mysterious adventure with lots of quirky tasks and epic battles along the way. Well, it is for the first 3/4 of the game. After that it all stopped making sense and then it tied in to Chrono Trigger right before the final battle. Rather poorly I might add. 

I personally am a big fan of the battle system. I like how while it is turn based, it almost feels like an action RPG. If time and resource management are gameplay aspects you enjoy, this battle system might be an all time great for an rpg. Towards the end of the game, especially with how nonsensical the plot becomes, I found myself continuing to play for the battle system itself rather than seeing what happen next in the story.

Overall I give this a 6/10. I really enjoyed playing it, and there is so much to like. It could have been a stone cold classic on a system jam packed with them. But the bad parts keep it from being truly great. It's one of the cheaper PS1 RPGs that are at least pretty good. If you wanted to explore this era, you could do worse with you bang for your buck.

[peg | 380]

As a sequel to chrono trigger its a complete mess, but it's not an awful game if you can disassociate it from CT. The music is legendary.

 

5/10.

[Estil | 1,281]

1 hour ago, peg said:

As a sequel to chrono trigger its a complete mess, but it's not an awful game if you can disassociate it from CT. The music is legendary.

 

5/10.

Like I said, this game seems to have the most "New Coke" kind of rep more than any other.  New Chrono is nowhere near as great and legendary as Chrono Classic (Trigger), is it?  

[Estil | 1,281]

On 3/26/2022 at 12:02 PM, Webhead123 said:

I was late to the party with the Playstation. When I finally acquired one in the early '00s, this was one of the handful of games that was lumped in with it.

Welcome to the club!  I too didn't get a PS1 until my college days 2000, 2001ish and I remember opening that silver box ($100 new at the time; it was that cheap) and getting the controller and such out and I couldn't find the console at first and when I did I couldn't get over how TINY that shrunk down "PSOne" was!  I got started with the MegaMan games though...back when you could get three packs of 8/X4/X5 or the Legends Trilogy for $50 each...THOSE were the days!  Thank GOD I still have those Legends games from my college years *hugs them*  

[Nintegageo | 582]

7. The soundtrack rocks.

[Hammerfestus | 3,963]

I started this but didn’t make it very far.  Never picked it back up.  I probably should.  But judging by the poll maybe not.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,675]

I might abstain from voting for now.  I played through about half of it once upon a time, but ran out of momentum for a couple reasons.

For one, I was getting massively confused by the parallel worlds.  I could never keep track of what was happening where.

Two, I could never master the battle system.  I don't remember the specifics, but "aligning" the colors was something that almost never seemed to happen.

And the level up system?  Good lord, what were they thinking?

Still, I plan on revisiting on Switch and finally closing this out.  This time with no expectations around comparing it to Chrono Trigger in any shape or form.

And the soundtrack is indeed incredible.  It's my go-to for when my kids want music to fall asleep to.

[Tanooki | 4,968]

I just ordered the physical release of this on PlayAsia, when it arrives in over a month, maybe if someone dusts this off after I'll vote.

Been curious about this, but also the SFC Radical Dreamers so it'll be a good fresh thing to attempt.

[MagusSmurf | 577]

https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Underweight:_The_BMIs_of_Chrono_Cross.html

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