Movie Debate #26: Willow

[Reed Rothchild | 9,599]

[Reed Rothchild | 9,599]

Part 1 of 2 for @arch_8ngel's picks

[Tekdrudge | 126]

Fantastic film! I feel it is a very under appreciated movie. I watched it all the time as a kid. Not in my top 10 but maybe top 25. One of Val Kilmers best roles.

[Gloves | 11,847]

Fuckin love it.

[fox | 1,683]

It ain't Lord of the Rings, but is still better than most 80s Sword and Sorcery flicks.  Can't hate on Warwick Davis.  Wizard battle at the end is sick.

6/10

[MeganJoanne | 365]

One of the best movies of all time.

[Jeevan | 8,975]

10, no need to explain myself, the movie does all the talkin'

[RH | 4,988]

Yeah, this was a pretty good film.  I didn't get to see it as a kid and right after Disney+ came out, I was scrolling through the 80s section, and I saw this.  This was probably the first film I watched on the service that was in the "stuff I originally missed" category, before I watched Tron Legacy.  Anyway, it's a kids film which often doesn't hold up well as time goes on, but I was pleasantly surprised.  It was quite entertaining and, honestly, I always assumed Warwick Davis was just a supporting actor.  I had NO CLUE he was the main character on the 'heroes journey".

Anyway, it's definitely one worth watching if, like me, you missed it in the 80s.  Plus, I always have a soft spot for really good, old school practical effects.  This film was great in that regard too.

[doner24 | 1,197]

Best movie George Lucas or Ron Howard have ever been associated with. 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

5 hours ago, fox said:

It ain't Lord of the Rings, but is still better than most 80s Sword and Sorcery flicks.  Can't hate on Warwick Davis.  Wizard battle at the end is sick.

6/10

You're right, it's BETTER than Lord of the Rings.  They get an awesome swords-and-sorcery tale wrapped up in a reasonable amount of time, in a single sitting.

10/10, one of the best!

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

In case you can't tell, I LOVE this movie.  I LOVE both versions of the video game (NES and arcade).  And I definitely regret never buying the action figures as a kid  (and pretty sure I always pretended that my LEGO Black Knight's Castle was Nockmar)

Willow and Madmartigan are probably my all-time favorite duo.

Sorsha is SMOKING hot, and a deserving crush for young men the world over.

For a kid General Kael is one of the scariest physical presences in a swords-and-sorcery movie, only rivaled by Dagon in Conan the Destroyer.

The level of world-building is incredible for how casually all of the fantasy elements are introduced.  (all sorts of mystical things "just are" in a way that makes sense in the context of the movie and the world they live in)

The two-headed fire breathing monster is incredible.

 

And the entire things holds up WELL and it fits into a comfortable viewing length to get through in one evening with even young kids maintaining interest.

 

 

EDIT:  also, once I learned more of the behind-the-scenes, it was mind blowing to find out that Warwick Davis was only 17 when we played Willow. (and only 11 when he played Wicket in RotJ)

Edited July 16, 2020 by arch_8ngel

[RH | 4,988]

2 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

In case you can't tell, I LOVE this movie.  I LOVE both versions of the video game (NES and arcade).  And I definitely regret never buying the action figures as a kid

Willow and Madmartigan are probably my all-time favorite duo.

Sorsha is SMOKING hot, and a deserving crush for young men the world over.

For a kid General Kael is one of the scariest physical presences in a swords-and-sorcery movie, only rivaled by Dagon in Conan the Destroyer.

The level of world-building is incredible for how casually all of the fantasy elements are introduced.  (all sorts of mystical things "just are" in a way that makes sense in the context of the movie and the world they live in)

The two-headed fire breathing monster is incredible.

 

And the entire things holds up WELL and it fits into a comfortable viewing length to get through in one evening with even young kids maintaining interest.

It really makes you ask the question, what happened to George Lucas between this and TPM.  Did he write Willow?  Regardless, he certainly made it. I'm to lazy to look for his body of work between this time but, basically, if he made it in the 70s-80s, it was a really great film... and then it all goes crashing down from there!  What happened to the man?!

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

29 minutes ago, RH said:

It really makes you ask the question, what happened to George Lucas between this and TPM.  Did he write Willow?  Regardless, he certainly made it. I'm to lazy to look for his body of work between this time but, basically, if he made it in the 70s-80s, it was a really great film... and then it all goes crashing down from there!  What happened to the man?!

The critical distinction versus TPM, is that Ron Howard directed Willow, and Bob Dolman wrote the screenplay (evidently it went through 7 drafts to get to the final script, and other than some TV writing, he didn't really have any other credits at the time - Willow was his first movie, and certainly looks to be his best by far). 

George Lucas "created the story" that it is based on and provided Lucasfilm as the production company with ILM for the practical effects.

No matter how terrible of a director George Lucas is, the technical excellence of his effects company is top notch and always has been.

 

"What happened", I think, is Lucas getting enough authority to do things 100% "his way" versus being in arrangements where he let better directors and better writers do a lot of the work of the final product.  The guy is great at the broad strokes of interesting and epic stories, but is pretty darn bad at the final execution where people are involved, versus the model building and practical effects.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by arch_8ngel

[Tulpa | 3,538]

The other thing is that Willow was a joint production between Lucasfilm, Imagine Entertainment (Howard's company) and MGM, as opposed to TPM which was almost entirely a Lucasfilm production with 20th Century Fox acting primarily as distributor.

[Gary Hobbesworth | 20]

It's definitely a better fantasy movie than the sort of stuff we get these days. Practical effects, lots of action, and George Lucas could still write a decent script with likeable characters (mostly likeable characters, the brownies or whatever they're called come close to ruining the movie for me).

Also, the NES game had one of the best romances in video game history.

 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

28 minutes ago, Gary Hobbesworth said:

Also, the NES game had one of the best romances in video game history.

Genuinely, the only flaw with that game is the choice of font for the password system and the last boss battle requiring perfect execution (i.e. no missed attacks, or you can't kill her)

[Jeevan | 8,975]

Bought the game as soon as I could find a good copy.  I beat it for the first time too!!!!!  The game is different but good.  I love it, played it as a kid, never was able to get that far kuz we rented it of course.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

13 hours ago, Jeevan said:

Bought the game as soon as I could find a good copy.  I beat it for the first time too!!!!!  The game is different but good.  I love it, played it as a kid, never was able to get that far kuz we rented it of course.

That was the only saving grace of the password system on that game...repeat rentals. (same with Faxanadu)

Versus Final Fantasy, where I don't think my friend and I could ever get further than Astos during a sleep-over rental.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,599]

Bump

[Shawn | 31]

This one gets a 9 from me. Watched it in the theatre when it came out and have watched it many more times over the years on home video.

[Jeevan | 8,975]

21 minutes ago, Shawn said:

This one gets a 9 from me. Watched it in the theatre when it came out and have watched it many more times over the years on home video.

Never seen it on the big screen, but would usually borrow it from the library whenever it was available on VHS 

one of the first dvds I bought when I got a DVD player

[Sumez | 2,996]

This movie goes up or down a bit for me every time I watch it, and for some reason I can never remember anything from it inbetween viewings, despite having seen it like 4-5 times at least, and played both of the video games.

As I recall it not a great fantasy movie, but wins through extremely likable characters and endearing performances and setpieces. I like it a lot.

7/10

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

4 hours ago, Sumez said:

As I recall it not a great fantasy movie, but wins through extremely likable characters and endearing performances and setpieces. I like it a lot.

The ONLY thing that ever breaks the magic for me is Madmartigan's line about the "king of kasmir". 

Otherwise it is solid swords-and-sorcery on the tail end of the era where that genre saw its prime.

[BriGuy82 | 797]

I went to a birthday party when I was a kid and this movie was playing on a projector. I only saw bits and pieces. Maybe I'll look for it to watch again. 

[JamesRobot | 5,842]

I'm sitting on a 4 currently for Willow but I haven't seen it in a long time.  The wife was actually talking about watching this with the kids soon.  Maybe I will change my tune but I can't remember ever really liking it.  I have a bunch of the era's sword n sorcery movies on DVD but this one never stood out to me.