NES RPGs

[Crabmaster2000 | 512]

Trying to come up with a list of all the RPGs on the system (licensed library only) and want a little feedback. I'm fairly confident in my list with the exception of 4 games. They aren't as cut and dry as the rest, but they share enough in common I'm kind of leaning towards including them. So I'd love to hear opinions on what does and doesn't belong on this list. Please don't just write "X doesn't belong" or "Y does belong". Elaborate on your answer. "X doesn't belong because of 1. yadda 2.yadda 3. yadda"

Main list is first and the 4 I'm more on the fence about are separated at the end. 

 

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Heroes of the Lance

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Hillsfar

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Pool of Radiance

Crystalis

Deadly Towers

Defender of the Crown

Destiny of an Emperor

Dragon Warrior

Dragon Warrior II

Dragon Warrior III

Dragon Warrior IV

Dungeon Magic

Faria: A world of Mystery and Danger

Faxanadu

Final Fantasy

Flying Warriors

Gargoyle’s Quest II

Hydlide

Legacy of the Wizard

Legend of Ghost Lion

Little Ninja Brothers

Magic of Scheherazade

Might & Magic: Secret of the Inner Sanctum

Rambo

Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves

Star Tropics

Star Tropics 2: Zoda’s Revenge

Swords & Serpents

Tecmo Cup Soccer

The Bard’s Tale

The Battle of Olympus

The Legend of Zelda

Times of Lore

Tombs & Treasure

Ultima Exodus

Ultima Quest of the Avatar

Ultima Warriors of Destiny

Willow

Wizardry: Knight of Diamonds

Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord

Zelda II: The Adventures of Link

Would you count these games as RPGs?
 

Cowboy Kid?

Pirates! ?

River City Ransom ?

Uncharted Waters?

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

I don't think Pirates! counts because it's really a simulation.  It was designed for and originally published on home computers as a simulation, then, much to my amazement, ported to consoles later on in life.  You don't gain any experience, really "level up" or any such thing as a character, so I don't think it would ever really count.

I also don't think River City Ransom counts, as it fits far better in the "beat 'em up" category than the RPG one, although it does feature some RPG-esque elements.  If you wouldn't consider Double Dragon, I wouldn't consider River City Ransom one either, as those two games are far more similar than RCR is to any traditional RPG.

[ifightdragons | 234]

Good job on the list!

Some feedback:

River City Ransom is not an RPG. It's an action/brawler with some RPG elements.

Pirates! is a simulation/adventure game. It has a lot of RPG mechanics, but isn't enough to classify as such.

The same goes for The Legend of Zelda. It's an action adventure, with some RPG elements.

Arguably, almost every single game ever has some RPG elements.

Sidenote:

Games that start with "The" should be alphabetized in order of the next word. The Legend of Zelda would fall under "L".

Edited December 16, 2021 by ifightdragons

[NostalgicMachine | 269]

Solid list, OP! Some may not be straight RPG, but contain RPG elements. I never cared for the distinction, because I always loved leveling up in games.

Final Fantasy is still a blast on the NES.

[glazball | 175]

Surprised to see Tecmo Cup Soccer Game but I admit I've never really given it any time and don't know much about it.  Is it truly an RPG or (like many others) just have RPG elements?  Great list, thanks for sharing it!

[Tulpa | 3,580]

8 minutes ago, glazball said:

Surprised to see Tecmo Cup Soccer Game but I admit I've never really given it any time and don't know much about it.  Is it truly an RPG or (like many others) just have RPG elements?  Great list, thanks for sharing it!

RPG elements. It's definitely unlike the other soccer games, with its quasi-turn based gameplay.

 

 

[fox | 1,706]

Cowboy Kid is a a straight up action adventure game.  There are no rpg elements.

[Crabmaster2000 | 512]

Lots of great comments already! Really appreciate it everyone. Keep those opinion rolling on in!

[Tanooki | 4,971]

I think the problem here is how do you define what is an RPG?

Is it the western approach of the Wizardry/DnD/Ultima style stuff along with your JRPG stuff with FF/DW(Q)/Ghost Lion/Hydlide?

Do you add in also other strictly turn based stuff like the KOEI etc sims you play a role in your game such as a chinese or japanese warlord or a pirate?

Then you get into the murkiness of RPG elements in another genre like Zelda and Crystalis which are adventures with active play as is Ys on Famicom too, or you have RPG elements with action like River City Ransom and to be fair even Castlevania II if that counts...those are what later turned into your metroidvania types really action, buy/sell gear, level up, get stronger.

 

EDIT: I see sports thrown in with that Tecmo title... well if playing the role of commanding a team as such fits, would not Baseball Stars fit then?  Sure you play the game, but you equally play as the actual team manager sorting rosters, planning seasons, player trades, pinch hitters, pulling pitchers, etc.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Tanooki

[Crabmaster2000 | 512]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

I think the problem here is how do you define what is an RPG?

Is it the western approach of the Wizardry/DnD/Ultima style stuff along with your JRPG stuff with FF/DW(Q)/Ghost Lion/Hydlide?

Do you add in also other strictly turn based stuff like the KOEI etc sims you play a role in your game such as a chinese or japanese warlord or a pirate?

Then you get into the murkiness of RPG elements in another genre like Zelda and Crystalis which are adventures with active play as is Ys on Famicom too, or you have RPG elements with action like River City Ransom and to be fair even Castlevania II if that counts...those are what later turned into your metroidvania types really action, buy/sell gear, level up, get stronger.

 

EDIT: I see sports thrown in with that Tecmo title... well if playing the role of commanding a team as such fits, would not Baseball Stars fit then?  Sure you play the game, but you equally play as the actual team manager sorting rosters, planning seasons, player trades, pinch hitters, pulling pitchers, etc.

Tecmo Cup Soccer is quite a bit different. You follow a main protagonist through a story (or quest if you will), gain exp/stats, and the play is done as a traditional turn based jrpg style. You could argue its RPG merits, but comparing it to any other sports game on the NES I don't think works. 

I thought about strategy games and I think the thing that makes me not include them is that you essentially are a god controlling events and not following any characters are even a narrative in most of them. The only one I really considered was Gemfire. 

Zelda and Hydlide are so close to being the same game, but most people don't want to include Zelda as an RPG, but have no problem with Hydlide. I really can't understand why. Any insights into that?

Edited December 15, 2021 by Crabmaster2000
spellz

[WhyNotZoidberg | 590]

ok wow now I have to play Tecmo Cup Soccer

 

But now I'm thinking: is Tag Team Wrestling an RPG? Moves are selected through a menu.

Is Flying Dragon: The Secret Scroll an RPG? You gain abilities as you progress and some bosses can only be taken down with the proper moves.

[Crabmaster2000 | 512]

15 minutes ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

ok wow now I have to play Tecmo Cup Soccer

 

But now I'm thinking: is Tag Team Wrestling an RPG? Moves are selected through a menu.

Is Flying Dragon: The Secret Scroll an RPG? You gain abilities as you progress and some bosses can only be taken down with the proper moves.

I don't include Tag Team because there is no narrative or character growth. Flying Dragon someone could maybe make a better argument for, but after playing Flying Warrior it just leans very hard into RPG stuff that makes Flying Dragon seem just like an action game with a very loose definition of character growth. 

 

And Tecmo Cup Soccer is very cool. I don't know if it's worth playing through the whole thing, but its absolutely worth putting a couple hours into.

[Strikezone1 | 156]

Ahh RPGs... They are not my cup of tea. Lol

I'd consider LoZ, Zelda II, Gargoyle's Quest II, Rambo, & Cowboy Kid all action-adventure games as opposed to RPGs.

RCR is a beat'em up/action-adventure/RPG hybrid game IMO.

[Tanooki | 4,971]

5 hours ago, Crabmaster2000 said:

Cut 1

Cut 2

Zelda and Hydlide are so close to being the same game, but most people don't want to include Zelda as an RPG, but have no problem with Hydlide. I really can't understand why. Any insights into that?

1 and 2 I agree, fair enough.  My only insight, Hydlide and Zelda are fairly similar, but I'd think to call that game more close to Ultima in its stiff overhead RPG-ish nature than Zelda which is more of a pure free flowing adventure game with RPG elements, and truly thin ones at that since you don't actually have real stats persay, just better gear and life bonuses.  Zelda II is more an RPG than the first, and even I'd argue that's not one, just like Ys isn't nor is Ys 3 which is Zelda 2s cousin in crime basically.

I do feel strongly that if something like River City Ransom made a list, so should Castlevania II given the mechanics, the same kind of mechanics that do apply to one you put up top...Faxanadu.

[Hammerfestus | 3,964]

I like the pretty broad net you’re casting for your RPG list.  I’m a collector.  I collect games compulsively.  Buying more games is kind of my thing.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,101]

How is Zelda 1 an RPG?  Link never gets stronger in any way.  Sure, he gets better items and equipment as the game goes on, but at the end of the game, he is the exact same character as he was when he started.  And there are no turned based battles to boot, not that that is a dead-set requirement, but I honestly can't think of a single reason that Zelda 1 would be an RPG.  Zelda II, sure, lots of arguments to be made, but in Zelda 1, Link doesn't even have magic.  It's got a "narrative" but so do a bagillion other NES games.  Can someone give me a single argument as to why Zelda 1 should be classified as an RPG?  If Zelda 1 is an RPG, so is about 95% of the NES library...

Edited December 16, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[NostalgicMachine | 269]

I think it's argued that since you increase your health capacity, as well as "armor" through the game, etc. Metroid falls under this as well. I think Zelda is usually considered an action adventure with RPG elements? I agree on the lack of turn-based battles, though.

Zelda II is most certainly in closer alignment with RPG elements overall.

[Sumez | 3,037]

Tecmo Cup definitely fits all the standard tropes, the setting is just playing sports instead of fighting monsters, so keep it in for sure.

RPG is such a hard genre to describe due to what everyone has already said in here about elements of the genre being common in almost all other genres as well, especially looking at games released nowadays. Like, if Zelda II is an RPG for letting your character level up, doesn't that mean God of War or Jedi Fallen Order are RPGs?
I think it's kind of an amalgamation of multiple things, and above all else if you think the game feels like an RPG, and it seems like that's what the developers were going for, you can call it that.  And if people are gonna argue whether the game is an RPG or not, it probably fails on some points.

[NostalgicMachine | 269]

It's definitely a nebulous term until one specified turn-based RPG vs action adventure RPG, I think.

Final Fantasy being the former, Zelda II being the latter, etc.

[PII | 1,925]

Yeah, ask a hundred different people what constitutes an RPG and get 100 different answers.  I always thought Defender of the crown was a strategy game which is to say rpg-like in some ways, but definitely not an RPG to me.

In my day The Legend Of Zelda was referred to as an Action-RPG.  There is a large open world to explore.  For me this factor along with the particular sort of excitement that comes with exploring such a world is what defines an RPG more than anything else.  Link also has to seek out and explore dungeons, find hidden items, upgrade his weapons etc. all consistent with an RPG...

Games not yet mentioned:

Stanley: the search for dr. Livingston: Metroid/Vania style (we really need to come up with a new name for this.) Stanley navigates a grid of the Congo accessing each grid point for Zelda 2 style play.  There are dungeons, weapon upgrades, armor, keys, talking to people, towns, lots of hidden stuff, having to take your donut up the sacred mountain to get properly basted in cherry slurpy before turning it over to the village elder to consume so he can feed it to his sick daughter saving her life and making him so grateful he gives you the magical squoink that's been secretly kept in his family for generations.... yeah that kind of stuff.

Milon's Secret Castle: Semi-Open World.  Instead of an overworld map its an upright castle map.  Dungeons are accessed through doors, windows, secret passages.  There are shops to buy things.  Lots of hidden items.  Keys to find.  Milon must upgrade his bubble gun throughout, obtain special armor to pass through fire, upgrade his life meter, acquire various new abilities to progress...

Castlevania II: Without it, there would not be the term: "Metroid/Vania."

This last one is just hearsay, but I have heard someone claim that Baseball Stars is effectively RBI Baseball crossed with Final Fantasy.  Something to do with Playing multiple seasons and the ability to buy sell and trade players.....

[Crabmaster2000 | 512]

7 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

How is Zelda 1 an RPG?  Link never gets stronger in any way.  Sure, he gets better items and equipment as the game goes on, but at the end of the game, he is the exact same character as he was when he started.  And there are no turned based battles to boot, not that that is a dead-set requirement, but I honestly can't think of a single reason that Zelda 1 would be an RPG.  Zelda II, sure, lots of arguments to be made, but in Zelda 1, Link doesn't even have magic.  It's got a "narrative" but so do a bagillion other NES games.  Can someone give me a single argument as to why Zelda 1 should be classified as an RPG?  If Zelda 1 is an RPG, so is about 95% of the NES library...

Do you feel the same way about Hydlide? 

[Jeevan | 9,094]

Some very good games in here .  Maybe give your reasoning behind each one?  MAYBE you should do a small write up for each one  like @Reed Rothchild.  He keeps trying to get me to do N64.

[Crabmaster2000 | 512]

18 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

Some very good games in here .  Maybe give your reasoning behind each one?  MAYBE you should do a small write up for each one  like @Reed Rothchild.  He keeps trying to get me to do N64.

I intend to to a big write up for each one. That's why I want to figure out what my list looks like before I begin. I'm kind of leaning to include as much as possible and then if someone doesn't think LoZ should be there they can just skip over that and go to the next part, but for someone who does think it belongs then bam it's there. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,101]

2 hours ago, Crabmaster2000 said:

Do you feel the same way about Hydlide? 

The character in Hydlide uses magic, but more importantly, he becomes intrinsically stronger as he levels up throughout the game, so Hydlide is more like Zelda II to me: an action/adventure game with RPG elements.  Tons of games have RPG elements, but the delineating factor, in my book, has always been the question of whether the character becomes intrinsically stronger/better/different throughout the game/story or not.  If he does (like Zelda II), but the battles aren't turn-based, then that's where it gets muddy: is it an action-RPG or just an action-adventure with RPG elements?  As someone mentioned a little earlier, Link gains a larger health bar from picking up heart containers during his adventure in Zelda 1, so I guess that's one single RPG element in a game that in all other ways is an action-adventure game to me...

[mbd39 | 2,039]

If River City Ransom is an RPG then so are Rygar and Simon's Quest.