Game Debate #160: Mega Man 2

[PII | 1,890]

There's not a whole lot in the way of legit criticism to offer this game.

Slightly over-powered metal blade

Multiple Routes would have been a good inclusion to pump up its replay value a little more, not that it doesn't have plenty as is...

I've heard some point out questionable level design and the existence of numerous glitches as faults, but even if that's the case, I'd personally count those qualities as strengths...

 

[JamesRobot | 5,810]

54 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

We need a vote you silly man

Go ahead and put @Murray down for a 10.  He's good for it.

 

[Sumez | 2,982]

2 hours ago, PII said:

I've heard some point out questionable level design and the existence of numerous glitches as faults, but even if that's the case, I'd personally count those qualities as strengths...

Wily 4 and its boss fight? A strength? 

[JamesRobot | 5,810]

29 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Wily 4 and its boss fight? A strength? 

I really dig that fight.  Totally unique.  Yeah you can screw it up but it's not game breaking or anything.

[JeremiahJT | 75]

Not as good as the first one, but better than all the other sequels. I gave it an 8.

[PII | 1,890]

18 minutes ago, Sumez said:

2 hours ago, PII said:

I've heard some point out questionable level design and the existence of numerous glitches as faults, but even if that's the case, I'd personally count those qualities as strengths...

Wily 4 and its boss fight? A strength? 

It was intended as a general statement with room for exception rather than an all encompassing blanket statement.

I presume you're referring to this trap room being far too easy, which I suppose it is, but in it's defense, at least it adds a little variety plus it adds to the increasingly labyrinthine quality of the final levels.  The level proper on the other hand seems somewhat curiously unfinished so I'd have to say you're correct on that point, although it could also have been the designers intent to simply ease off the difficulty for a minute giving every 8-year-old a moment to breath...  since the rest of the game is certainly not what anyone would call unfinished. 

By "poor level design" I was referring more to areas that are abnormally awkward to get through making for (in my opinion) the most fun to play once practice has yielded some workable result whether that result be getting through with a minimum of damage or as quickly as possible etc.  At any rate it's a good reason not to give the game a perfect 10.  I guess the issue here was precisely what one means when they say: "poor level design."

[G-type | 2,488]

5 hours ago, AirVillain said:

Shoutout to Video and Arcade Top 10 for stealing Crash Man's music. 

 

gotta love these kinds of shows. The kids look so terrified giving their shout-outs.

[AirVillain | 490]

14 hours ago, G-type said:

gotta love these kinds of shows. The kids look so terrified giving their shout-outs.

Haha, yeah. 

I'm sure I'd be terrified if I was 12 too. 

[AirVillain | 490]

16 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

I really dig that fight.  Totally unique.  Yeah you can screw it up but it's not game breaking or anything.

I love/hate this stage.

I love it now but when I was a kid I hated it because it was pretty tricky. 

Miss one crash bomb and you're fucked  As a child it felt game breaking, but the start of that stage you can just farm for power I think.... spring guys falling from the ceiling? 

Either way.... always annoying to have to go back, so was so satisfying to actually beat that stage on the first go. 

[Sumez | 2,982]

5 minutes ago, AirVillain said:

As a child it felt game breaking, but the start of that stage you can just farm for power I think.... spring guys falling from the ceiling?

Honestly that's the worst part of the whole thing. Run out of ammo on the boss and you'll be forced to intentionally kill off Mega Man, and then spend an eternity farming for additional subweapon ammo at the last checkpoint. You could just "not screw it up", but if you do anyway, you'll either turn off the game or be stuck farming.
People complain about getting sent back to the start of the stage at the final boss in Ninja Gaiden, but this is a similar situation that's essentially much worse because the equivalent "walk of shame" in MM2's case is just a tedious and horrible grind, while NG1 will give you the consolation prize of a much easier fight on your return.

The idea of the boss is cool I think, but the execution is a mess. There's really no defending this. I think all the NES Mega Man games are great, but even single clear mistakes such as this is enough to place MM2 squarely below the better ones I think.

[AirVillain | 490]

28 minutes ago, Sumez said:

The idea of the boss is cool I think, but the execution is a mess. There's really no defending this. I think all the NES Mega Man games are great, but even single clear mistakes such as this is enough to place MM2 squarely below the better ones I think.

In all seriousness, though... what are we talking about?  

Did you just say that this (one single) boss is the reason why Mega Man 2 (The entire game) is NOT AS GOOD as the others in the series???



It's tricky, but as discussed... it's not even CLOSE to game breaking. And it's NOTHING like Ninja Gaiden.... 

If you die, you start the level over and grab some energy on the way. There's like 100 spring guys that you have to pass anyways, so you just hang there for a minute to get the power. The game is literally designed for it...? 

Then try again.... it's a "different" style of boss but that's what makes it interesting. You need to actually think it through instead of just blasting away, yet STILL use Mega Man's special abilities. 

It's actually a GREAT boss for a Mega Man game. It makes Mega Man 2 BETTER because it helps "mix up" the gameplay. 

[Sumez | 2,982]

2 hours ago, AirVillain said:

Did you just say that this (one single) boss is the reason why Mega Man 2 (The entire game) is NOT AS GOOD as the others in the series???

No but its a good reason why it's not as good as 3 or 4 in my book

The games are so close in quality already that it's the difference between a flawless game or a nearly flawless game. 

[JamesRobot | 5,810]

As a kid, I was terrible at Mega Man 2.  I didn't own the game so I didn't get a ton of opportunity to get any better.  But I would always want to play it when I went over to my buddy's house.  I rode his coat tales the entire way through the game.  I couldn't beat Metal Man.  I couldn't navigate the dissapearing blocks.  I couldn't get through the Quick Man lasers.  I would succumb to the floating heads in Air Man's level every time.  I couldn't defeat the Wily fortress dragon boss.  Yet, I was absolutely enamored with the game.

Ever-so-gradually, I improved to the point that I could defeat Metal Man and spam my way through much of the standard levels and felt like I was finally decent at the game.  Then we moved in '92, and I didn't return to Mega Man 2 until I actively started collecting NES in highschool and picked up a copy of 2 and 3 at five bucks a pop.  I finally got gud and was able to cruise through most of the game and ended up with my first no-death in 1997 (on normal mode).  These days, I frequently 1LC on difficult without the need to spam Metal Blades through the entire game (even though it's so fun to do so).  I came in 2nd in last year's Weekly NES Contest speedrun only to be beaten by @PII (not that I'm bitter or anything).

This game is honestly the top of the heap.  The best of the best.  The GOAT.  If I had just one game to play on a desert island for the rest of my days, Megaman 2 is it with complete satisfaction.  If everyone were allowed to give an 11 rating to just one game, this is it.  My all-time favorite game.  

[PII | 1,890]

5 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

If I had just on game to play on a desert island for the rest of my days, Megaman 2 is it with complete satisfaction. 

Pretty sure I started a thread for this, once upon a time!

https://www.videogamesage.com/forums/topic/4735-best-bang-for-buck-replay-value-game-youd-take-to-a-desert-island-for-the-rest-of-your-life-while-tooting-your-ganja-in-the-hood/

 

Also, if there's ever another Megaman Competition around here, I'd better watch out.  Something tells me James Robot could turn into Mecha-Robo-James or some reasonable facsimile  ...seeking his revenge...

[JamesRobot | 5,810]

1 hour ago, PII said:

 ...seeking his revenge...

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

A solid 5.  It's technically sound, but far from my cup of tea.  I did put enough time into it to add it to my beaten list, and it wasn't a terrible run, but I'll likely never play it again.

[JamesRobot | 5,810]

Just now, the_wizard_666 said:

A solid 5. 

You're throwing off the curve! 

[koifish | 557]

Not my choice for best platform game series, but even if I don't super care for it, everyone should play mega man 2 at least once. And I'm someone who regularly rallies against being a brainless list obsessive who asserts "must plays" or who treats games like they're some "1001 best games to check off your to-do list to be a REAL gamer expert like your favorite youtube eCeleb fart huffer!" or who thinks they have to have played and loved everything on some crappy website's definition of "the best games ever". I think those kinds of things are absolute bullshit, and yet I cannot say that there is a reason to not play MegaMan 2 at least once. It's overall too solid, and really just timeless. 9/10, very good and no reason to really hate it, beyond making some contrarian clickbait video to farm hateclicks off of easily manipulated angry nerds.

Also it can't be a 10/10 because that crash bomb boss in Wily Castle is just stupid.

 

[PII | 1,890]

1 hour ago, koifish said:

like your favorite youtube eCeleb fart huffer!"

Ahh lol !  That one got me good !!  Wham!  Right in the funny bone!

[Reed Rothchild | 9,563]

2 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

You're throwing off the curve! 

 

[TheGameDisplay | 55]

On 6/28/2023 at 11:44 AM, MegaMan52 said:

Oh yeah, I remember that show. Still have an episode that I recorded on VHS in 2000 or so: 

I was actually on this show a few times. Used to be a fun yearly tradition to look forward to. We always called the opening music the Crash Man theme.

As for Mega Man 2, it's awesome. You can feel the love put into it. Mega Man 3 had some cool ideas, but was ultimately rushed. I actually like the Doc Robot levels, and wish something like that would have come back in later Mega Man games. But Wily's Castle is a mess. 

I also prefer the soundtrack in MM2 more. Each and every level has a track that hits hard, and gets you into the jumpin' and shootin' mood. Mega Man 3's soundtrack, while good, is more laid back and doesn't get me as pumped.

Weapon-wise I also like MM2 more. Not to mention I'll take Items 1-3 over Rush any day.

Overall they're both great games and everyone should play them!

[AverageOliver98 | 719]

7/10
I think Mega Man 2 is a great NES game, but when up against the other NES Mega Mans, its only above the first and maybe 4 (I gotta play them both again to truly determine it). The main reason being that (recently, oddly enough) it hurts my eyes - the BG flashes white for every hit on most Wily Castle bosses, plus the duration of their death animations (it does happen in the other NES games, but I think its at its worst here). Other complaints would be the final boss that can only be defeated one weapon while the rest (including the regular buster/default) HEAL IT, Time Stopper forcing you to use all the ammo until it runs dry (does changeing screens stop it?), the glitchiest block puzzle in any mainline Mega Man title (MM9 uses a fixed verson in Endless Mode), and it feels too much like MM1 when it comes to how the controls feel (a bit too heavy).

Those problems/nitpicks aside, it still is a great time... honestly most classic Mega Man games are.

[Link | 2,716]

9 hours ago, AverageOliver98 said:

Time Stopper forcing you to use all the ammo until it runs dry (does changeing screens stop it?)

No. You can see this if you use it to bypass the giant lasers in Quickman stage. And I think that's why they chose at the time to do it that way. 

[Kguillemette | 1,547]

2 hours ago, Link said:

No. You can see this if you use it to bypass the giant lasers in Quickman stage. And I think that's why they chose at the time to do it that way. 

This is my opinion an example of amazing game design. You can through sheer force of will and memorization do quick man's lasers, or you can use in game shortcuts to bypass the hard parts that an inexperienced gamer may find "unfun". There are many different was to approach the game, and none are wrong. I feel almost everyone will find fun here.

[Link | 2,716]

1 hour ago, Kguillemette said:

This is my opinion an example of amazing game design. You can through sheer force of will and memorization do quick man's lasers, or you can use in game shortcuts to bypass the hard parts that an inexperienced gamer may find "unfun". There are many different was to approach the game, and none are wrong. I feel almost everyone will find fun here.

Yeah, I agree. I can still go through the lasers easy and fun, but a lot of people are frustrated by them. I can't do the disappearing blocks in Heatman any more. Probably could if I would put the patience and practice in like I did back in the day, but these days I just zip by with Item-2.