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[Brickman | 3,990]

I think with any of these review bombed scores you need to work out a middle point and that will give you a general score.

I haven’t played TLoU 2 but there is no way 1 was a 95 and I couldn’t see 2 really been a 3.5 so if we raise the low and lower the high it’s probably around a 7-8. Sounds about where I’d rank TLoU 1.

Captain Marvel was garbage though. Don’t know what it scored but it definitely didn’t deserve higher than a 6. Even for a mindless action flick.

If we look at Peter Pan, both scores are very low. There’s no way this is just review bombing. A 13% audience and a 62% critic score tells me this is a real stinker, probably around the 4/10 mark. I don’t even go that low for horror movies!

These rehashed movies are so uninspired and boring. But it’s all about the diversity $$$ these days so they’ll keep making them thinking they’re doing a great job 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,089]

15 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

What?  What critics are you talking about?  I'm saying both are examples of user review bombs.   People absolutely can drive an RT meter down to 13% if the movie itself is mediocre to begin with.  Look at what they managed to do with The Last of Us Part II.

edit: Wait, you're saying the critic scores are the manipulated number here?  Yeah, no.  The user score was politically motivated.  That shit is well documented.

No, I'm saying comparing critic reviews to the public doesn't really work as an example to support your argument because they almost always differ, sometimes greatly, across the board.  If a movie was generally getting in the 60's everywhere, and then one or two major sites (like Rotten Tomatoes) had a number like 13% that was a total anomaly outside of the rest of the universe, then that would be an excellent example of "review bombing."  But from what I've seen, the new Peter Pan and The Last of Us II have both been panned by pretty much everybody (real unpaid people) across the board.

I learned to distrust critics a looooong time ago when it comes to the quality of pretty much everything, and your example above supports that distrust 100%.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I learned to distrust critics a looooong time ago when it comes to the quality of pretty much everything, and your example above supports that distrust 100%.

I've learned that arguing on the internet has never changed anyone's mind on anything ever, as this example clearly exhibits 100% 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,089]

Just now, Reed Rothchild said:

I've learned that arguing on the internet has never changed anyone's mind on anything ever, as this example clearly exhibits 100% 

I can agree to that

(Although, I must say that I am really getting sick of any critical analysis of anything at all with "woke" elements being automatically labelled as redneck ultra right wing subterfuge.  Are we really at a point in our society where we can't even be critical about any media that contains diversity?  Like, really?!?  If a movie sucks, it sucks, regardless of it's level of wokeness; likewise for the great movies being great regardless of their cast or "message."  Your assumption that if Peter Pan has bad reviews then, "gosh darn it, it must be those damn right wing fundamentalists skewing the numbers" is just the kind of closed-minded judgement that you're trying so hard to argue belongs to the other side...)

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

28 minutes ago, Brickman said:

If we look at Peter Pan, both scores are very low. There’s no way this is just review bombing. A 13% audience and a 62% critic score tells me this is a real stinker, probably around the 4/10 mark. I don’t even go that low for horror movies

Dude, audiences are notoriously easy to please.  See Mario's score as Exhibit A.  See literally any movie's Cinemascore for Exhibit B.

It's a review bomb.  Which is hilarious because by all appearances it's a mediocre movie that would have come and gone with nary a trace if not for the small amount of publicity this will give it.

[avatar! | 1,818]

27 minutes ago, Brickman said:

These rehashed movies are so uninspired and boring. But it’s all about the diversity $$$ these days so they’ll keep making them thinking they’re doing a great job 

That's it right there! I fully agree with this assessment, which frankly, I think is basically what the majority of people who dislike the newer Disney live-action films complain about. I think @Reed Rothchild is correct that there will always be people trying to criticize a movie, book, game, whatever for rather silly reasons. However, as someone that has watched a number of the Disney live-action remakes (have not yet seen Peter & Wendy) - well, I did not like any of them. I thought they were all just a money-grab for Disney with no heart, and wow, they were boring.

[avatar! | 1,818]

38 minutes ago, Brickman said:

I haven’t played TLoU 2 but there is no way 1 was a 95 and I couldn’t see 2 really been a 3.5 so if we raise the low and lower the high it’s probably around a 7-8. Sounds about where I’d rank TLoU 1.

I placed TLoU 1 in my list of highly acclaimed games that I feel is very overrated.

Frankly, it was just not particularly fun. I thought the plot was excellent, but boy the gameplay was dull and uninspired. Somewhere between a 6-7 is how I would rank that game. Of course, that's just my opinion and clearly numerous people thought it was a masterpiece - although I completely fail to see how.

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

I mean, I completely agree with that assessment of the recent trend of Disney remakes.  Like I said, I watched the Aladdin remake, and it was so exceedingly pointless it was ridiculous.  A complete note-for-note copy.  This is probably yet another boring take that no one asked for.

But it was review bombed, because people are idiots.  I had never heard of this movie, but a quick 10 minute google search revealed that fact quickly enough.  Same thing that happened with Strange World and Lightyear last year.  Same thing that will happen to Little Mermaid and god knows what else soon enough.

And you don't have to take that shit personally @Dr. Morbis.  I'm sure the other side will review bomb whatever the next JK Rowling book is or whatever.  Both sides are fucking morons with that shit

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

...and @Brickman you're fucking high . Captain Marvel was good.  Your boy Ben Mendelsohn done good. 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

17 minutes ago, avatar! said:

I placed TLoU 1 in my list of highly acclaimed games that I feel is very overrated.

Frankly, it was just not particularly fun. I thought the plot was excellent, but boy the gameplay was dull and uninspired. Somewhere between a 6-7 is how I would rank that game. Of course, that's just my opinion and clearly numerous people thought it was a masterpiece - although I completely fail to see how.

 

Here is the distribution of scores the users of VGS gave TLOU1.  Seems I gave it a 7.  Seems reasonable overall.  Maybe a fun game, that people think has flaws.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

Now, I haven't done a poll for TLOU2 yet, but lets assume it would have similar-ish results.  I'd say we're reasonable people, with relatively reasonable opinions that would fit in with gamers as a whole.  Now, let's look at the distribution of user scores for The Last of Us Part 2 on Metacritic....

 

That is one interesting-as-fuck curve, wouldn't you say?  And keep in mind this is with a score that is 2 points higher than when the review bombs were at their peak.  It was much worse at one point.

That look organic to you?

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

27 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Both sides are fucking morons with that shit

^This.

If I did not believe that you guys would fall apart without me being here, I'd be looking for a way to return to Japan. Because the stuff I have seen there makes me neutral on most topics. But also not want to see half of the fan produced stuff become canon in any way.

But yeah, I cannot stand how extreme both sides are being. So much that the only sane thing I can watch is Bluey. And Detective Conan, Naruto Shippuden, and a slew of Japanese TV shows I often record.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,089]

42 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Now, I haven't done a poll for TLOU2 yet, but lets assume it would have similar-ish results.  I'd say we're reasonable people, with relatively reasonable opinions that would fit in with gamers as a whole.  Now, let's look at the distribution of user scores for The Last of Us Part 2 on Metacritic....

 

That is one interesting-as-fuck curve, wouldn't you say?  And keep in mind this is with a score that is 2 points higher than when the review bombs were at their peak.  It was much worse at one point.

That look organic to you?

Once again, instead of comparing VGS of TLOFU1 to metacritic for TLOFU2, why not do an apples to apples comparison and show what metacritic's distribution looks like for the first game as well so we can see a direct comparison?  That would go a lot further in proving your argument.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trying to use particular evidence to try and emphasize your point to the exclusion of other less savory results - but yes, the numbers on metacritic for the sequel are pretty clear: people either love it or hate it.

Anyway, it looks like there is a great divide in our society right now, and yeah, there are going to be extremists on both sides, with apparently not so much in the middle.  C'est la vie...

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Once again, instead of comparing VGS of TLOFU1 to metacritic for TLOFU2, why not do an apples to apples comparison and show what metacritic's distribution looks like for the first game as well so we can see a direct comparison?  That would go a lot further in proving your argument.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trying to use particular evidence to try and emphasize your point to the exclusion of other less savory results - but yes, the numbers on metacritic for the sequel are pretty clear: people either love it or hate it.

Anyway, it looks like there is a great divide in our society right now, and yeah, there are going to be extremists on both sides, with apparently not so much in the middle.  C'est la vie...

I'm not dancing around anything, I simply assumed you knew, and were playing devil's advocate.  I didn't just pull this shit out of my ass on a whim.  But since it seems all of this is new to you...

 

Now, let's all take a wild guess as to which of these two games has an LGBTQ element to it's storyline, and caused a furor on the 4chans and Neogafs of the world...

[RH | 4,908]

Starting back in 2020, I think it was, I started to shotgun Stargate SG-1.  I enjoyed it until about the middle of the last season.  I finished it early this year, IIRC.  Anyway, last week I had the SG-itch, and knowing there's a lot more media out there for the Stargateverse, I've started watching Atlantis.  I finished the first season just yesterday.  I'm enjoying it.  It's  possible I could like it better than SG-1.

Although the general premise of their being a galactic group of baddies, I appreciate the subtle difference in that the Wraith actually feed off of humans, and the dynamic that brings to the Neoatlantians.  I also appreciate the layer of always having to watch out for the Genii and I'm amused at how a world that's roughly as advanced as our world in the 1930s/1940s keeps being a thorn in everyone's side.  It's a nice touch.

So I recommend it, especially if you watched and enjoyed SG1 but never checked this out.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,089]

13 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I'm not dancing around anything, I simply assumed you knew, and were playing devil's advocate.  I didn't just pull this shit out of my ass on a whim.  But since it seems all of this is new to you...

 

Now, let's all take a wild guess as to which of these two games has an LGBTQ element to it's storyline, and caused a furor on the 4chans and Neogafs of the world...

I'm not a modern gamer, and know nothing about either of the Last of Us games; I was just responding to a graph you showed to emphasize review-bombing, but all I saw was that a lot of people liked the sequel and a lot of people hated it, with not very many people left in the middle.  Are you saying that the positive reviews were mostly due to people enjoying the game, while the negative reviews were due mostly to people review-bombing rather than because those people didn't enjoy the game?  Is the game that amazingly good that it just defies logic why anyone would not enjoy the game?  If people are hating on the game due to LGBTQ issues, as you are claiming, wouldn't it better serve your argument to show how the majority of the negative reviews are stating such?  I just don't see how posting a graph with a long green bar and a long red bar automatically means people are review-bombing.

And speaking of those negative reviews, if that many people legitimately have problems with the LGBTQ elements, then how is that review-bombing?  That would literally be people voicing their opinions about something they dislike; why are you labeling it as "review-bombing" if it's actually the case that 68,343 different people dislike the game due to LGBTQ issues?  That's not review-bombing, that's people expressing their opinions about something they dislike.  Would you rather see movie review sites adopt the youtube method where you can "like" with a thumbs up but cannot dislike with a thumbs down?  I don't know man, in the final analysis it seems like you're upset that everyone in America doesn't share your liberal values...

Edited May 13, 2023 by Dr. Morbis

[Tulpa | 3,510]

35 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Are you saying that the positive reviews were mostly due to people enjoying the game, while the negative reviews were due mostly to people review-bombing rather than because those people didn't enjoy the game? 

It's been documented that most of the really negative reviews (2/10, 1/10, 0/10) came in within the first hour or two of the game's release, and by the thousands. This is a game that takes many hours to complete. Plus, most of their comments came from stuff you'd glean from the trailers and press release. Not really a fair shake.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Tulpa

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

2 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

It's been documented that most of the really negative reviews (2/10, 1/10, 0/10) came in within the first hour or two of the game's release, and by the thousands. This is a game that takes many hours to complete. Plus, most of their comments came from stuff you'd glean from the trailers and press release. Not really a fair shake.

Just further proof that trying to convince anyone of anything on the internet is going to have the opposite effect 

 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,089]

4 hours ago, Tulpa said:

It's been documented that most of the really negative reviews (2/10, 1/10, 0/10) came in within the first hour or two of the game's release, and by the thousands. This is a game that takes many hours to complete. Plus, most of their comments came from stuff you'd glean from the trailers and press release. Not really a fair shake.

Fair enough.  It makes me wonder if there were similarly positive reviews right off the bat in "support" of the game that appeared before the game could have possibly been completed; but either way, whatever side you're on with just about any issue, you've got to remember that half the population is swinging the other way, so RR making comments like "these right wing corners of the internet are really tiring," does not exactly breed a forum of cooperation and acceptance.  Don't you think the other half of the population is tired of all those left wing corners of the internet too?  Just saying...

Edited May 13, 2023 by Dr. Morbis

[avatar! | 1,818]

18 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I'm not dancing around anything, I simply assumed you knew, and were playing devil's advocate.  I didn't just pull this shit out of my ass on a whim.  But since it seems all of this is new to you...

 

Now, let's all take a wild guess as to which of these two games has an LGBTQ element to it's storyline, and caused a furor on the 4chans and Neogafs of the world...

I only played Part 1, which as I said was mediocre gameplay that ruined an otherwise intriguing story. I really don't know why Part 2 got such negative reviews. IGN said the following -

An Infected Start: A Look Into the ‘Last Of Us Part 2’ Hate and Backlash

https://sea.ign.com/the-last-of-us-2/165807/feature/an-infected-start-a-look-into-the-last-of-us-part-2-hate-and-backlash

It was all over social media and beyond: gamers either called it a “waste of time” or gave it zero out-of-ten reviews. A South Korean streamer even cut up his game disc live on stream! The game hadn’t even been out for a day and yet, there were all these extreme reactions coming from so many people.

So, here are possibly the main problems that caused this highly anticipated sequel to become so divisive upon its release.

The Unfortunate Leaks

The initial leak first happened on April 26, 2020, when a user effectively published some gameplay footage and very important plot points on a public forum. Naughty Dog was quick to react, releasing a statement the next day on the official release date of the game, but it was too late. The damage had been done.

The Joel Thing

...players also felt “cheated” because Joel appeared in a lot of promotional material (something Naughty Dog did on purpose). They were promised more Joel and were left deeply unsatisfied and hurt by the actual outcome. To them, without Joel, there was no Last Of Us.

The Abby Issue

Then, how do you expect to humanize someone who killed probably one of the most beloved characters in modern triple-A video games? There was no saving Abby’s character the moment she put an end to Joel.

Though she was made to be empathized with in the second half as the player character, it was too late. What she had done made her the villain no matter her reasoning and people couldn’t put down their anger-coloured glasses.

A Strange Aftermath

In the end, there’s a difference between fair criticism and unnecessary hate. Sending harsh remarks and making fun of the actors and developers did nothing but cause hurt and serious emotional damage to strangers who were just doing their job.

Wouldn’t it be better if some people chilled out a little before they spoke?

Again, I have no stake in Part II, but from what I heard, the review bombing sounds like by in large it is due to Joel quickly getting written off. The whole situation, the sequel to a truly beloved game causing such a division among players is quite intriguing, and a bit sad at the same time. As IGN noted, people definitely need to chill and not take their anger out on the actors and developers!

Edited May 13, 2023 by avatar!

[Brickman | 3,990]

17 minutes ago, avatar! said:

I only played Part 1, which as I said was mediocre gameplay that ruined an otherwise intriguing story. I really don't know why Part 2 got such negative reviews. IGN said the following -

An Infected Start: A Look Into the ‘Last Of Us Part 2’ Hate and Backlash

https://sea.ign.com/the-last-of-us-2/165807/feature/an-infected-start-a-look-into-the-last-of-us-part-2-hate-and-backlash

It was all over social media and beyond: gamers either called it a “waste of time” or gave it zero out-of-ten reviews. A South Korean streamer even cut up his game disc live on stream! The game hadn’t even been out for a day and yet, there were all these extreme reactions coming from so many people.

So, here are possibly the main problems that caused this highly anticipated sequel to become so divisive upon its release.

The Unfortunate Leaks

The initial leak first happened on April 26, 2020, when a user effectively published some gameplay footage and very important plot points on a public forum. Naughty Dog was quick to react, releasing a statement the next day on the official release date of the game, but it was too late. The damage had been done.

The Joel Thing

...players also felt “cheated” because Joel appeared in a lot of promotional material (something Naughty Dog did on purpose). They were promised more Joel and were left deeply unsatisfied and hurt by the actual outcome. To them, without Joel, there was no Last Of Us.

The Abby Issue

Then, how do you expect to humanize someone who killed probably one of the most beloved characters in modern triple-A video games? There was no saving Abby’s character the moment she put an end to Joel.

Though she was made to be empathized with in the second half as the player character, it was too late. What she had done made her the villain no matter her reasoning and people couldn’t put down their anger-coloured glasses.

A Strange Aftermath

In the end, there’s a difference between fair criticism and unnecessary hate. Sending harsh remarks and making fun of the actors and developers did nothing but cause hurt and serious emotional damage to strangers who were just doing their job.

Wouldn’t it be better if some people chilled out a little before they spoke?

Again, I have no stake in Part II, but from what I heard, the review bombing sounds like by and large it is due to Joel quickly getting written off. The whole situation, the sequel to a truly beloved game causing such a division among players is quite intriguing, and a bit sad at the same time. As IGN noted, people definitely need to chill and not take their anger out on the actors and developers!

Ok makes a lot of sense now, I haven’t played it either.

Studio kills off main character and then is confused why everyone is upset and is review bombing it  For their next game they should kill off Nathan Drake. What a dumpster fire.

Definitely agree that people shouldn’t have taken anger out on the actors/staff though. 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

I managed to watch this.

Thanks to you guys saying all of that stuff.

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Fair enough.  It makes me wonder if there were similarly positive reviews right off the bat in "support" of the game that appeared before the game could have possibly been completed; but either way, whatever side you're on with just about any issue, you've got to remember that half the population is swinging the other way, so RR making comments like "these right wing corners of the internet are really tiring," does not exactly breed a forum of cooperation and acceptance.  Don't you think the other half of the population is tired of all those left wing corners of the internet too?  Just saying...

Yes.  Like I said, there was some sort of "leftwing" movement to boycott the Hogwarts game.  That was equally dumb, and failed equally hard.  The Last of Us Part II and Hogwarts both sold a bazillion copies.  I'd be equally harsh on lefties if they tried to review bomb the Mario movie for having too many white characters in it.

I mean if people want to condone this shit that's their prerogative.  Waste of fucking energy, nerd raging on the internet.  I just noticed Jedi Survivor was being review bombed at the moment.  Clearly by people who have real shit to worry about in their lives.

And when (if) the next George RR Martin book comes out, it may break the internet.  I look forward to that.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,544]

50 minutes ago, Brickman said:

Ok makes a lot of sense now, I haven’t played it either.

Studio kills off main character and then is confused why everyone is upset and is review bombing it  For their next game they should kill off Nathan Drake. What a dumpster fire.

Definitely agree that people shouldn’t have taken anger out on the actors/staff though. 

Good thing those snowflakes weren't around when Optimus Prime, Obiwan Kenobi, Aerith, and every death in pop culture happened over the last 50 years.

Oh shit, can you imagine how Six Feet Under would be received nowadays?  The fucking nerve of those showrunners! 

[avatar! | 1,818]

20 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Good thing those snowflakes weren't around when Optimus Prime, Obiwan Kenobi, Aerith, and every death in pop culture happened over the last 50 years.