Cryptocurrency thread

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

46 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Look, it's one thing to say that you feel confident that this could happen -- but there is absolutely nothing fundamental to crypto markets that necessitates XRP "has another $1 to go up because it was already there 4 years ago".

That just isn't the way that markets of any type work.

It certainly does. Looking at the market cap will tell you what a cryptocurrency can support. Currently Bitcoin is above 1/3 of the GDP of the USA so there needs to be enough Fiat in the world to support the purchasing power to pump up the market cap for each cryptocurrency. Therefore, some of these have a hard limit and $1 is as high as some of them can logically go. However, we already know that the market cap of XRP can legitimately support another $1 price on the coin because it was at $2.8 in 2017 so that tells us it can definitely support that. Other coins are all at their historical highs so there's no supporting evidence of their ability to go higher.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

2 hours ago, arch_8ngel said:

Paypal is really easy to use for this, you just have limited options of which crypto is available, and no ability to move it off of Paypal.  (so the "not your keys not your coins" crowd would bemoan that option)

If you aren't getting into this stuff from the standpoint of an anarcho-capitalist, though, none of that really matters with the more trustworthy exchanges (Coinbase, Paypal, etc) since they are super-corporations with fiduciary duty to their shareholders and board that would get obliterated by any sort of malfeasance related to crypto handling.

 

If you don't typically file a Schedule D (for a taxable investment account) -- just be wary that swing trading this stuff can complicate your taxes in a hurry.

PayPal is definitely easy. The fees are low and you can use crypto to pay now. I saw on CNBC yesterday that they are supposed to be adding a wallet by the end of this year, so they may allow you to transfer it off the site.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

52 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

It certainly does. Looking at the market cap will tell you what a cryptocurrency can support. Currently Bitcoin is above 1/3 of the GDP of the USA so there needs to be enough Fiat in the world to support the purchasing power to pump up the market cap for each cryptocurrency. Therefore, some of these have a hard limit and $1 is as high as some of them can logically go. However, we already know that the market cap of XRP can legitimately support another $1 price on the coin because it was at $2.8 in 2017 so that tells us it can definitely support that. Other coins are all at their historical highs so there's no supporting evidence of their ability to go higher.

Bitcoin has a market cap of around $1 T. (entire global crypto market is approx. $2 T)

USA GDP is over $21 T. (though this is VERY different from money in existence, or value of other assets/investments)

That is pretty damn far from "1/3 of the GDP"...

 

 

Globally there is around $80T in "money" in existence.

 

But you've completely missed the point of what I posted...

Edited May 7, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

55 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Bitcoin has a market cap of around $1 T. (entire global crypto market is approx. $2 T)

USA GDP is over $21 T. (though this is VERY different from money in existence, or value of other assets/investments)

That is pretty damn far from "1/3 of the GDP"...

 

 

Globally there is around $80T in "money" in existence.

 

But you've completely missed the point of what I posted...

Which country was I thinking about? Canada is 1.5 trillion, I thought USA was 3 trillion. Anyway, so it's almost the GDP of all of Canada, that's more correct but doesn't really change my point.

And I didn't miss what you posted, you said previous highs can't necessarily predict future highs, that's the point I got from your post. And it's wrong, if something has never hit a certain value, there's no indication it's even possible to get to that value. However, if it has been there, it could certainly get there again.

If I still missed your point, then please explain it more clearly.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

38 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Which country was I thinking about? Canada is 1.5 trillion, I thought USA was 3 trillion. Anyway, so it's almost the GDP of all of Canada, that's more correct but doesn't really change my point.

And I didn't miss what you posted, you said previous highs can't necessarily predict future highs, that's the point I got from your post. And it's wrong, if something has never hit a certain value, there's no indication it's even possible to get to that value. However, if it has been there, it could certainly get there again.

If I still missed your point, then please explain it more clearly.

You thought USA was only twice the GDP of Canada?  That's certainly an interesting perspective. (though it is admittedly news to me that Canada's GDP is that low -- though I also didn't realize that Canada only had 37 million people vs our 330 million, so the numbers work out  )

As an amusing side-note, if the US GDP was "only" $3T -- vs Canada's $1.5T -- that would put the US GDP-per-capita on par with your typical developing country.  That'd certainly be a bad day for the world economy!

 

 

But to the point, I'm wasn't saying that a past high doesn't demonstrate a POSSIBILITY. (that is basic probabilities-and-statistics that something having happened before at least demonstrates the "possibility")

I'm saying that a past high does not provide any fundamentals that would REQUIRE or ENSURE a return to that past high.

Your language in the post I originally quoted said that it was definitely going to happen, and that is an attitude that is going to get you into trouble at some point and I'd caution you strongly against it.

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

7 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

You thought USA was only twice the GDP of Canada?  That's certainly an interesting perspective. (though it is admittedly news to me that Canada's GDP is that low -- though I also didn't realize that Canada only had 37 million people vs our 330 million, so the numbers work out  )

As an amusing side-note, if the US GDP was "only" $3T -- vs Canada's $1.5T -- that would put the US GDP-per-capita on par with your typical developing country.  That'd certainly be a bad day for the world economy!

 

 

But to the point, I'm wasn't saying that a past high doesn't demonstrate a POSSIBILITY. (that is basic probabilities-and-statistics that something having happened before at least demonstrates the "possibility")

I'm saying that a past high does not provide any fundamentals that would REQUIRE or ENSURE a return to that past high.

Your language in the post I originally quoted said that it was definitely going to happen, and that is an attitude that is going to get you into trouble at some point and I'd caution you strongly against it.

 

I never said it was definitely going up. I said, "...XRP has another $1 to go up because..." which means it simply has room for another $1 to go up. Other coins don't have any room to move at all, they could potentially be at their maximum market cap.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

3 hours ago, arch_8ngel said:

Look, it's one thing to say that you feel confident that this could happen -- but there is absolutely nothing fundamental to crypto markets that necessitates XRP "has another $1 to go up because it was already there 4 years ago".

That just isn't the way that markets of any type work.

Voice of reason has entered the chat. 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

10 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I never said it was definitely going up. I said, "...XRP has another $1 to go up because..." which means it simply has room for another $1 to go up. Other coins don't have any room to move at all, they could potentially be at their maximum market cap.

You may want to look back at the original post I quoted:

you said -- " I know for sure XRP has another $1 to go up because"

 

That sure looks like you said it is "definitely going up"  

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying there, though, if your intention was to say you simply "knew that it had headroom to go up because..."

Though even then, I'm not sure that's really an accurate analysis, given how many factors are at play.

Edited May 7, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

4 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Voice of reason has entered the chat. 

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

34 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

You may want to look back at the original post I quoted:

you said -- " I know for sure XRP has another $1 to go up because"

 

That sure looks like you said it is "definitely going up"  

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying there, though, if your intention was to say you simply "knew that it had headroom to go up because..."

Though even then, I'm not sure that's really an accurate analysis, given how many factors are at play.

You're right, it could have been taken that way even though that's not how I meant it. I understand how I confused you now. I was trying to say it definitely has another $1 worth of room to move up because it has done so before.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

5 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

You're right, it could have been taken that way even though that's not how I meant it. I understand how I confused you now. I was trying to say it definitely has another $1 worth of room to move up because it has done so before.

Unfortunate choice of words, IMO, since I wasn't being rude or antagonistic.

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[Tanooki | 4,934]

Well that got both heated and confusing in a matter of a few hours.  I was thinking maybe of finding a way to make a bit and having it grow.  I don't intend to peddle stuff as the pace I do now online next year as I'm not into the changes.  And well ever since the bank crumble years ago you just don't get a spot worth of interest in the old ways anymore.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

14 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Well that got both heated and confusing in a matter of a few hours.  I was thinking maybe of finding a way to make a bit and having it grow.  I don't intend to peddle stuff as the pace I do now online next year as I'm not into the changes.  And well ever since the bank crumble years ago you just don't get a spot worth of interest in the old ways anymore.

Crypto is inherently volatile, but there are ways to hedge your investments and still have some opportunity for growth. One option would be to open an account with Voyager. Put 1/3 your money in USDC which gets 9% interest, 1/3 into Bitcoin which gets 6.25% interest (if you own enough), and 1/3 in Ethereum which gets 5% interest (if you own enough).

I think Bitcoin is at a decent price to buy right now, although sub-55k would be better. I think ETH will drop below 3k on the next dip and that will be a better time to buy.

Or just put a hundred bucks into the cheapest altcoins. It's really hard to say where the biggest potential is since everything is up so much right now.

Edited May 8, 2021 by DoctorEncore

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

2 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

Want to be safe but still see some opportunity for growth? Open an account with Voyager. Put 1/3 your money in USDC which gets 9% interest, 1/3 into Bitcoin which gets 6.25% interest (if you own enough), and 1/3 in Ethereum which gets 5% interest (if you own enough).

I think Bitcoin is at a decent price to buy, although sub-55k would be better. I think ETH will drop below 3k on the next dip and that will be a better time to buy.

Or just put a hundred bucks into the cheapest altcoins. It's really hard to say where the biggest potential is since everything is up so much right now.

No offense intended -- but "want to be safe" and then advice on buying crypto (to hold at places that pay improbably high interest rates) don't strike me as compatible statements.

Seriously wondering what those places have to gain by offering interest rates that high?  

 

EDIT: just to be clear, I don't have anything against someone making high risk investments.

Just understand that you're making high risk investments

Edited May 8, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[Tanooki | 4,934]

Interesting, but whatever that cap is for that level of interest with bitcoin and etherum I don't imagine I have anything close to that especially with that line about bitcoin and sub-55K($55000USD?)  I could probably throw $500 at something.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

13 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

No offense intended -- but "want to be safe" and then advice on buying crypto (to hold at places that pay improbably high interest rates) don't strike me as compatible statements.

Seriously wondering what those places have to gain by offering interest rates that high?  

 

EDIT: just to be clear, I don't have anything against someone making high risk investments.

Just understand that you're making high risk investments

I think some people downplay the risk level to try and convince themselves that their investments are safer than they are. I agree that high risk investments are fine, but it seems a little easier to jump into if you decide that it's not that risky. I've seen enough massive single day swings with bitcoin in both directions already that I'm basically numb to it.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

10 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Interesting, but whatever that cap is for that level of interest with bitcoin and etherum I don't imagine I have anything close to that especially with that line about bitcoin and sub-55K($55000USD?)  I could probably throw $500 at something.

You can buy $500 worth of bitcoin or ethereum. You don't have to buy a full coin.

[Tanooki | 4,934]

I suppose so I've read enough to know even if a coin costs $10000 you can still buy a piece.  Still though, I would imagine a return on a partial coin probably isn't worth the effort on something like that.  Sure the sub-dollar stuff likely isn't very stable or reliable compared so it's a trade off.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

6 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

I suppose so I've read enough to know even if a coin costs $10000 you can still buy a piece.  Still though, I would imagine a return on a partial coin probably isn't worth the effort on something like that.  Sure the sub-dollar stuff likely isn't very stable or reliable compared so it's a trade off.

True. It's possible that you might double your money by year end with bitcoin or ethereum, but if you're hoping for more, the < $1 coins may be a better option as long as you are willing to take on the risk. 

[OptOut | 8,889]

40 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

I suppose so I've read enough to know even if a coin costs $10000 you can still buy a piece.  Still though, I would imagine a return on a partial coin probably isn't worth the effort on something like that.  Sure the sub-dollar stuff likely isn't very stable or reliable compared so it's a trade off.

It sounds to me like you're trying to turn 500 bucks into a thousand or two thousand, and stroll... This is really not a investment attitude, you're really just asking which horse to bet on.

Here's the secret: Nobody knows! Your money is at risk, you may get lucky, or you might lose it all! 500 dollars is not investment seed capital, it's a bad weekend in Vegas.

Even if you do get lucky, and your 500 does turn into a thousand or two, which I fully admit is POSSIBLE, this attitude is gonna encourage you to let it ride, and see how much more you can win. That wil be great, until the bottom falls out, or you pick the wrong horse... You might be the next Warren Buffet, but with all respect to you, I wouldn't bet on THAT.

Be careful man, seriously! 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

2 minutes ago, OptOut said:

It sounds to me like you're trying to turn 500 bucks into a thousand or two thousand, and stroll... This is really not a investment attitude, you're really just asking which horse to bet on.

Here's the secret: Nobody knows! Your money is at risk, you may get lucky, or you might lose it all! 500 dollars is not investment seed capital, it's a bad weekend in Vegas.

Even if you do get lucky, and your 500 does turn into a thousand or two, which I fully admit is POSSIBLE, this attitude is gonna encourage you to let it ride, and see how much more you can win. That wil be great, until the bottom falls out, or you pick the wrong horse... You might be the next Warren Buffet, but with all respect to you, I wouldn't bet on THAT.

Be careful man, seriously! 

There's also the option of buying $500 worth of bitcoin and using it to gamble at a fine online casino where you can take your winnings in bitcoin for even more profits! 

[Tanooki | 4,934]

I don't go to casinos so you're kind of not reading me right.  I'd like it to grow, that's all.  The only reason I'd cash out would be I'd see some unsustainable bs going on, like pandemic pilferers going into overdrive on video games as much, which clearly will get a hard pop at some point here before long.  Then sure if my 500 turned into 5000 because some collective pile of d-bags make a 500 bit of currency go up 10x in price, much like some of those a-holes have done say with Pokemon games in the last 6months, sure...cash out and laugh when it implodes.  I'd rather it grow, I don't trust my 401k to be worth a shit if I ever want to retire at a reasonable age if ever.

[OptOut | 8,889]

19 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

I don't go to casinos so you're kind of not reading me right.  I'd like it to grow, that's all.  The only reason I'd cash out would be I'd see some unsustainable bs going on, like pandemic pilferers going into overdrive on video games as much, which clearly will get a hard pop at some point here before long.  Then sure if my 500 turned into 5000 because some collective pile of d-bags make a 500 bit of currency go up 10x in price, much like some of those a-holes have done say with Pokemon games in the last 6months, sure...cash out and laugh when it implodes.  I'd rather it grow, I don't trust my 401k to be worth a shit if I ever want to retire at a reasonable age if ever.

I thought a few people here took a look at your 401k and said it was looking good? So this is like a retirement plan, I'm confused about your motives?

The whole crypto market right now is super volatile, it's a thousand evolutionary dead ends and maybe a handful with long-term prospects. If you're looking at this as an ACTUAL investment, holding until retirement, I doubt 500 dollars is gonna be enough. You will need to make regular deposits into a diversified set of investments in order to build a position and hedge against losses.

500 dollars into a coin today, hoping that you'll be retiring from it when it's gone up to a million in 20 years just doesn't sound realistic to me. In order for you to make money with such a low initial investment, you would be RELYING on the kind of pump and dump scheme d-bags you literally just said you DON'T want to get involved in...

So you can see my confusion about what you're trying to get out, right? Is it to the moon growth, or a retirement fund?

[Link | 2,714]

1 hour ago, OptOut said:

The whole crypto market right now is super volatile

This. Does anyone see this ever, ever being anything but gambling on trends? Will it ever not be highly volatile? Are consumer markets irl going to start accepting crypto en masse? Never mind the 7,000 different kinds of coins already available?

It’s hilarious to me that superfans of this stuff talk trash about fiat currency, when crypto is the extreme extrapolation of the concept of baseless worth. 

Between crypto, collectors’ items, and lumber I feel like everything is super wack right now with no end in sight.

This is the most boring dystopia ever. We get global / interplanetary transportation transformation led by a psychopathic humorless jackass who will host SNL tomorrow, but no arcologies or data gloves? Still farming enormous fields of crapcorn and oppression by wages or law enforcement but 0 pills to feed you for a week or bikes flying between megatowers? Give me a break. 

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

11 hours ago, arch_8ngel said:

No offense intended -- but "want to be safe" and then advice on buying crypto (to hold at places that pay improbably high interest rates) don't strike me as compatible statements.

Seriously wondering what those places have to gain by offering interest rates that high?  

 

EDIT: just to be clear, I don't have anything against someone making high risk investments.

Just understand that you're making high risk investments

Well obviously "safe" is a relative term when referring to crypto. Tanooki already clearly stated his understanding of that fact, but I've updated the previous post so it's clear to new readers. In all markets, there are some strategies which are safer than others and what I suggested is a relatively safe investment strategy for crypto long term. BTC dropping 5k is only around a 10% loss which is an acceptable level of risk to most who are investing into growth stocks or crypto. Could it drop more than that? Of course, but BTC has shown remarkable stabilization over the past several months. Additionally, I recommended the USDC investment as a hedge here.

And if we're looking for the safest of safe options, you don't have to accept any more risk than you would with stocks. Coinbase Pro has a stop loss function. Decide the max amount you're willing to lose, put a stop loss order in, then go live your life. If you lose the amount you declared acceptable, call it a failed experiment and move on with your life.

Smart crypto investing doesn't have to equate to putting your life savings in DOGE at its all-time high.

As for how Voyager makes money, that's easy. They are a publicly traded company and you can look up their financials. They take the bid/ask spread (similar to Robinhood) which is extremely profitable in its own right. They also reinvest your money and profit from their own investments (similar to banks).

Edited May 8, 2021 by DoctorEncore