Why you shouldn't cheat on your spouse.......

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

@arch_8ngel: He stated this. It's not correct. Whether relevant to the Japan situation or not is irrelevant.

The Japan situation is a reality, due to sexless unhappy marriages. The people might feel it to be wrong, but similarly, they can deal and accept it without going off the deep end, due to cultural reasons. Taiwan shares some similarities here.

On a morality issue, he's wrong. It's not universal, as shown in both studies I posted.He stated it was universally wrong , full stop, the studies show otherwise.

The only country on that chart you posted that doesn't view it as majority "morally unacceptable" was France -- and EVEN THEN, more people in that country view it as "morally unacceptable" than any other viewpoint.

I think that in "layman's terms" that is pretty close to saying that cheating is "universally" viewed as "morally unacceptable" -- obviously not "universal" in truly every individual, but in the sense of it being the most widely held view point in nearly all polled countries.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

We are talking about two different things. That's why you should go back and read again.

First issue: Japanese and cheating 

Second issue: Cheating is universally viewed as being morally wrong

Two separate issues, but both people were wrong

First issue -- I certainly wouldn't argue about whether the behavior is widespread, or not -- but the DATA certainly appears to clearly state that were it "widespread" behavior, it is viewed as "morally unacceptable" by the vast majority of people in Japan.

Second issue -- if you want to be literally correct in the absolute use of the word "universal" you can have that victory of pedantry, but the rest of use knew what he meant, and the data appears to support it.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

5 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

First issue -- I certainly wouldn't argue about whether the behavior is widespread, or not -- but the DATA certainly appears to clearly state that were it "widespread" behavior, it is viewed as "morally unacceptable" by the vast majority of people in Japan.

Second issue -- if you want to be literally correct in the absolute use of the word "universal" you can have that victory of pedantry, but the rest of use knew what he meant, and the data appears to support it.

If you look at the other graph I posted, there are also some places where cheating is not held in such a bad light as being unaccepted.

Furthermore, Japan apparently even has two words for what we would consider cheating. You would know that though, if you read the articles I posted. Many Japanese would not consider going to a prostitute as cheating, if we polled America, I wonder what the results would be?

The attitudes shown are very different than the attitudes people in the States would carry, and that is why Reed was wrong when he said I was 100% wrong; similarly, it's why you are also wrong, if you adhere to the same belief as him. You have not experienced it witnessed it, therefore it's out of your ability to grasp.

Kokiri was wrong on the second issue, as it's not universally viewed as wrong.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

10 hours ago, OptOut said:

No YouTube!!! 

That's it, I've decided, I don't wanna go to prison! 

If I don't get free cable and internet, I'm not going either!

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

If you look at the other graph I posted, there are also some places where cheating is not held in such a bad light as being unaccepted.

Furthermore, Japan apparently even has two words for what we would consider cheating. You would know that though, if you read the articles I posted. Many Japanese would not consider going to a prostitute as cheating, if we polled America, I wonder what the results would be?

The attitudes shown are very different than the attitudes people in the States would carry, and that is why Reed was wrong when he said I was 100% wrong; similarly, it's why you are also wrong, if you adhere to the same belief as him. You have not experienced it witnessed it, therefore it's out of your ability to grasp.

Kokiri was wrong on the second issue, as it's not universally viewed as wrong.

I did look at all of the graphs you posted.

And all of them appear to show the vast majority of respondents, from all areas, saying that "sexual infidelity" (both male and female) is "bad" or "very bad".

Maybe the two middle-blue colors aren't rendering correctly on your monitor -- but only Hadza even comes close to not having a clear majority for "bad" or "very bad", and only Shuar appears to have anyone at all say that it is "good".

But even in those two regions/locations, the majority appear to hold that it is "bad" or "very bad" to engage in sexual infidelity.

 

Which "cheating" word have these charts translated to "sexual infidelity"?

 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

2 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

I did look at all of the graphs you posted.

And all of them appear to show the vast majority of respondents, from all areas, saying that "sexual infidelity" (both male and female) is "bad" or "very bad".

Maybe the two middle-blue colors aren't rendering correctly on your monitor -- but only Hadza even comes close to not having a clear majority for "bad" or "very bad", and only Shuar appears to have anyone at all say that it is "good".

But even in those two regions/locations, the majority appear to hold that it is "bad" or "very bad" to engage in sexual infidelity.

 

Which "cheating" word have these charts translated to "sexual infidelity"?

 

1. I think it might be the colouring on your PC, as I can clearly see across several areas, where maybe 1/4 of the population or so finds it okay with a few even at good. To put it into perspective, about 25%. Compare that to the 6% of the population of the USA that identifies as LGBT. It's a decent amount of people.

No idea which word they used.

 

 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

4 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

1. I think it might be the colouring on your PC, as I can clearly see across several areas, where maybe 1/4 of the population or so finds it okay with a few even at good. To put it into perspective, about 25%. Compare that to the 6% of the population of the USA that identifies as LGBT. It's a decent amount of people.

No idea which word they used.

So you would clearly agree that the clear majority still identify it as "bad" or "Very bad", though, right?

Because that is what the data says.  

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1192259/japan-share-infidelity-by-gender/#:~:text=A survey conducted in Japan,22 percent of surveyed women.

FYI -- I suppose it is a matter of subjective opinion whether "28% of men cheating" or "22% of women cheating" at some point in the past is a "cultural norm" or not.  (for reference USA is 15-20% range of people that have, at some point, cheated)

I won't argue that it isn't RELATIVELY widespread behavior -- but that is different than saying it is widely viewed as "morally acceptable".

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[KokiriChild | 1,644]

3 hours ago, FireHazard51 said:

I'm going to agree with @fcgamer, there isn't enough information to determine if it was justified act.  Given the cultural norms it seems that infidelity can be acceptable given the situation of the relationship.  I 100% agree that you can't say the wife was justified without knowing further information.  Crazy people exist in all cultures.  There are women in ours who can't accept their partner having friends of the opposite sex.  Hell our ex Vice President was known to not be able to be in a room privately with another woman.  You think that shit is acceptable or normal?  He'll I'd say I'd want more information if this whole selling of possessions happen in America.  Also let's not forget that two wrongs don't make a right.  But yeah, I can see a situation where selling the cards would be the right thing to do but the more I think about it the more I can see how it was the wrong thing to do.

 

This is a fair point, we do not know the exact specifics of this person's situation, the points I've been debating with fcgamer about are more broad. Totally see your point on this, though!

[KokiriChild | 1,644]

5 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Okay please share with me some of those aforementioned cultures do that I can do some research on them this weekend. I'm always happy to learn more, even if I don't personally understand or agree with it.

Regarding being ethical or not, that's going to be again based on your culture and religion. You shouldn't be applying your western views on this when it relates to two Japanese people.

 

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/5-countries-with-highest-child-marriage/

It is quite common, two countries especially are Bangladesh and India. India has slowly (and I do mean slowly, lots of horrific things related to gender still happen every day) started to oust child marriages, but it is still a huge problem.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

Just now, arch_8ngel said:

So you would clearly agree that the clear majority still identify it as "bad" or "Very bad", though, right?

Because that is what the data says.  

If you look at the data presented, depending on location/country, upwards to 50% of people (such as France) don't take issue with it. You keep suggesting that it's such a small minority, yet it's almost double the percentage of African Americans in the USA, four times the percentage of LGBT. It's still a decent amount of people. Furthermore, the debate that you are fixated on is not even the main debate, it's just an aside to an erroneous statement that another member made.

The real meat and potatoes argument is about the cultural attitude of infidelity in Japan. People feel it's wrong, yet we cannot leave out the fact that it's also by and large accepted, as mentioned earlier by myself, for numerous reasons. I think most Americans would feel gun violence is wrong, yet that doesn't stop it from occuring in the states, right?

[KokiriChild | 1,644]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, as we're going in circles at this point. As @arch_8ngel pointed out, I simply do not see any correlation between the data you shared on moral opinion and the frequency of infidelity. Sure, "universal" might have been an over-broad, potentially even bad choice of word when you get down to the semantics, but I think it is still a conpletely fair generality based on the very data you provided.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,650]

11 hours ago, Mr. CIB said:

There is not a single Prison (feds or state) that you can watch YouTube or have Facebook in America. The only point of outside communication in federal prison is email. The systems are heavily monitor thru a company called Corrlinks (not sure what states use).
 

The only way an inmate has access to either is having a smuggled phone in their cell, usually with the assistance of a CO or someone posting for them after they talk on the phone.

I didn't "friend" him, so no idea how frequently he posts, so it might be somebody posting for him.   I have no idea how state prisons work, as I've never been to one and am only going by what I can see on FB.

The thing that blew my mind were the pictures themselves.   Maybe it was some sort of family visit day and one of his relatives took them?

[fcgamer | 4,754]

7 minutes ago, KokiriChild said:

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, as we're going in circles at this point. As @arch_8ngel pointed out, I simply do not see any correlation between the data you shared on moral opinion and the frequency of infidelity. Sure, "universal" might have been an over-broad, potentially even bad choice of word when you get down to the semantics, but I think it is still a conpletely fair generality based on the very data you provided.

Universally implies "all" or "everywhere" by definition, and that was something I knew was wrong, even if it's a small percentage of the overall world that feels otherwise. I'll agree to disagree on that bit, bit it's just an aside on the whole discussion.

The bit that Reed and others argued is wrong though, without a doubt, and I could pull out articles and studies all weekend suggesting this. Whether Japanese feel cheating is moral or immoral us irrelevant, rather their overall attitudes about it are indeed quite different from those of many western countries such as the states.

In fact, I read this attitude could slowly be changing -- and do you know why? Because of more biracial couples over the past recent years. But as it stands, the attitude is overall quite different from the West.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,592]

You're wasting your time @arch_8ngel, as you can clearly see.  He's only becoming more convinced with each point you make.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

2 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

You're wasting your time @arch_8ngel, as you can clearly see.  He's only becoming more convinced with each point you make.

Like I said earlier, I'll give him the crown on pedantry.  He is welcome to it

[fcgamer | 4,754]

3 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

You're wasting your time @arch_8ngel, as you can clearly see.  He's only becoming more convinced with each point you make.

Ahhh, Mr View Everything from His Own Culture's Bias has responded again. Howdy mate.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,592]

33 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Ahhh, Mr View Everything from His Own Culture's Bias has responded again. Howdy mate.

Whatever you have have to tell yourself Mr. "Well It's the Women's Fault Because She Should Have Just Accepted He Can't Control Himself Because a (super minority) of Their Country is Down With Open Marriages Even Though She Clearly Isn't"

Maybe I should move to Utah and tell my wife that our new culture allows me to do what I want.  Nevermind her values, her trust, our relationship, because if she doesn't like it, well TOUGH SHIT, it was probably her fault anyways!

Hey, assuming you have any Taiwanese female friends or acquittances, maybe you should show them this article and ask them their opinions.  Assuming they are allowed to have any of course, since they should clearly be deferring to their "culture" first.  We wouldn't want them getting out of line.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

6 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Whatever you have have to tell yourself Mr. "Well It's the Women's Fault Because She Should Have Just Accepted He Can't Control Himself Because a (super minority) of Their Country is Down With Open Marriages Even Though She Clearly Isn't"

Maybe I should move to Utah and tell my wife that our new culture allows me to do what I want.  Nevermind her values, her trust, our relationship, because if she doesn't like it, well TOUGH SHIT, it was probably her fault anyways!

Hey, assuming you have any Taiwanese female friends or acquittances, maybe you should show them this article and ask them their opinions.  Assuming they are allowed to have any of course, since they should clearly be deferring to their "culture" first.  We wouldn't want them getting out of line.

Thanks for the laugh, this response was one of the highlights of my night.

it really does show just how narrow your world view is though, I suggest you broadening it a bit, but you gotta do you!

[Reed Rothchild | 9,592]

And good luck with your narrow view of women.  I'm sure it's working out well for you and I suggest doing something about it, but you gotta do you!

[MagusSmurf | 577]

I can easily buy that different norms around marriage may lead to the dynamics around cheating being a bit different in other cultures. That makes perfect sense.

...But it's still cheating. Want to see other people without breaking up the marriage? Then maybe you should actually talk to your spouse about it and try to work something out. You know, assuming you actually give a damn what they think about all this?

Oh wait.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4078242/Sulking-husband-went-20-YEARS-without-speaking-wife.html

seems talking to your wife isn't universal, whoops! Guess maybe we can't expect people to do that either.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

4 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

And good luck with your narrow view of women.  I'm sure it's working out well for you and I suggest doing something about it, but you gotta do you!

What exactly is my narrow view of women? Is this some thinly-veiled attack or reference to the fact that I'm single at age 35? Once again, you've got no clue bro, there's other reason I'm not dating.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

3 minutes ago, MagusSmurf said:

I can easily buy that different norms around marriage may lead to the dynamics around cheating being a bit different in other cultures. That makes perfect sense.

...But it's still cheating. Want to see other people without breaking up the marriage? Then maybe you should actually talk to your spouse about it and try to work something out. You know, assuming you actually give a damn what they think about all this?

Oh wait.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4078242/Sulking-husband-went-20-YEARS-without-speaking-wife.html

seems talking to your wife isn't universal, whoops! Guess maybe we can't expect people to do that either.

Hahaha, brilliant, yeah that's definitely typical attitude here though.

It's not whether it's cheating or not , rather it's different cultures view it in different ways.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

In Mayan culture, its acceptable to cut out virgins hearts while they are alive. 
You guys just dont understand ritual sacrifice Culture. 
 

In the Amazon tribes, its culturally acceptable to eat people. You guys just dont understand cannibals.  

 

In Nazi Culture, its ok to exterminate a whole group based on their religion. 
You guys just dont understand genocide. 
 

[captmorgandrinker | 1,650]

Why can't we have nice things?

Peeps (you know who you are)- take it to PMs pretty please.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

26 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Why can't we have nice things?

Peeps (you know who you are)- take it to PMs pretty please.

Oh come on, I was really enjoying this one!