Deadeye | 1,598 Homebrew Team · Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 For an AS-IS listing, personally I think that is the gamble and you have to keep it. Exceptions would be if the sent item was not the pictured item or the description was vastly different. Sometimes I see listings as "untested" that is a different animal. The sale terms, may not be "as-is", and in that case I would return it if broken (unless it was "untested", but listed additional as-is). I expect as-is to be a deep discount because of the terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki | 4,954 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 AS-IS to me already would have meant 50/50 it works or doesn't (at best.) If it's something I really wanted, and the price seemed nice, I would have mailed the person on their internal system and tried to get any details. Depending on the tone and detail of the response I would have gone ahead or stopped. Even if it came back as originally USED, but the description says AS-IS, that's a red flag I would hope anyone would notice and start asking questions (in your mind, if not to the seller) and choose your fate from there. You already said you're going to leave it be, so it's a bit late, but that's how I'd handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOURTURN | 1,257 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, RH said: I may be getting screwed here, but I'd rather take the high road in case I am the one who made the mistake. It still stings, though. The literal rule of thumb I can give you is to never treat something like this as a defeat. You have gained useful information in regards to how eBay allows things to be done, and can possibly use the item as a self-teaching tool before you either toss it, store it, or sell it for parts. People often ignore this because not many are patient enough to do so these days. And I say that based on the rebuilding of my game collection, along with a number of additional events. I agree it stings, but I also have found that it also helps make the next attempt a better one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmorgandrinker | 1,650 Administrator · Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 Yeah, for "as-is" you're pretty much expected to need to fix something on it. I sell stuff that I can't test like that as "parts-only", then if it works you're pleasantly surprised! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIRunner | 2,781 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 25 minutes ago, Deadeye said: I expect as-is to be a deep discount because of the terms. This was the other thing I meant to say. Since I consider "as is" to be a gamble, I also would expect any "as is" item to be heavily discounted. If a seller doesn't want to take the time to test it, they should expect a lot less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRobot | 5,842 Events Team · Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 3 hours ago, RH said: my main concern is what does "AS-IS" mean to most people. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic | 215 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 41 minutes ago, TDIRunner said: I consider "as is" to be the same as "bring a trailer." Same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic | 215 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 41 minutes ago, TDIRunner said: I consider "as is" to be the same as "bring a trailer." Same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 The hilarious thing is when people have a ton of game stuff for sale then just one random console “as-is” or untested. You got (3) working NES, 20 working TG16 hu cards and one sega genesis “untested/ As-is”? Savage 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkchylde28 | 1,546 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 Disregarding all the arguing over the semantics of what "as-is" means, I would advise to try to return it, even if you're willing to take the hit. The description on the auction says it was "pulled from a working environment," and THEN mentions "unable to test." If it was plugged up and working when you unplugged it, that's the description! "Verified working when removed from installed environment." If it was working when it was pulled, there's no need to verify it after the fact, as you're aware that it works. The fact that the guy listed three units this way and all as "as-is" THEN backpedaled about how the one you bought was the only one that would respond to power is very telling, and I believe any eBay reviewer with any sense would side with you on a return in a heartbeat. I've purchased several Extron units (although not the specific one that you purchased) and can advise that a LOT of their stuff is built to be mounted in a rack and as such, built like tanks. In all the units I've had personal experience with, there's exactly zero inside that could be knocked loose during shipping unless there was obvious, destructive damage to the 1/8" steel case the innards are secured to from the inside. Power issues like what you're describing wouldn't be caused by anything involving its transit from the seller to you unless the seller packed something decently heavy inside to be roll around as UPS/FedEx/USPS threw the box around. Look at it this way, a more honest and accurate description would have been, "Plugged one in which powered on, the other two are totally non-responsive, don't have connectors to test audio/video, sold as-is." The seller clearly knew they had potential trash on their hands and fudged their descriptions in both title and the body of the listing to avoid saying this and make it seem like hey, last they knew, all three of these units totally worked. Per the communications they sent you (hopefully through eBay messaging), they knew that wasn't the case when they set up the listing and thus should be on the hook for a full return for your unit. As others have briefly mentioned, if they knew some weren't working, that should have been mentioned and the listing should have been for non-working/parts only instead of used/as-is. Let us know what you ultimately decide, if you aren't absolutely concrete on the decision just yet, as you absolutely shouldn't be on the hook for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkchylde28 | 1,546 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 3 hours ago, MrWunderful said: The hilarious thing is when people have a ton of game stuff for sale then just one random console “as-is” or untested. You got (3) working NES, 20 working TG16 hu cards and one sega genesis “untested/ As-is”? Savage It's even better when they have all the hookups shown in photos of the listing; the absolute best ones have those type of photos of the specific item then specific text saying "no hookups, can't test, untested, as-is." Yeah, ok, lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH | 4,987 Posted May 25, 2021 Author Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, darkchylde28 said: Disregarding all the arguing over the semantics of what "as-is" means, I would advise to try to return it, even if you're willing to take the hit. The description on the auction says it was "pulled from a working environment," and THEN mentions "unable to test." If it was plugged up and working when you unplugged it, that's the description! "Verified working when removed from installed environment." If it was working when it was pulled, there's no need to verify it after the fact, as you're aware that it works. The fact that the guy listed three units this way and all as "as-is" THEN backpedaled about how the one you bought was the only one that would respond to power is very telling, and I believe any eBay reviewer with any sense would side with you on a return in a heartbeat. I've purchased several Extron units (although not the specific one that you purchased) and can advise that a LOT of their stuff is built to be mounted in a rack and as such, built like tanks. In all the units I've had personal experience with, there's exactly zero inside that could be knocked loose during shipping unless there was obvious, destructive damage to the 1/8" steel case the innards are secured to from the inside. Power issues like what you're describing wouldn't be caused by anything involving its transit from the seller to you unless the seller packed something decently heavy inside to be roll around as UPS/FedEx/USPS threw the box around. Look at it this way, a more honest and accurate description would have been, "Plugged one in which powered on, the other two are totally non-responsive, don't have connectors to test audio/video, sold as-is." The seller clearly knew they had potential trash on their hands and fudged their descriptions in both title and the body of the listing to avoid saying this and make it seem like hey, last they knew, all three of these units totally worked. Per the communications they sent you (hopefully through eBay messaging), they knew that wasn't the case when they set up the listing and thus should be on the hook for a full return for your unit. As others have briefly mentioned, if they knew some weren't working, that should have been mentioned and the listing should have been for non-working/parts only instead of used/as-is. Let us know what you ultimately decide, if you aren't absolutely concrete on the decision just yet, as you absolutely shouldn't be on the hook for this. Aha! When I traced emails through my original Offer for the item, I was able to find a cached version of the sale! This was marked as USED not AS-IS! I'm returning it. I knew I wouldn't have bought something like this AS-IS but I was willing to take the hit just in case I missed it. Everyone, lesson learned, if you hit a BIN for an item with multiple items for sale, the seller can change the description after your purchase. I'm glad eBay does provide a means of seeing the historical listing, but I didn't see it until I hit the page from my original For Offer submission. EDIT Below is a screenshot of the cached description, cached the day I bought it which, coincidentally, was the day they changed the description, according to eBay logs. Maybe this did work. However, the fact that it's listed "USED" and they way they worded it was "pulled from a working environment", I do have every right to return this. Edited May 25, 2021 by RH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docile tapeworm | 4,204 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 i know i have tried to justify throwing a fit over something that was completely my fault due to my own poor judgement before. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH | 4,987 Posted May 25, 2021 Author Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, docile tapeworm said: i know i have tried to justify throwing a fit over something that was completely my fault due to my own poor judgement before. Are you speaking to me? Because I did start this discussion assuming I made an AS-IS purchase, but upon deeper digging, I didn't. It was marked "used" and the sellers description does mention this coming from a "working environment". I filed for a refund and we've had a couple exchanges. He's still trying to say "it worked for me!" And not wanting to return it. I'll eat the cost if I made the mistake, but that screenshot above is proof-positive I bought a used item and the current listing, with dates shows they modified the listing AFTER I completed the purchase. Repeat, I actually DID NOT make an AS-IS purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Tank | 974 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, RH said: Are you speaking to me? Because I did start this discussion assuming I made an AS-IS purchase, but upon deeper digging, I didn't. It was marked "used" and the sellers description does mention this coming from a "working environment". I filed for a refund and we've had a couple exchanges. He's still trying to say "it worked for me!" And not wanting to return it. I'll eat the cost if I made the mistake, but that screenshot above is proof-positive I bought a used item and the current listing, with dates shows they modified the listing AFTER I completed the purchase. Repeat, I actually DID NOT make an AS-IS purchase. Your second paragraph first sentence in the original post says you bought "As is" and so does your thread title. I'm not attacking you, but you are giving some mixed signals here. Edited May 25, 2021 by Mega Tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Tank | 974 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 I have never seen the phrase "Pulled from a working environment, unable to test" before and would certainly open the door to some questions before purchase. The "unable to test", in amy case, could simply be a seller's laziness to test or legitimate inability to do so (missing power cord or no games for a system to test). Used, to me, just indicated the items is not new. If you can't test, you shouldn't label "For Parts" because there is the possibility it may work. Some people may want to specifically buy something "for parts" or junk because they want to pick some parts our or do a project. If you feel you were sold something other than what you thoughf you were buying, just file with eBay and let them decide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH | 4,987 Posted May 25, 2021 Author Share Posted May 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mega Tank said: Your second paragraph first sentence in the original post says you bought "As is" and so does your thread title. I'm not attacking you, but you are giving some mixed signals here. Sorry, I wasn't trying to sound combative. I was just pointing out that if Skinny was (jokingly, I'm sure) trying to throw a little shade, I had just posted and update showing the details and that This wasn't listed AS-IS. I know how eBay's terms work. I will buy "Used" but untested equipment that does not have AS-IS in the description and return it if it doesn't work. As a seller, I have had to sell some untested stuff, mostly games for consoles I don't known. If I list it used, I will (and have) excepted returns without argument because I listed them as used rather than AS-IS. So, I'm feeling justified in my return request now that I double-checked myself. More on this story is unfolding, though. I am on my mobile. I need to take more screenshots and prove that my request for a refund is warranted. The seller is saying the spoke with eBay and they changed the description before the sell. I'm not sure if that's a lie, but that's a bit of a fudged truth. I submitted an offer on 5/16. Some time on 5/17 they accepted my offer and I paid. According to eBay's logs, the description changed on 5/17. So unless they changed the Used to AS-IS before I made the offer, and my screenshot is bad eBay data, they changed the description after I sent an offer but before they accepted it and I paid. All around, that shouldn't happen. That's a failure on eBay's part. I mean, I can contrive a scenario where what I got was AS-IS, but from all that I've seen so far, the digital paper trail seems to point to them monkeying with the description after I submitted an offer, which I am obliged to honor. But their change affectielvely chAnged the terms of the sale and through eBay law, when they accepted my offer, there was no proper backing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Bogomil | 815 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 As soon as I see "as-is", "please read description carefully", "for parts", "untested" I just assume it's broken trash that someone is trying to pawn off on someone. I didn't think you could change a listing after purchase so you're probably right that they changed it after you sent the offer but before they accepted. I'd try to return it and then just avoid listings like this in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamW | 713 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Andy_Bogomil said: As soon as I see "as-is", "please read description carefully", "for parts", "untested" I just assume it's broken trash that someone is trying to pawn off on someone. I didn't think you could change a listing after purchase so you're probably right that they changed it after you sent the offer but before they accepted. I'd try to return it and then just avoid listings like this in the future. This was/is a multiple items listing. It seems the rules for changing those are different than for a single item listing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyNotZoidberg | 586 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 22 hours ago, RH said: EDIT A lot has been learned since I started this. The seller still has the listing up since he had 3 units. It says AS-IS today, but searching eBay history, it was listed as Used when I submitted my purchase offer. At some point they changed the description from Used to AS-IS. From my records, it looks like they did it after I submitted an offer, but before they either accepted the offer or I finished the purchase. If you go by the purchase date, I bought it after the description changed. However, since they changed the description after I submitted my offer, for one, I didn't know it changed and second, there was no proper way to bail on the sale since they didn't counter my offer and they just accepted it. There are many things a seller cannot change once offers/bids are in. Including but not limited to, price and pictures. I know, I tried doing it just yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamW | 713 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, WhyNotZoidberg said: There are many things a seller cannot change once offers/bids are in. Including but not limited to, price and pictures. I know, I tried doing it just yesterday. On a multiple item listing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyNotZoidberg | 586 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, AdamW said: On a multiple item listing? ah. I couldn't answer for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH | 4,987 Posted May 25, 2021 Author Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 minute ago, WhyNotZoidberg said: ah. I couldn't answer for that one. Ok, I am willing to allow myself to look like an idiot for honesty sake. The seller didn't, seemingly, change the description between the period of when I submitted an offer and when I paid for it. He did make a change in that period, but it was for the shipping details. I remembered seeing a description change in the history (I'm sure you guys could see it if you wanted to look) and it says he changed the "Description" in March. I was mis-remembering that I saw a description change and I saw the date was the 17th. Since I've been out of my office and in doctor's offices, all of my posts were from what I recalled seeing yesterday, so the pieces were not 100% accurate. So... there is a good chance I'm wrong. However, the seller is really pushing that eBay customer service verified that the listing was marked AS-IS when I bought it. Again, if I missed that, that's my problem. However, what gets me is that when I started looking through this, I was able to see a historical snapshot of the sale. What I am seeing does not mark this as AS-IS. It is used. The original description is vague enough that I could see it being a fine "AS-IS" description, but it could also be a description used in a "Used" listing. I no longer want to call this guy a liar, especially if eBay is telling him that the original listing was marked as AS-IS. However, from the eBay channels I have available to me, it doesn't look like that. Again, I want to be honest and I hate to admit this. I started this thread because I noticed the current listing is AS-IS. However, it was odd to me because I did not want to get a potentially Extron unit. The type of unit I want doesn't show up often and this is the exact experience I would have wanted to have avoided from the beginning. If I am in the wrong, partially blame eBay for letting the state of their history imply that this was a "Used" sale. I mean, look at the screenshot above. AS-IS is no where on that listing. Who's right? The seller or me? Ebay honestly isn't making this clear. And to make matters worse, we all know that eBay's platform is crap. I'm not saying I believe this to be the case, but it wouldn't surprise me if the seller did, in fact, properly change the listing before I made an offer but I was seeing a cached version of the sale. I shopped around for a couple of weeks and had this one bookmarked. I might have been seeing a cached listing as of the time of my bookmark. That doesn't make sense, but I have seen other odd stupidities with eBay's platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyNotZoidberg | 586 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, RH said: crap Oh definitely. It's a monstruous Frankenstein of a platform where parts of it are accessible through google search results but not from the platform itself. And I recently changed my language settings from french to english and it considers the items listed in french as being from a different platform, like ebay.com VS. ebay.ca. Some buyers purchase multiple items and the app won't let me invoice them toghether. This is what I can witness as a non-developper so I can't begin to imagine all the underlying fuckery happening there. But to get back to your point: ebay has definitions of what their Condition status mean. I swear I had to refund the mintiest ever New 3DS Pokemon 20th Anniversary Edition fully complete because I listed it "open box" and apparently this is supposed to mean tecnically new, but unsealed or whatever, and what I had was used, but in extremly good condition. So if the seller did not list it as "broken / for parts", you are probably in the right if you ask for a return. Even if they write as is in the description. Words to qualify condition are subjective, so "as is" could mean untested, sure, but also it could simply imply that the item in the picture is exactly how you will receive it, this does not refer to its functionality. Edited May 25, 2021 by WhyNotZoidberg struggling with english Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelardo | 154 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 Yo were sold the item listed as Used, so it should've been fully functional per eBay's item condition guidelines: https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/item-conditions-category?id=4765#section4 Used: The item was previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but it is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that was used. See the seller's listing for full details and a description of any imperfections. For parts or not working: The item does not function as intended and is not fully operational. This includes items that are defective in ways that render them difficult to use, items that require service or repair, or items missing essential components. See the seller's listing for full details. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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