POLL: Who do you expect will win? (NOT who do you want to win)

[spacepup | 2,405]

https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/12/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election

"There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised."

[phart010 | 1,707]

4 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I’m hoping you mean “claims with evidence” because any ridiculous claim is a waste of tax payer money. 
 

But I agree, claims with CREDIBLE EVIDENCE should be looked into. 
 

Arent lawyers held to a standard by the Bar? (Not directed at you, just a general question) I wonder if any of these people bringing the nonsense lawsuits are going to face legal reprocussions. 

At this point in the game it doesn’t matter what the conventional rules are. You can argue that we shouldn’t waste time/money to look into allegations that don’t have credible evidence because this a waste of tax dollars.

Unfortunately just under half of the US population believes those allegations, so if you brush them aside as a waste time, that’s not gonna sit well with them. This is much bigger than Biden or Trump winning the election. I feel the way these hearings are handled are putting the country at risk of civil war. So they need to be dealt with officially, not just debunked or affirmed by biased opinion pieces.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,547]

That's why judges exist.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

Just now, phart010 said:

 

Unfortunately just under half of the US population believes those allegations...

And this is a genuine failure of the education system to turn out people capable of critical thought and able to identify obvious conspiracy theories.

(or possibly more fairly, just an indictment against the foolishness of people, in general)

Edited November 19, 2020 by arch_8ngel

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

2 minutes ago, phart010 said:

At this point in the game it doesn’t matter what the conventional rules are. You can argue that we shouldn’t waste time/money to look into allegations that don’t have credible evidence because this a waste of tax dollars.

Unfortunately just under half of the US population believes those allegations, so if you brush them aside as a waste time, that’s not gonna sit well with them. This is much bigger than Biden or Trump winning the election. I feel the way these hearings are handled are putting the country at risk of civil war. So they need to be dealt with officially, not just debunked or affirmed by biased opinion pieces.

You do know that judges that sit on these courts are obliterating every argument has been brought forward right? Like 0-24. 
 

rudy- there is fraud

judge- show us proof

rudy- we dont have any

judge-ok

 

this has nothing to do with biased opinion. 

[spacepup | 2,405]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election

This page on wikipedia is pretty interesting and, by the way, has lots of good references to official court results and legitimate documentation of what happened.  I actually research relatively thoroughly into stuff like this before making any judgments, and I certainly don't rely on only 'biased opinion pieces.'  The facts and results are overwhelmingly disproving the ridiculous claims of massive fraud and conspiracy theories.

[Tulpa | 3,514]

47 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Unfortunately just under half of the US population believes those allegations, so if you brush them aside as a waste time, that’s not gonna sit well with them. This is much bigger than Biden or Trump winning the election. I feel the way these hearings are handled are putting the country at risk of civil war. So they need to be dealt with officially, not just debunked or affirmed by biased opinion pieces.

At what point do we stop? Because Trump's team is going to push allegations as long as they can still breathe.

You do know the definition of insanity, right?

[tbone3969 | 306]

What good is democracy if you don't have people smart enough to make it flourish?

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

13 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

At what point do we stop? Because Trump's team is going to push allegations as long as they can still breathe.

You do know the definition of insanity, right?

Trump is going to have his lawyers keep drumming up conspiracy theories as long as his follower keep giving him donations.

If that well had run dry, he wouldn't be running this scam.

[phart010 | 1,707]

Crazy it may sound, but the guy is the president of the United States, which happens to be one of the most important offices in the world. So like him or not, you have to consider what his administration says

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

2 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Crazy it may sound, but the guy is the president of the United States, which happens to be one of the most important offices in the world. So like him or not, you have to consider what his administration says

Consider it fucking nonsense lol 
 

His abortion of an administration (which is mostly run by people grossly unqualified/ in-experienced) Lie about everything. Almost nothing they say is true, or based in reality. 
 

If you have proof of fraud, put up or shut up. Its been 2 weeks since the election, with zero evidence of any vote fraud. Just conspiracy theories. 

[Tulpa | 3,514]

9 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Crazy it may sound, but the guy is the president of the United States, which happens to be one of the most important offices in the world. So like him or not, you have to consider what his administration says

No, you don't. Not without credible evidence. It's a republic, not a dictatorship.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

7 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Crazy it may sound, but the guy is the president of the United States, which happens to be one of the most important offices in the world. So like him or not, you have to consider what his administration says

You certainly do NOT have to consider it, at face value, in a vacuum, without the larger context of Trump and Giuliani being prolific liars of the highest order, and Trump personally likely dealing with concerns of prosecution the moment he steps out of office.

He has enormous perverse incentives at play.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,547]

1 hour ago, phart010 said:

Crazy it may sound, but the guy is the president of the United States, which happens to be one of the most important offices in the world. So like him or not, you have to consider what his administration says

Do we, though?

 

[Hammerfestus | 3,858]

So, how does this end?  I mean going quietly into the night just seems so improbable.  Ol what’s his face has so thoroughly lied and deflected and insisted than a lot more than his cult believe without evidence that our elections aren’t valid because they didn’t get their way.  This has to come to a head.   What is it?

[phart010 | 1,707]

28 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Do we, though?

 

I can’t speak on the birther conspiracy theory because I’m totally ignorant to the details. But I can’t imagine they would actually let you run for President without first verifying your birth certificate.

But just to play devil’s advocate here, I was watching a Patrick Bet-David interview with John Perkins who is the author of Confessions of an economic hit man. His story sounds pretty strange but eerily believable. Highly recommended podcast if you have an hour even if it’s fiction it’s entertaining. Although, if his story is true it’s strange that he would be able to openly speak about such things if he actually participated in them.
 

One thing he said that rang loudly to me and I’ll never forget is  “a plane crash is the easiest way to assassinate someone.”

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

5 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

So, how does this end?  I mean going quietly into the night just seems so improbable.  Ol what’s his face has so thoroughly lied and deflected and insisted than a lot more than his cult believe without evidence that our elections aren’t valid because they didn’t get their way.  This has to come to a head.   What is it?

I think there is a non-trivial he's going to overestimate his chances and get frog-marched, to promptly be arrested on state and federal charges.

If he was less egotistical, he'd bail now, and try to get pardons.  Or at the very least, try to be conciliatory with Biden and hope for a "truce" that would result in pardons from the incoming administration.

 

Dude is toast.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

5 minutes ago, phart010 said:

One thing he said that rang loudly to me and I’ll never forget is  “a plane crash is the easiest way to assassinate someone.”

Well that just isn't even close to the truth.

[Hammerfestus | 3,858]

1 minute ago, arch_8ngel said:

I think there is a non-trivial he's going to overestimate his chances and get frog-marched, to promptly be arrested on state and federal charges.

If he was less egotistical, he'd bail now, and try to get pardons.  Or at the very least, try to be conciliatory with Biden and hope for a "truce" that would result in pardons from the incoming administration.

 

Dude is toast.

I’m mean in a world that makes sense yeah but I don’t know if I trust that he’ll let fate take his course.  Even after he’s gone something is going to have to be done about the up is down black is white crowd.  I fail to see how this all just goes quiet next spring.  So much propaganda has been pumped in...

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

Just now, Hammerfestus said:

I’m mean in a world that makes sense yeah but I don’t know if I trust that he’ll let fate take his course.  Even after he’s gone something is going to have to be done about the up is down black is white crowd.  I fail to see how this all just goes quiet next spring.  So much propaganda has been pumped in...

I agree that there are still going to be real problems with his followers.

But hopefully, once he is ineligible for a 2nd term, and the justice system is able to property take its course, things may settle down by the next election cycle, as the hangover wears off.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,547]

Nah, Marjorie Taylor Green will get the ticket and we'll start the whole cycle over again.

[phart010 | 1,707]

17 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

I think there is a non-trivial he's going to overestimate his chances and get frog-marched, to promptly be arrested on state and federal charges.

If he was less egotistical, he'd bail now, and try to get pardons.  Or at the very least, try to be conciliatory with Biden and hope for a "truce" that would result in pardons from the incoming administration.

 

Dude is toast.

I wonder whether they will actually pursue any charges on him. Even assuming they have damning evidence on him from a-z, I think the US government considers that would be a bad decision for US domestically and in foreign policy. It would send a bad message to the international community. What becomes the status of  international agreements that were made during the Trump administration? If we say Trump was a criminal and throw him in jail, do those agreements he made lose legitimacy??

What about legislation he signed. If he’s a criminal we have archived legislation that signed off and approved by a criminal. 
 

Assuming no twists with the electoral college and he peacefully leaves the White House, I think they let him walk and at worst try to stop him from being eligible for a second term. Joe Biden already said he’s not going to pursue any charges.

Edited November 20, 2020 by phart010

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

18 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

I think there is a non-trivial he's going to overestimate his chances and get frog-marched, to promptly be arrested on state and federal charges.

If he was less egotistical, he'd bail now, and try to get pardons.  Or at the very least, try to be conciliatory with Biden and hope for a "truce" that would result in pardons from the incoming administration.

 

Dude is toast.

One can only hope.

What is the penalty for treason nowadays?

[Hammerfestus | 3,858]

I had a whole thing typed up about Gingrich and Limbaugh and Palin and W and both sides playing to corporate interests and churches being encouraged to become political entities and our national disdain for education and our worship of a economic system that 90%  of the country doesn’t even kind of understand but they’ve been told that it’s Jesus and that sounds good.  And the other economic system that has demonstrable benefits but it’s been tenuously tief to a word that we’ve been propagandized to believe is scary based on I don’t know Cuba or something.  And the other side actually doesn’t believe in or understand science any more than the jesus freaks but are much more liberal in cherry picking science they like rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water.  The core is simply fucking rotten.  It’s just mush.

[Tulpa | 3,514]

16 minutes ago, phart010 said:

I wonder whether they will actually pursue any charges on him. Even assuming they have damning evidence on him from a-z, I think the US government considers that would be a bad decision for US domestically and in foreign policy. It would send a bad message to the international community. What becomes the status of  international agreements that were made during the Trump administration? If we say Trump was a criminal and throw him in jail, do those agreements he made lose legitimacy??

What about legislation he signed. If he’s a criminal we have archived legislation that signed off and approved by a criminal. 
 

Assuming no twists with the electoral college and he peacefully leaves the White House, I think they let him walk and at worst try to stop him from being eligible for a second term. Joe Biden already said he’s not going to pursue any charges.

Keep in mind a lot of the charges could be state charges (specifically NY State) and therefore wouldn't be beholden to the incoming administration's DOJ.