Fighting Scalpers -- the thread

[captmorgandrinker | 1,650]

5 minutes ago, Sumer said:

Apparently, there was a sale on eBay for this pin set for $150 already tonight.  No patience these days.

I'm afraid to ask about the Target magnets.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,617]

14 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

I'm afraid to ask about the Target magnets.

They're... around $20 to $25. They're... actually reasonably priced? What is this nonsense?!

[Gloves | 11,830]

15 minutes ago, ZeldaFreak said:

They're... around $20 to $25. They're... actually reasonably priced? What is this nonsense?!

Quick reminder: you're talking about magnets.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,650]

3 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Quick reminder: you're talking about magnets.

That were free

I was going to switch my preorder from Best Buy to Target, but I didn't see the magnet offer and figured it was gone.

Looks like I'll make up for that in pins!   MUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAA

[Gloves | 11,830]

1 minute ago, captmorgandrinker said:

That were free

I was going to switch my preorder from Best Buy to Target, but I didn't see the magnet offer and figured it was gone.

Looks like I'll make up for that in pins!   MUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAA

 

[RH | 4,966]

The fact is the pins are now the hot new item (and there's a bitter irony that they've now sold at TWICE the price of the game itself) and one FOMO cools down, it wouldn't surprise me if these pins go for $10-15 this time next year.  Of course, if Nintendo really did only make about 5,000 of these, then I could be wrong.  They might actually be rare for an officially licensed item.

[Gloves | 11,830]

11 hours ago, RH said:

The fact is the pins are now the hot new item (and there's a bitter irony that they've now sold at TWICE the price of the game itself) and one FOMO cools down, it wouldn't surprise me if these pins go for $10-15 this time next year.  Of course, if Nintendo really did only make about 5,000 of these, then I could be wrong.  They might actually be rare for an officially licensed item.

For all the widely advertised licensed things we all know about there's just as many dinky little licensed things that people don't see and get totally passed on. The collect-it mania has people by the balls and it's hilarious to me. 

I wonder what those cereal boxes are going for nowadays. 

[avatar! | 1,827]

Scalping may be legal, but I don't consider it ethical nor defensible. What service do scalpers offer? The answer is none. Mind you, when I'm talking about scalping I'm not talking about the person who purchased a game and then later decided to sell it for 2-3 times the cost because that was what it was going for on ebay. I'm not referring to the guy that found a couple of Switches or something like that and decided to sell them at markup. I'm talking about the people that use bots and purchase every single thing they can simply to then resell it for huge markups. There actually are some ticket scalping laws in some states - although I am not aware of scalping laws against other products except "essential items" as was evidenced during this pandemic. Okay sure, video games have never been a necessity. However, simply stating that I feel is disingenuous to the argument against scalping in the first place. Scalpers are little shits that serve absolutely zero purpose in society and are just parasites. Ideally, sure, no one would support them, so why do people purchase from them? Sometimes (arguably often) because the venue doesn't care so long as they sell as much as possible be it Switches or tickets. For example

https://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/2018/09/19/we-went-undercover-as-ticket-scalpers-and-ticketmaster-offered-to-help-us-do-business.html

Other times, people have no choice. Say you're going with your family on vacation, which is of course very expensive. You want to see this show but it's sold out, what are you going to do? Probably pay scalper prices. Or are you really going to disappoint your family? Same thing with video games to an extent. If your kid is crying for a Switch what are you going to do if it seems to be sold out everywhere for months?? And of course some items truly are limited. Anyone remember the Wizard Edition of Ni No Kuni for the PS3? Yeah well, a scalper purchased those. HUNDREDS OF THEM. In turn, hundreds of actual customers were left out in the cold. Then said shit sold them for a 400% markup

https://kotaku.com/ni-no-kuni-makers-respond-to-wizards-edition-fiasco-de-5979157

Ideally sure, people would just stop supporting them and maybe eventually enough people will be fed-up that that will happen. Until then, I'm all in favor of doing whatever possible to try to slow/stop scalpers.

 

[GPX | 1,373]

17 hours ago, Gloves said:

Fighting Scalpers coming this holiday season for the NES!

*insert cool drawing of scalpers literally fighting with baseball bats and chains in a parking lot*

Clayfighter Scalpers Cut.

StreetFighter 2 Scalpers Edition.

Edited September 22, 2020 by GPX

[RH | 4,966]

Look, everyone may hate it but scalpers absolutely do fill a service.  They are a second wave of available supply. @avatar! On the one hand, you mention that "scalpers serve no purpose" and then you actually site two cases where a scalper provides a service--getting tickets to an event on vacation OR getting that super-hot-item that some parent promised to their kids.

My point about the current set of circumstances, at least for GPUs, consoles and some games is that games wouldn't sell for 2-10x the mark up if there weren't enough people to value those items at those prices.  Scalpers would literally disappear if 100% of the people wanting a good or service refused to pay more than retail.  If that were to magically happen (and it never will) then that family on vacation won't be able to find a scalper because scalpers can't sell and make money in an environment like that, and the estranged Dad will be out of luck at Christmas because he won't be able to find a console for sale.  If they are sold out, they will all be in the hands of parents/people that want them.

You can call it ugly and dirty but what really gives these beasts strength are the people that will throw cash at these resellers.

Related, but not directly--I didn't watch the TicketMaster video but I'm shocked that they could aid scalpers in getting big blocks of tickets legally.  Yes, scalping is illegal in some places and if you want to resell tickets, some states have laws like you can only sell the tickets at 10% above initial face value.  The idea is that scalpers can't charge exorbitant amounts, but if you can't attend the event for some reason, you can still sell your tickets and not lose the money.  If TicketMaster aids scalpers, there must be no such laws in the states they are operating in.

I will admit that it's sad to see TM feeding that beast, however, I think it proves my point that it's more important to music producers and businesses to "immediately sell out" tickets, rather than have the be on sale for months leading up to the event.  TicketMaster may love it too because they don't had to deal with supporting the sales of the event tickets for more than a week or so, and then they are done with it.  In this case though, scalpers are "scalpers" only by name.  They are now the a seconds tier middle-man distributor.

It actually reminds me of what it's like trying to get a hot IPO on the day it launches for a company.  A company could be valued at one hundred million shares sold at $25 each on opening day.  You want to buy in at that price but you and I average Joe trader will never get that price (unless it was over valued to begin with.)  The company sells those stocks through a managing firm (which would be Ticket Master in this case) but almost all of those stocks are sold immediately to huge investment firms (Prudential, Allianz, etc.) and companies that hold stocks to resell to smaller traders like us (Schwab, Ameritrade, etc.) and there actually might be another tier in between that one before it gets to the individual.  Those middle man companies are the "scalpers" and become the actual marketplace where small time buyers can buy into the stock.  We don't hold it against them because each layer of the sale is a different type of business that has different types of infrastructure in place to sell stocks.

Selling arena tickets is a big business and they are hot items.  The scalper allows the big-lot sellers to quickly unload their inventory.  The cut for the scalper is their profit and they will only do it if profits are high because, in some cases (and I've seen this) ticket scalpers are left with high-dollar tickets they couldn't sell in time for events.  Does that suck to know that second-row seats might go unfilled for your favorite band?  Yes, but scalpers allow a way for you to get those tickets without having to camp out or hit the refresh button again and again at 6:00AM.  The prices would go down and possibly feel "reasonable" and actually like a "service" if some many people weren't rabid to buy from these sellers.  Alas, they will and the scalper will just continue to meet crazy market demand pricing.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

9 hours ago, Gloves said:

For all the widely advertised lecensed things we all know about there's just as many dinky little licensed things that people don't see and get totally passed on. The collect-it mania has people by the balls and it's hilarious to me. 

I wonder what those cereal boxes are going for nowadays. 

Yep... Nintendo pins have been on eBay forever (even some of the same designs) for pennies on the dollar. The fact that someone would spend more than pocket change on these is insane. Nintendo has perfected FOMO advertising and distribution and it only seems to be getting more aggressive as more people buy into it and scalpers take advantage. 

[captmorgandrinker | 1,650]

2 hours ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

Yep... Nintendo pins have been on eBay forever (even some of the same designs) for pennies on the dollar. The fact that someone would spend more than pocket change on these is insane. Nintendo has perfected FOMO advertising and distribution and it only seems to be getting more aggressive as more people buy into it and scalpers take advantage. 

Let's keep that our little secret until your ol' pal Capt unloads this set!

 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

3 hours ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

Yep... Nintendo pins have been on eBay forever (even some of the same designs) for pennies on the dollar. The fact that someone would spend more than pocket change on these is insane. Nintendo has perfected FOMO advertising and distribution and it only seems to be getting more aggressive as more people buy into it and scalpers take advantage. 

I was wondering. I swear I had some of those exact same ones when I was a kid.

[avatar! | 1,827]

7 hours ago, RH said:

Look, everyone may hate it but scalpers absolutely do fill a service.  They are a second wave of available supply. @avatar! On the one hand, you mention that "scalpers serve no purpose" and then you actually site two cases where a scalper provides a service--getting tickets to an event on vacation OR getting that super-hot-item that some parent promised to their kids.

With all due respect, I do believe you are overlooking the point that without scalpers you could get the tickets to an event while on vacation or that super-hot-item at retail price. All scalpers due is cause an artificial inflation. Case in point being the limited edition of Ni No Kuni for the PS3. Because of scalpers hundreds of people lost their order. Also, due to such huge mark-ups many people simply can not afford scalper prices, so they are not a second wave of available supply. If anything they are a first wave of available supply to those with large pockets willing to accept a huge mark-up or to desperate people as we discussed previously. 

[RH | 4,966]

4 minutes ago, avatar! said:

With all due respect, I do believe you are overlooking the point that without scalpers you could get the tickets to an event while on vacation or that super-hot-item at retail price. All scalpers due is cause an artificial inflation. Case in point being the limited edition of Ni No Kuni for the PS3. Because of scalpers hundreds of people lost their order. Also, due to such huge mark-ups many people simply can not afford scalper prices, so they are not a second wave of available supply. If anything they are a first wave of available supply to those with large pockets willing to accept a huge mark-up or to desperate people as we discussed previously. 

And with further respect (just to be clear, no malice), I have no clue what happened with Ni No Kuni, but if scalpers bought up 90% of the day-one supply of some special edition, then they either returned that supply because it didn't sell, or the market reinforced that what they did was "appropriate".

Serious question, though.  How did real fans lose their orders? Did they put in preorders and they weren't fulfilled because the game was over bought? IMHO, that's poor management of he preorder system.  If you are going to take preorders, you do that so you know how many goods you need to have premanufactured and ready to ship on launch day.

[avatar! | 1,827]

Just now, RH said:

And with further respect (just to be clear, no malice), I have no clue what happened with Ni No Kuni, but if scalpers bought up 90% of the day-one supply of some special edition, then they either returned that supply because it didn't sell, or the market reinforced that what they did was "appropriate".

Serious question, though.  How did real fans lose their orders? Did they put in preorders and they weren't fulfilled because the game was over bought? IMHO, that's poor management of he preorder system.  If you are going to take preorders, you do that so you know how many goods you need to have premanufactured and ready to ship on launch day.

It's unclear exactly what happened with Ni No Kuni. So many people lost their orders that there has long been talk about some collusion between someone or some people in Bandai and the scalper. But, Bandai denied this of course, and to this day they say it was a "glitch" in their system. The thing about scalping, especially tickets, is that scalpers do not return their supply. Instead people miss out. Scalpers purchase a lot of tickets, knowing that some of those they probably not sell. But their mark-ups are so huge, that they can take those losses. So in the end, a sold-out performance might have say 15% empty seats because scalpers could not sell those. In that case, people who really wanted to see the show just are out of luck. You could say that is "how the market works" but I actually think that is market manipulation which again, in some states is illegal.

[RH | 4,966]

8 minutes ago, avatar! said:

It's unclear exactly what happened with Ni No Kuni. So many people lost their orders that there has long been talk about some collusion between someone or some people in Bandai and the scalper. But, Bandai denied this of course, and to this day they say it was a "glitch" in their system. The thing about scalping, especially tickets, is that scalpers do not return their supply. Instead people miss out. Scalpers purchase a lot of tickets, knowing that some of those they probably not sell. But their mark-ups are so huge, that they can take those losses. So in the end, a sold-out performance might have say 15% empty seats because scalpers could not sell those. In that case, people who really wanted to see the show just are out of luck. You could say that is "how the market works" but I actually think that is market manipulation which again, in some states is illegal.

I'm not necessarily saying that's a problem but I'm also not saying I think it should be illegal.  I don't.  This is a problem of lazy, or poorly managed, distribution of tickets due to undervaluing them. Proper pricing of tickets when you start selling the tickets, say 6+ months in advance, should be able to be sold slowly over that time frame.  You can price them high and if the venue can't sell the tickets well, they drop the price.  In such a case, those fans really, really wanting to attend can pay the initial fee.  Those people that just casually like a band can wait and buy discounted tickets.  In the long run, companies might make more money this way, or at least make the same profits, but buy creating a value where tickets are undervalued most of the time, scalpers come in because most people won't wait early in the morning to buy tickets.

Again, I think we're just going to run around in circles.  To me, the blame is on the music industry and companies like TicketMaster who like the free advertising for their bands/musicians by making them sell out immediately.  I don't think it use to be that way.  In fact, consider events like Disney on Ice, Monster Jam events and even the Circus when it was still around.  They never sold out until usually right before those events were about to occur.  That's because Feld Entertainment (the owners of all of those traveling productions) kept the old business model and, IMHO, that is a much more fair model to the fans of the entertainment.

Edited September 22, 2020 by RH

[T-Pac | 7,587]

On 9/21/2020 at 11:34 AM, Gloves said:

Fighting Scalpers coming this holiday season for the NES!

*insert cool drawing of scalpers literally fighting with baseball bats and chains in a parking lot*

 

12 hours ago, GPX said:

StreetFighter 2 Scalpers Edition.

[Gloves | 11,830]

1 hour ago, CasualCart said:

 

Theeeeere he is.

[Sumer | 221]

1 hour ago, CasualCart said:

 

Phenomenal!

[cartman | 195]

10 hours ago, avatar! said:

With all due respect, I do believe you are overlooking the point that without scalpers you could get the tickets to an event while on vacation or that super-hot-item at retail price. All scalpers due is cause an artificial inflation. Case in point being the limited edition of Ni No Kuni for the PS3. Because of scalpers hundreds of people lost their order. Also, due to such huge mark-ups many people simply can not afford scalper prices, so they are not a second wave of available supply. If anything they are a first wave of available supply to those with large pockets willing to accept a huge mark-up or to desperate people as we discussed previously. 

I blame the company for that. Why are they releasing a product in such a short supply for people to get left out?

The reseller and buyers in general just operate on the market that the company itself created by failing to accomodate properly. Yes resellers are taking advantage but they didn't create the circumstances in wich that could happen.

[avatar! | 1,827]

20 minutes ago, cartman said:

I blame the company for that. Why are they releasing a product in such a short supply for people to get left out?

The reseller and buyers in general just operate on the market that the company itself created by failing to accomodate properly. Yes resellers are taking advantage but they didn't create the circumstances in wich that could happen.

I assume (someone correct me if I'm mistaken) that a company wants to maximize profits. So in the case of Ni No Kuni they figured "if we make X of these limited editions they will likely sell, but if make 2X then they won't sell and we'll lose money" - I believe that's how it all works. So did they underestimate the demand or did they simply not foresee a scalper purchasing hundreds of copies - or is that the same thing? Honestly not sure. You could also argue that companies should just have open pre-orders, which I'm in favor of, or just make more copies when there's a demand. In the latter, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a limited edition? Also, in general companies can't just keep producing limited editions since they do run the risk of losing substantial money if it doesn't sell. 

[cartman | 195]

41 minutes ago, avatar! said:

I assume (someone correct me if I'm mistaken) that a company wants to maximize profits. So in the case of Ni No Kuni they figured "if we make X of these limited editions they will likely sell, but if make 2X then they won't sell and we'll lose money" - I believe that's how it all works. So did they underestimate the demand or did they simply not foresee a scalper purchasing hundreds of copies - or is that the same thing? Honestly not sure. You could also argue that companies should just have open pre-orders, which I'm in favor of, or just make more copies when there's a demand. In the latter, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a limited edition? Also, in general companies can't just keep producing limited editions since they do run the risk of losing substantial money if it doesn't sell. 

Well if there is an abundance you can't hoard enough to resell effectively that was my thought. I mean you could theoretically hoard anything, buying millions of copies of CoD or something, but it doesn't happen in practise. But then again they know CoD has that type of following wich they can't count on with smaller titles so if they massproduced those they might end up with too much leftover stock i guess? So yeah i think re-runs or preorders are the way to go.

But limited edition releases it's kinda innate that everyone can't get it so i don't think you can prevent resales on that. If that is an issue then you gotta concede that perhaps LE's isn't a so good practise to begin with and should be done away it. 

[GPX | 1,373]

I think there are 2 separate issues here:

1. Are scalpers all bastards? Probably not.

As a few have stated, scalpers exist due to there being a demand/market for scalpers to thrive in. If there is no demand, then the scalpers would quickly die out or likely revert to baseline prices or thereabouts.

2. Can scalpers be bastards? Absolutely yes. But then anyone that calls themselves “collector”, “investor”, “reseller” can all be bastards too. I think this is where the ethical debate comes in. The bigger issue here is “what constitutes ethical practices?”

 

[a3quit4s | 4,124]

This doesn’t ring for Amazon or NewEgg (see the latest graphics card releases being sold out) but brick and mortars like Best Buy or GameStop could really help themselves by not taking preorders online and drive people to their stores. This helps really enforce limit one per customer, enables impulse buying while at the store, and repairs relationships with customers who feel scorned by scalpers or everyone in this thread. 
 

Obviously pandemic and masks and 6 feet and hand sanitizer. 

Even for Amazon and NewEgg, Nvidia put recapcha on their checkout (afterbeingsoldoutlol). 
 

Like I said before though retailers don’t give 2 shits about who paid the $499 or whatever for the console or $25whatever for a set of Mario pins as long as someone did. Only way to hurt them is to not buy from scalpers, force the returns, and decrease the already low profit margin of these things.