A different approach to ranking gaming consoles

[MegaMan52 | 2,445]

12 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Surely, no one is in support of the gray and purple SNES design? 

I never really minded the way the SNES looks, but still think the Super Famicom's design is superior.

[GPX | 1,369]

I don’t think it’s possible to be completely objective with rating consoles from different era. Everything is based on subjectivity no matter how you go about constructing on an objective argument. The core arguments here is based on the word “fun”, and this cannot be measured in metrics.

Regarding on ranking consoles by the ratio of “good to bad games”, this is simply not possible unless you literally spend all your time playing games until completion for the consoles entire library. Even if you do that, you’d likely be stuck with 1 or 2 consoles unless you’re a gaming whiz, maybe then 3 to 4 consoles. Then once that is all said and done, you’re still going back to subjective ratings of your personal experience with games and how “fun” you thought your experiences were.

Personally, if being more objective is the aim, I’d rate the consoles by what it can do (ie. highlighted by the best games for x console) rather than by the number of crappy games derived from developers not knowing how to utilize the console’s potential.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

11 hours ago, Sumez said:

If you can truly find 400 good games on Famicom...

I did a quick look tonight and started drafting out a list of what would be considered, imo, good NES / Famicom games. I also have on the same spreadsheet a second column for games that I personally find to good / likeable, though I feel they are of a lesser quality.

Just from a quick glance tonight, the results are at about 184 good games, and another 81 games that I think are fairly good, giving us a total of 255 games. This is just from one quick glance of the NES-side of things, and I need to go back later to check what some of the games actually are, I mean I generally play Famicom and am not 100% sure of their USA titles.

But that puts the NES at having just under 40% as quality titles, under a quick glance, and I've completely ignored the arcade / board game / sports / KOEI strategy genres as I'm not sure how to fairly rank them, thus this percentage is likely to be higher than my list.

Later I'll move into the Famicom exclusives, but yeah, with the rate we are going, there will easily be at least 500 or so top tier games for that machine, or about 1 good game for every two.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

If you're serious and not just trolling the disagreement here, depending how you care to price the stuff to relieve your burden I see a few I used to own before my sad losses ages ago I'd grab again.  I just don't now because ebay can suck it and going through Japan direct with their mail being dickheads removes any benefit when it costs me like $40 to ship a small box under a pound or two tops.

Nah, I'm keeping these, I was trolling a bit with that post. I generally don't sell unless they're duplicates.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,526]

13 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Nah, I'm keeping these, I was trolling a bit with that post. I generally don't sell unless they're duplicates.

Looks like you trolled yourself 

fc: "Here's a bunch of games for sale that no one actually wants, proving my point that SNES Sux"

*Posts CIB copies of $100+ titles like Sonic Wings and Super Aleste*

Everyone: "Here's my money!"

fc: "...Actually, I want to keep them"

[fcgamer | 4,723]

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

it's starting to sound like you're part of the salty 16bit console wars at their peak and you chose the black/blue army over the gray and purple... Go Sega right?!

You keep making this claim, but I'm definitely not a Sega fanboy by any means; I had got a NES growing up in 1989, then my brother and I got a SNES when it first came out. I only played Sega twice at that point, Sonic 2 at a cousin's house, dying at the chemical plant on the second stage by drowning at the rotating platforms. Wouldn't play Sega again until about 1998 or 1999 when I grabbed one from Funcoland for $20. For the record, got an N64 after it came out, also got a Gameboy b/w maybe around 1997 or 1998.

Games we had as a child for SNES were all quality, SMW, Super Ghouls n Ghosts, Castlevania IV, TMNT IV, Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong Country, etc. There were definitely some good games in the bunch, but my brother and I both strongly preferred the NES, and still do to this day.

With the Sega Genesis actually it had faired even worse than the SNES after I got it, as I felt the SNES versions (Castlevania, Ghouls n Ghosts, etc) to be much better than the Genesis ones.

But it's been a situation in later, more recent years where people rant and rave about how amazing a SNES game is, I look it up, think "meh", and have no desire to track it down and play it.

As I've mentioned earlier, the audio and enhanced graphics just do  nothing for me, it's not my cup of tea at all. Nothing more to add.

 

 

 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

5 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Looks like you trolled yourself 

fc: "Here's a bunch of games for sale that no one actually wants, proving my point that SNES Sux"

*Posts CIB copies of $100+ titles like Sonic Wings and Super Aleste*

Everyone: "Here's my money!"

fc: "...Actually, I want to keep them"

Oh I know the value on some of those games, believe me. I made a post showcasing them a year or two back .

Similarly though, I did have a massive pile of SFC games that almost went to the garbage, I just couldn't move them at all.

If anyone wants SFC smash tv or rushing beat though, I got an extra CIB that's actually for sale.

[cj_robot | 542]

38 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

...there will easily be at least 500 or so top tier games for that machine, or about 1 good game for every two.

But do you understand that you are talking about rating consoles more objectively, yet your criteria is explicitly subjective. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who agrees there are as many "good" NES games as you claim. That doesn't mean you're wrong. You can like whatever you want to like. But there's nothing objective about your assessment. It's literally, by your own admission, simply your personal preference.

I could easily say something like: "SNES actually has 750+ exceptional games, only 2 mediocre games (Madden NFL '97 and Chester Cheetah: Wild Wild Quest) and just 1 horribly awful game (Earthbound). Therefore, SNES has a library that is 99% exceptional games and clearly the greatest console of all time. That's not even counting the Super Famicom library, which is more like 99.99999% awesome. If you don't agree it's because you clearly didn't grow up with the SNES and can't make the adjustment."

Now that I think about it, that's actually a pretty valid statement. I'm gonna stand by it.

[spacepup | 2,404]

There's nothing wrong with anyone personally liking NES more than SNES, or not liking SNES all that much.  Ok sure, fine, that is your prerogative.

It's the "1" vote that is just hard to actually appreciate from any gamer, especially one who liked NES at all.

"1/10 Trash. No redeeming features."

It's fine if that is your opinion - but you can't be that surprised if virtually everyone else will disagree or think it is an extreme exaggeration. 

Then again, the polls are just for fun, and I'm certainly not going to get riled up about whatever anyone votes for.  Who knows who is just trolling and who is being serious anyway.

[Khromak | 768]

Going back to the discussion about how many of the NES games are exceptional, I took the time to input the ratings from Pat Contri's (sorry for those who hate him) book into a spreadsheet, licensed only, to check the #s of games. Now, putting aside whether or not you or I agree with his and the other writers' opinions of the games and just using them as a starting place, here are the results.

184 games were rated 4.0 or higher (27.42%), 299 games were rated 3.5 or higher (44.56%), so depending where you draw the line on what is a "good" or "top tier" game, there is no way you're getting 50%. If you look at games which are 3.0 or better you can get 50%, but that is REALLY digging deep, since it includes such gems as Dungeon Magic, Goal!, Ikari Warriors 2, Mario is Missing, and Mickey's Adventures in Numberland to your list of reasons the NES is great.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,526]

1 minute ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I present to you the worst console/handheld of all time.  The science doesn't lie:

What's that?  300-400 good or great titles?  That's irrelevant.

 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

9 hours ago, Sumez said:

Surely, no one is in support of the gray and purple SNES design? 

I've always felt that the SFC/PAL SNES design was infinitely more aesthetically appealing than the boxy US SNES... gotta be one of the ugliest consoles to ever grace these shores...

[TDIRunner | 2,737]

I personally never felt the US SNES was ugly until I discovered the look of the European and Japanese versions, and that didn't happen until was an adult.  I guess ignorance was bliss, but regardless, I still thought it looked good.  

[Brickman | 3,984]

I’d definitely give the US SNES console a 1/10 in the looks department. That has to be one of the ugliest consoles I’ve ever seen.

There is no way I can give any console based on its game library a 1/10 though, unless I was trolling. 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

7 hours ago, Khromak said:

Going back to the discussion about how many of the NES games are exceptional, I took the time to input the ratings from Pat Contri's (sorry for those who hate him) book into a spreadsheet, licensed only, to check the #s of games. Now, putting aside whether or not you or I agree with his and the other writers' opinions of the games and just using them as a starting place, here are the results.

184 games were rated 4.0 or higher (27.42%), 299 games were rated 3.5 or higher (44.56%), so depending where you draw the line on what is a "good" or "top tier" game, there is no way you're getting 50%. If you look at games which are 3.0 or better you can get 50%, but that is REALLY digging deep, since it includes such gems as Dungeon Magic, Goal!, Ikari Warriors 2, Mario is Missing, and Mickey's Adventures in Numberland to your list of reasons the NES is great.

Wouldn't really trust his opinions, and besides that, you're excluding unlicensed as well as a large portion of exclusives from the Famicom side.

I'll post my lists when I'm finished, but it'll be easily 50% or more

[Khromak | 768]

5 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Wouldn't really trust his opinions, and besides that, you're excluding unlicensed as well as a large portion of exclusives from the Famicom side.

I'll post my lists when I'm finished, but it'll be easily 50% or more

Oh yeah those unlicensed gems. Honestly I felt like I was giving a pass by skipping unlicensed because they were almost all 1* games, which I agree with. Unlicensed games were, on average, garbage.

You must have really low standards when it comes to "really fun" or "top tier" games if you're going to say the NES/Famicom has 50% fun factor. I've beaten ~110 games and I've got a list of maybe ~25 more that I want to beat, and there's not much else I'm particularly looking forward to playing.

Don't get me wrong, the system is my favorite and I'm obsessed with a lot of the games, but I think in terms of overall volume/ratio of good games, you're off your rocker.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

18 minutes ago, Khromak said:

Oh yeah those unlicensed gems. Honestly I felt like I was giving a pass by skipping unlicensed because they were almost all 1* games, which I agree with. Unlicensed games were, on average, garbage.

You must have really low standards when it comes to "really fun" or "top tier" games if you're going to say the NES/Famicom has 50% fun factor. I've beaten ~110 games and I've got a list of maybe ~25 more that I want to beat, and there's not much else I'm particularly looking forward to playing.

Don't get me wrong, the system is my favorite and I'm obsessed with a lot of the games, but I think in terms of overall volume/ratio of good games, you're off your rocker.

How much have you actually sat down and played, though? I'm not talking about just throwing it in, giving it a quick go, saying "This sucks" and moving on? I'm constantly finding games on the machine that I want to give a proper go, which seem fun.

Your comment on the unlicensed games just shows your ignorance on the matter too, no offence. That seal of quality literally meant nothing, as can be seen from Time Diver, a fun game, ultimately being released as unlicensed only, and Videomation, receiving a license in the states yet being unlicensed in Japan.

[Khromak | 768]

https://images.app.goo.gl/gEd4LrKtcS1nLm7i9

[fcgamer | 4,723]

2 minutes ago, Khromak said:

https://images.app.goo.gl/gEd4LrKtcS1nLm7i9

Yeah, I'd reckon you are doing that.

I got the whole set give some recommendations of bad games, I'll pop them in after work and see.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,526]

22 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

How much have you actually sat down and played, though? I'm not talking about just throwing it in, giving it a quick go, saying "This sucks" and moving on?

Irony 

[Khromak | 768]

On a lark I put together the stats for unlicensed games (as rated in the book). There were 90 games reviewed for an average score of 2.11 compared to licensed with a 3.03. There were 4 games total rated a 4.0 or higher, and only a single game rated a 5, which was probably generous tbh.

I will freely admit that I haven't played a lot of unlicensed games, not because I had a particular bias against them, mostly just because I have a gigantic backlog of licensed games to play which I've already collected and want to get through. Plus I've been playing games for the NES completions thread and only have so much free time.

13 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Yeah, I'd reckon you are doing that.

I got the whole set give some recommendations of bad games, I'll pop them in after work and see.

OK I'll keep it simple, here's a list of games with low ratings, you tell me how many of them you, to quote yourself, "really really enjoy" since that's your standard for the list you want to put together. To be clear, we're not trying to meet the bar of "did it have an interesting concept" or "is it playable" or "I could see what they're going for", we're looking for games that are "really, really enjoyable" or "top tier."

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Heroes of the Lance

Blues Brothers, The

Ghostbusters

Roger Clemens' MVP Baseball

Super Pitfall

Ultima: Warriors of Destiny

Where's Waldo?

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Hillsfar

Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle and Friends, The

Alien3

Back to the Future II & III

Classic Concentration

Color a Dinosaur

Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde

Fisher Price: Perfect Fit

George Foreman's KO Boxing

Great Waldo Search, The

Home Alone 2: Lost in New York

Hydlide

Last Ninja, The

Last Starfighter, The

Magic Johnson's Fast Break

Marvel's X-Men

NFL Football

Rambo

RoboCop 2

Rocket Ranger

Swamp Thing

Wayne Gretzky Hockey

Wayne's World

Bonus, unlicensed:

6-in-1, Action 52, Baby Boomer, Bible Adventures, Blackjack, Castle of Deceit, Challenge of the Dragon, Chiller, Death Race, Deathbots, F-15 City War, Hot Slots, King Neptune's Adventure, King of Kings, Linus Spacehead's Cosmic Crusade, Master Chu & the Drunkard Hu, Menace Beach, Mission Cobra, Moon Ranger, Operation Secret Storm, Pesterminator, Puzzle, Quatro Sports, Raid 2020, Robodemons, Secret Scout, Silent Assault, Solitaire, Stunt Kids, Tagin' Dragon, Ultimate League Soccer, Wally Bear & the No Gang, Little Red Hood, Jackpot.

Let me know which of these you couldn't put down, and I'll give them each an hour of dedicated playtime to see if I agree. I doubt you'll find many.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

I've explained why SNES isn't my cup of tea, it's ridiculous how butthurt everyone is getting that I gave it a 1. Let's look at the ratings for a moment:

How do you rate SNES?

• 10/10 GOAT. Greatest console of all time.
  Can't vote this, I definitely don't consider it to be my top gaming machine.
   
• 9/10 Bad@$$. One of the best.
  Again, I wouldn't consider it one of the best. 
   
• 8/10 Exceptional. Everyone should play it.
  Honestly, my console isn't even hooked up. When I do play it, it's only for Castlevania IV.
• 7/10 Superior. More than a few games you like.
• Wouldn't agree with this statement. I can count the games that I enjoyed on two hands, and even then, very few call me back to play again.
   
• 6/10 Good. You might occasionally enjoy playing it.
  I could possibly pick this, based on descriptions, but then again noy really when looking at the descriptions that follow.
   
• 5/10 Average. Smack dab in the middle.
  See 6.
   
• 4/10 Mediocre. Not something you will go out of your way to play.
  Okay, now we are talking! Mines not even hooked up, and I really have no desire to play it.
   
• 3/10 Inferior. There are better alternatives to this.
  Yup, NES/Famicom is a much better alternative.
   
• 2/10 Poor. Barely worth turning on.
  As mentioned above, I probably would turn it on only to play one game.
   
• 1/10 Trash. No redeeming features.
  Okay so maybe I was a bit harsh. Or maybe not, Ive found over the years many machines I couldn't get working, yellowed, dirty, crusty literal garbage.
   
• Haven’t played, but interested.
  Can't vote this, since I've played it. 

 

• No interest in it.

I can't vote this, as I have played the machine before, for hundreds of hours over the years.

 

So yeah, a "2" might have been a more accurate vote, though I'd still receive flack if I voted that way

[TDIRunner | 2,737]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

•  
• 1/10 Trash. No redeeming features.
   Ive found over the years many machines I couldn't get working, yellowed, dirty, crusty literal garbage.
   

Great, now I have to change my vote on every single console to a 1.      

[OptOut | 8,884]

For the record, I just want to say I voted 1 on the Playstation as a JOKE, to mock the very concept of online polls, and basically to be a huge dick.

I stand by my 1, on these grounds. 

[Gloves | 11,777]

On 5/9/2021 at 6:33 PM, Gloves said:

Let's all remember that Dave is totally entitled to being wrong.