General Current Events/Political Discussion

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

32 minutes ago, Gundam00 said:

You should be concerned that the situation, across the United States, has reached the point they have to protest armed not that they are. 

 

But they do not "have to protest armed".  They are choosing to.  But there is nothing about the current situation that requires it.

They are feeding into a stereotype, and it almost certainly is doing more harm than good for the cause they think they are supporting.

 

[Gundam00 | 6]

20 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Not throwing rocks here (as it were) - just a point of clarification.

The "milkshakes"* they use are not hardened - they have large percentage of concrete with just enough milkshake to keep them from getting very stiff or hardening.  Concrete* contains a high proportion of lime which is nasty stuff.  It can burn exposed skin easily and if it gets in your eyes it will likely essentially disable you since that is really painful and will likely cause blurred vision.  In extreme cases it can lead to temporary (or even pa ermanebt blindness). I spend way too many summers in high school making concrete by using a power mixer to blend cement, sand and lime to make concrete. While you could dump a whole bag of cement in the mixer you had to put the sand and lime in by the shovel full.  The lime was a real pain since it was basically a powder and you would have to wear gloves and a long sleeve shirt no matter how hot it was.   

*They may not even be strictly concrete based - you could make a much nastier concoction by just using lime (maybe quicklime which is even nastier  - not sure how long it takes to set in such a situation though).

**Depending on what you are doing with it gravel is often added - that would be counter productive in this case.

You missed the point....

 

If you hit someone with something that can disable or kill them...who do you think is responsible? The concrete milkshake is still a weapon. Let's say that the person gets hit with your milkshake formula, then falls into the road blinded and gets hit...who's fault is that? Who hit who with a weapon and caused their death? Who had the intent to cause, maybe permanent, harm to another? That person is still more dangerous than the armed person with no intent. Or, what if the person has neck problems or head and you smash a heavy milkshake into them causing them death or paralysis? Who's fault is that? It was just a milkshake after all. 

 

This is all opinion though 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Gundam00

[Tabonga | 2,344]

1 minute ago, Gundam00 said:

You missed the point....

 

If you hit someone with something that can disable or kill them...who do you think is responsible? The concrete milkshake is still a weapon. Let's say that the person gets hit with your milkshake formula, then falls into the road blinded and gets hit...who's fault is that? Who hit who with a weapon and caused their death? Who had the intent to cause, maybe permanent, harm to another? That person is still more dangerous than the armed person with no intent. Or, what if the person has neck problems or head and you smash a heavy milkshake into them causing them death or paralysis? Who's fault is that? It was just a milkshake after all. 

 

This is all opinion though so take it as you will. 

Not arguing with you at all - as I said I was clarifying - if anything the liquid is more of a threat in couple of ways (although not in the potentially lethal category) than a hardened one would be IMHO. 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

13 minutes ago, Gundam00 said:

The concrete milkshake is still a weapon.

Was anyone in the thread suggesting that any other category of weapon would be a good idea to have along at this kind of protest?

 

 

[Link | 2,737]

4 hours ago, Gundam00 said:

they have to protest armed

Why?

[Estil | 1,265]

8 hours ago, Californication said:

If they were black, they would get shot.

This is called presumption of racist.  You could say a sub-category of fake racism.

PS: Just for clarification I think they guys doing this whole bringing open rifles to gov't statehouses is just as dangerous and just as silly and "makes them look really bad" as the so-called Antifa (short for "anti-fascist") were.  Regarding the latter, have you seen how they also had on evil looking dark armor or something?  I mean if that's what they call "anti-fascist" I shudder to think what an honest to goodness pro/neo-fascist group would be like!!!! >_<

Edited May 3, 2020 by Estil

[Estil | 1,265]

8 hours ago, Gundam00 said:

The concrete milkshake is still a weapon.

Wow, I honestly didn't know there even was such a thing   Whatever happened to these kind of milkshakes?  

 

[Californication | 1,490]

You got fake racism and concrete milkshakes, you guys come up with new stuff so often it is hard to keep up.

[Gundam00 | 6]

2 hours ago, Californication said:

You got fake racism and concrete milkshakes, you guys come up with new stuff so often it is hard to keep up.

You mean the media tells the truth and the police force of Portland isn’t controlled by politics? That antifa hasn’t been caught with improvised weapons and weapons? That Portland police hasn’t had leaks from current and former officers about political influence, heavy anti-police mentality, corruption, inability to do their jobs, officers quitting....

 

 Yea, I’m so silly. If the police, and city, have a vested interest in keeping the peace I should totally take their word for it. I should totally just believe what the media says as truth from a police department with a sketchy record now. I need to trust the police and government. Yea, it’s so hard to believe it couldn’t possibly be true.

[Californication | 1,490]

4 minutes ago, Gundam00 said:

Yea, I’m so silly. If the police, and city, have a vested interest in keeping the peace I should totally take their word for it. I should totally just believe what the media says as truth from a police department with a sketchy record now. I need to trust the police and government. Yea, it’s so hard to believe it couldn’t possibly be true.

I didn't say anything about police, media, or motives. 

And this is the problem, even a smidgeon of a comment and you guys try and drag us down a rabbit hole of nonsense. 

We are living in two different realities buddy.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Californication

[Estil | 1,265]

2 hours ago, Californication said:

You got fake racism and concrete milkshakes, you guys come up with new stuff so often it is hard to keep up.

Hey, I didn't hear of concrete milkshakes either...though I kinda now wish I hadn't  

[Gundam00 | 6]

8 minutes ago, Californication said:

I didn't say anything about police, media, or motives. 

And this is the problem, even a smidgeon of a comment and you guys try and drag us down a rabbit hole of nonsense. 

We are living in two different realities buddy.

Umm....no. I said...

 

"No. They are properly controlling their weapon, which is their right to do, in protest, which is their right to do as well, to go against what they believe is bad politics by the Government and/or political drama. It does not matter what they have on them as anything can be classified as a weapon. A concrete milkshark, knives and pipes are just as dangerous as a gun against a person if not more so in close quarters(less than 21ft). A person that is willing to bash another person's head in with a concrete milkshake is more dangerous that a person being inert with a gun with no intent to use. There is no difference between that person with the AR or a person carrying concealed other than you don't know they have it. Brandishing is dependent on each State's guidelines of what they is. A gun is just a tool"

I mentioned concrete milkshake as an example of a common item that can be weaponized to do harm and kill. I also mentioned knives and pipes. The whole "antifa was throwing concrete milkshakes" is something that has come up that can be true. It doesn't matter what the weapon is as a weapon is a weapon. Just because these people protested in Michigan with guns doesn't mean a thing. They could have protested with hundreds of concrete milkshakes and shaken them angrily at the officers and fake thrown them...but wait? A concrete milkshake isn't a weapon and you can't threaten with a simple milkshake. Them doing that would have been far more harmful, and probably illegal given that are assaulting people with possibility of death, then marching around with guns without the intent to harm. A gun is weapon and a tool which is only as dangerous as the guy holding it...just like the milkshake or pencil or whatever. Quite a lot of those guns at that rally and not a single person died....been a few like that already. 

The "nonsense" is calling them morons, which is insulting btw, then condemning their lawful actions because it's not liked by some people. It doesn't have to be liked, it's still legal where they live and their right to bear arms is protected. As I said before, You should be concerned that the situation, across the United States, has reached the point they have to protest armed not that they are. 

It's insults and dehumanizing that causes the most harm. It's thinking you are smarter than others, and the other side, that does more harm than good. 

What's also nonsense is your comment. That's racist and I expect you to apologize. Why would you make such a comment? Do you know why many black men are shot by police? Have you watched, in full, how many young black men are shot by police? The situation? Why many young black men are stopped by police? If a group of black men joined those men, and acted just like them, why would they be shot? 

 

 

 

[Estil | 1,265]

51 minutes ago, Gundam00 said:

You mean the media tells the truth and the police force of Portland isn’t controlled by politics? That antifa hasn’t been caught with improvised weapons and weapons? That Portland police hasn’t had leaks from current and former officers about political influence, heavy anti-police mentality, corruption, inability to do their jobs, officers quitting....

 

 Yea, I’m so silly. If the police, and city, have a vested interest in keeping the peace I should totally take their word for it. I should totally just believe what the media says as truth from a police department with a sketchy record now. I need to trust the police and government. Yea, it’s so hard to believe it couldn’t possibly be true.

I honestly am quite uncomfortable with any sort of "hive mind" set.  You know, where you're in a group or something and you're expected to just "awww, c'mon just take our word for it".  I mean I appreciate very much that we live in a modern day and age where we can find out most anything real easy like...but at the same time it also means we end up finding out things we really wish were not true, and shouldn't be true.  

Is this what they mean by ignorance is bliss?

Edited May 3, 2020 by Estil

[Californication | 1,490]

12 minutes ago, Gundam00 said:

 

What's also nonsense is your comment. That's racist and I expect you to apologize. Why would you make such a comment? Do you know why many black men are shot by police? Have you watched, in full, how many young black men are shot by police? The situation? Why many young black men are stopped by police? If a group of black men joined those men, and acted just like them, why would they be shot? 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Californication

[Gundam00 | 6]

2 minutes ago, Estil said:

I honestly am quite uncomfortable with any sort of "hive mind" set.  You know, where you're in a group or something and you're expected to just "awww, c'mon just take our word for it".  I mean I appreciate very much that we live in a modern day and age where we can find out most anything real easy like...but at the same time it also means we end up finding out things we really wish were not true, and shouldn't be true.  

Is this what they mean by ignorance is bliss?

 

I don't support hive mindset or group think on either side. 

But, if it is more advantageous for the government and police to cover up/bury/not investigate something as it will be detrimental if leaked...what do you think they may do? If a whistle blower says "Hey, former/current employee and don't buy their stock as they are probably cooking the books" do you immediately buy stock or look into it? Do you trust the company to investigate it themselves or a third party? Why would you trust the government if the same thing is said about them from inside?

[Estil | 1,265]

That's the trouble, how can you even know for sure who you can trust?  Didn't Jean-Luc Picard once say that in real life villains don't twirl their mustache [or wear black hats or do that evil laugh thing]?  It's often the ones you'd least suspect.

[Gundam00 | 6]

4 minutes ago, Californication said:

 

 

Nice cherry pick. I can do that to. 

Doesn't mean LEOs are racist. It's still under investigation as well. If true, just means that officer could be racist. There are what 900k to 1mil police officers? Being public figures they are just recorded more and in the spotlight. They will be caught more than other professions....which is a good thing no?

Lol, if we are judging the actions of a few to dictate an entire profession to being racists. I'm pretty sure they are some racist dentists, doctors, clerks, store managers, art designers, and etc. Want to go find some dentists being racist so we can dehumanize that entire profession too?

 

 

[Gundam00 | 6]

31 minutes ago, Estil said:

That's the trouble, how can you even know for sure who you can trust?  Didn't Jean-Luc Picard once say that in real life villains don't twirl their mustache [or wear black hats or do that evil laugh thing]?  It's often the ones you'd least suspect.

The problem is evil and good are almost entirely subjective to you and your culture. What is a villain to you is a hero to someone else. There is no answer as long as we have individual or collective mindsets with values systems. Columbus was a hero for generations and now he’s a villain based on shifting value systems.

Trust wise...that’s never been answered. If it was, life would be easier no?

[Estil | 1,265]

12 minutes ago, Gundam00 said:

The problem is evil and good are almost entirely subjective to you and your culture. What is a villain to you is a hero to someone else. There is no answer as long as we have individual or collective mindsets with values systems. Columbus was a hero for generations and now he’s a villain based on shifting value systems.

It was more along the lines we got to know him better...especially his darker side.  Not to mention the fact he wasn't even the first European explorer to reach the area well, does he have any significant virtues left at all?  

And yes, is this like that cliche about terrorist vs freedom fighter?  There was even a Captain Planet episode about just that (7:00 is the terrorist/freedom fighter thing):

The thing is though, by the time this episode aired (November 1992) the South African apartheid was already on its way out for the past three years, so the South Africa nuke/conflict was kinda outdated.  If the eco-villains wanted to really cause trouble, the should've used one of their nukes on India vs Pakistan...and it just so happens Pakistan got their first nuke in 1998 so...   

Edited May 3, 2020 by Estil

[Gundam00 | 6]

21 minutes ago, Estil said:

It was more along the lines we got to know him better...especially his darker side.  Not to mention the fact he wasn't even the first European explorer to reach the area well, does he have any significant virtues left at all?  

And yes, is this like that cliche about terrorist vs freedom fighter?  There was even a Captain Planet episode about just that (7:00 is the terrorist/freedom fighter thing):

The thing is though, by the time this episode aired (November 1992) the South African apartheid was already on its way out for the past three years, so the South Africa nuke/conflict was kinda outdated.  If the eco-villains wanted to really cause trouble, the should've used one of their nukes on India vs Pakistan...and it just so happens Pakistan got their first nuke in 1998 so...   

It’s actually from Ethics by Aristotle. It’s a good read and possibly free? It’s been awhile since I read it and it was on my kindle.

[Kguillemette | 1,547]

6 hours ago, Gundam00 said:

 

 

"No. They are properly controlling their weapon, which is their right to do, in protest, which is their right to do as well, to go against what they believe is bad politics by the Government and/or political drama. It does not matter what they have on them as anything can be classified as a weapon. A concrete milkshark, knives and pipes are just as dangerous as a gun against a person if not more so in close quarters(less than 21ft). A person that is willing to bash another person's head in with a concrete milkshake is more dangerous that a person being inert with a gun with no intent to use. There is no difference between that person with the AR or a person carrying concealed other than you don't know they have it. Brandishing is dependent on each State's guidelines of what they is. A gun is just a tool"

I mentioned concrete milkshake as an example of a common item that can be weaponized to do harm and kill. I also mentioned knives and pipes. The whole "antifa was throwing concrete milkshakes" is something that has come up that can be true. It doesn't matter what the weapon is as a weapon is a weapon. Just because these people protested in Michigan with guns doesn't mean a thing. They could have protested with hundreds of concrete milkshakes and shaken them angrily at the officers and fake thrown them...but wait? A concrete milkshake isn't a weapon and you can't threaten with a simple milkshake. Them doing that would have been far more harmful, and probably illegal given that are assaulting people with possibility of death, then marching around with guns without the intent to harm. A gun is weapon and a tool which is only as dangerous as the guy holding it...just like the milkshake or pencil or whatever. Quite a lot of those guns at that rally and not a single person died....been a few like that already. 

The "nonsense" is calling them morons, which is insulting btw, then condemning their lawful actions because it's not liked by some people. It doesn't have to be liked, it's still legal where they live and their right to bear arms is protected. As I said before, You should be concerned that the situation, across the United States, has reached the point they have to protest armed not that they are. 

It's insults and dehumanizing that causes the most harm. It's thinking you are smarter than others, and the other side, that does more harm than good. 

What's also nonsense is your comment. That's racist and I expect you to apologize. Why would you make such a comment? Do you know why many black men are shot by police? Have you watched, in full, how many young black men are shot by police? The situation? Why many young black men are stopped by police? If a group of black men joined those men, and acted just like them, why would they be shot? 

 

 

 

I have no issues with guns or gun laws. I grew up with guns and understand the power and might behind them. In fact the very first thing I was taught was you never point a weapon at something you do not intend to shoot. This is step 1, 2, and 3 of responsible gun ownership.

But really? Comparing knives and anything you need to throw or swing to a gun is silly. If you are 10 feet away from someone with a knife, bat, club, milkshake, etc. You can always run away. You can't race a gun. This is asinine to argue otherwise.

Bringing race into this is also silly and irrelevant. I have very strong opinions on the matter, but they are completely irrelevant here right now. Californication gave everyone a classic race bait, and it would be unwise to take it.

[Estil | 1,265]

Yes, basic gun safety comes down to three basic rules:

1. Keep any and all firearms and ammo locked and out of reach/access from children and anyone else who does not need to be around them.

2. Always treat any firearm as if its loaded and ready to fire.

3. Never point a firearm at anyone or anything you don't intend to shoot.

[Californication | 1,490]

8 hours ago, Gundam00 said:

 

Nice cherry pick. I can do that to. 

Doesn't mean LEOs are racist. It's still under investigation as well. If true, just means that officer could be racist. There are what 900k to 1mil police officers? Being public figures they are just recorded more and in the spotlight. They will be caught more than other professions....which is a good thing no?

Lol, if we are judging the actions of a few to dictate an entire profession to being racists. I'm pretty sure they are some racist dentists, doctors, clerks, store managers, art designers, and etc. Want to go find some dentists being racist so we can dehumanize that entire profession too?

 

 

Cherry pick? We have decades of data to show the different treatment of minorites compared to whites by the police. This is a national issue in communities across the country. 

I didn't say every police officer is racist. You keep putting words in my mouth. I am saying there are beliefs built in to our society that result in blacks being treated differently across the country by citizens and police.

There is mountains of evidence to show this. I picked this example because it is the most recent one that came to mind. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Californication

[Link | 2,737]

I would like to ask the Michigan protestors their opinion of Colin Kaepernick’s freedom of speech. 

[Estil | 1,265]

57 minutes ago, Link said:

I would like to ask the Michigan protestors their opinion of Colin Kaepernick’s freedom of speech. 

Don't even get me started on that opportunistic Krapernick...