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Movies Gloves Has Actually Seen Debate #2: Phantom of the Paradise

Gloves

By Gloves
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I've seen it, have you?   

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  1. 1. You've...

    • Seen it, loved it
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    • Seen it, liked it
      4
    • Seen it... *meh*
      0
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      0
    • Seen it, hated it
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    • Never seen it, gonna
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Gloves

Gloves | 11,847

Administrator · Posted
Posted

image.png

 

 

Its got that chick that sings in all those movies from the 70s! 

I went to start this thread the other day, and searching for the trailer I found that the whole movie is on YouTube for free, so I watched the whole movie instead by mistake. 

It's no Rocky Horror, nor Shock Treatment, in fact I'd say basically none of the songs actually stuck with me which is maybe not awesome for a musical dramedy, but I'm always so oddly enthralled by this movie. 

On the plus side, I've actually seen it! So... There ya go! 

 

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Bearcat-Doug
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Tabonga
Tabonga

Seen it liked it - I voted a bit higher since Mrs. Tabonga really really liked it - so 1/2 my vote and 1/2 a posthumous vote for her.

Reed Rothchild
Reed Rothchild

Love, love, love this movie.  I'm a big DePalma guy.  Even read The Devil's Candy.

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Tabonga

Tabonga | 2,353

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

I've avoided it til now and that probably won't change.  Looks like a low rent Rocky Horror Picture Show.  Which was already kinda low rent.  I just don't dig on musicals in general.  There's an occasional exception but this does not appear to be one of them.

It is not that bad - just a much different (less outre) form of camp.  IMHO the two aren't  terribly comparable - they were made for different audiences - although a lot of people will enjoy both.  And a paradoy of Phantom of the Opera almost necessitates some music lurking about somewhere........

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Reed Rothchild

Reed Rothchild | 9,599

Editorials Team · Posted
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41 minutes ago, AirVillain said:

Wow... just melted my brain a little bit. 

Never heard of this. 

It seems to basically be the "Space Balls"/"Scary Movie" for Rocky Horror/Grease/Phantom of The Opera....??? 

I love Rocky Horror and Grease... so I'm not sure how I feel about this. 🤔

It's not a "spoof" like those movies.  It's a rock and roll take on Phantom of the Opera.

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AirVillain

AirVillain | 491

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On 4/25/2023 at 11:51 AM, Reed Rothchild said:

It's not a "spoof" like those movies.  It's a rock and roll take on Phantom of the Opera.

....seems pretty spoofy.

If it was only a rock and roll take on the Phantom of the Opera then there wouldn't be other musicals referenced...? As in Grease or Rocky Horror? 

Rocky Horror seems to be just as influential on this, if not the most, as Phantom of The Opera. 

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Reed Rothchild

Reed Rothchild | 9,599

Editorials Team · Posted
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5 minutes ago, AirVillain said:

....seems pretty spoofy.

If it was only a rock and roll take on the Phantom of the Opera then there wouldn't be other musicals referenced...? As in Grease or Rocky Horror? 

Rocky Horror seems to be just as influential on this, if not the most, as Phantom of The Opera. 

I'm not sure what you're saying.  What is being referenced?  Those are all rock musicals.  In addition to stuff like Hair.  I suppose both Phantom and Rocky Horror are both pretty "wild" and "zany."

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AirVillain

AirVillain | 491

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40 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I'm not sure what you're saying.  What is being referenced?  Those are all rock musicals.  In addition to stuff like Hair.  I suppose both Phantom and Rocky Horror are both pretty "wild" and "zany."

Right... so MORE musicals like Hair are referenced. 

So it's almost as if this Phantom of the Paradise is making a light humorous parody of said musicals.... 🤔

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Reed Rothchild

Reed Rothchild | 9,599

Editorials Team · Posted
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17 minutes ago, AirVillain said:

Right... so MORE musicals like Hair are referenced. 

So it's almost as if this Phantom of the Paradise is making a light humorous parody of said musicals.... 🤔

wut

I was saying it was a popular formula at the time.  Rock + 70s-doing-the-50s pastiche + Broadway

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AirVillain

AirVillain | 491

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12 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

wut

I was saying it was a popular formula at the time.  Rock + 70s-doing-the-50s pastiche + Broadway

I'm surprised how you can't see the connection here. 

Rocky Horror/Grease/Phantom were created as "serious" musicals (serious meaning the writers specifically wrote them for each genre as a legitimate musical)  each with their own unique feel. 

This movie... takes elements of each of those to create a light humorous parody of them.

That is literally the definition of a "spoof".

I'm not taking shots at your cinematic masterpiece, man... that's just what it is. 

The character "Beef" is a rip on Frank N Furter/Rocky.... clearly? 

Does the film start with a narrator? Like Rocky Horror... Hmmmm.... 🤔

I mean, I don't know.... apparently Vincent Camby of the New York Times thought so to? 

Vincent Canby of The New York Times wrote that the film attempted to parody "Faust, The Phantom of the Opera, The Picture of Dorian Gray, rock music, the rock music industry, rock music movies and horror movies.

Gene Siskel apparently also said " Gene Siskel of the Chicago Tribune gave the film two stars out of four, writing that "what's up on the screen is childish; it has meaning only because it points to something else. To put it another way, joking about the rock music scene is treacherous, because the rock music scene itself is a joke."[13]

And wikipedia is always right!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_the_Paradise

 

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Reed Rothchild

Reed Rothchild | 9,599

Editorials Team · Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AirVillain said:

I'm surprised how you can't see the connection here. 

Rocky Horror/Grease/Phantom were created as "serious" musicals (serious meaning the writers specifically wrote them for each genre as a legitimate musical)  each with their own unique feel. 

This movie... takes elements of each of those to create a light humorous parody of them.

That is literally the definition of a "spoof".

I'm not taking shots at your cinematic masterpiece, man... that's just what it is. 

The character "Beef" is a rip on Frank N Furter/Rocky.... clearly? 

Does the film start with a narrator? Like Rocky Horror... Hmmmm.... 🤔

I mean, I don't know.... apparently Vincent Camby of the New York Times thought so to? 

Vincent Canby of The New York Times wrote that the film attempted to parody "Faust, The Phantom of the Opera, The Picture of Dorian Gray, rock music, the rock music industry, rock music movies and horror movies.

Gene Siskel apparently also said " Gene Siskel of the Chicago Tribune gave the film two stars out of four, writing that "what's up on the screen is childish; it has meaning only because it points to something else. To put it another way, joking about the rock music scene is treacherous, because the rock music scene itself is a joke."[13]

And wikipedia is always right!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_the_Paradise

 

For the record, I love Rocky Horror and consider it the superior film.

It's also very clear that De Palma was at least partially inspired by the Broadway play (this movie predates the Rocky Horror film).  Again, "1970s-doing-the-1950s rock and roll" was a hot thing at the time.  See Meatloaf doing his biker greaser number "Rock n Roll Hot Patootie", and Phantom doing the opening greaser doo wop number.  Lots of similarities.

But no, I do not agree that this is a spoof of Rocky Horror.  That doesn't even make sense.  That's like saying Friday the 13th is a spoof of Halloween.  But you seem determined to make that case, even though you haven't actually seen the former.  Very curious.

It is interesting to me that you've proactively decided to hold this movie in contempt though.  You are allowed to like both things, without pitting them against each other.  Just saying.

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Reed Rothchild

Reed Rothchild | 9,599

Editorials Team · Posted
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1 hour ago, AirVillain said:

Gene Siskel apparently also said " Gene Siskel of the Chicago Tribune gave the film two stars out of four [...] joking about the rock music scene is treacherous, because the rock music scene itself is a joke."[13]

Side note, wow, that one aged like milk! Imagine deriding the early 1970s rock scene as some sort of low point in the genre. 

Nice job Gene! 🤣

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AirVillain

AirVillain | 491

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

For the record, I love Rocky Horror and consider it the superior film.

It's also very clear that De Palma was at least partially inspired by the Broadway play (this movie predates the Rocky Horror film).  Again, "1970s-doing-the-1950s rock and roll" was a hot thing at the time.  See Meatloaf doing his biker greaser number "Rock n Roll Hot Patootie", and Phantom doing the opening greaser doo wop number.  Lots of similarities.

But no, I do not agree that this is a spoof of Rocky Horror.  That doesn't even make sense.  That's like saying Friday the 13th is a spoof of Halloween.  But you seem determined to make that case, even though you haven't actually seen the former.  Very curious.

It is interesting to me that you've proactively decided to hold this movie in contempt though.  You are allowed to like both things, without pitting them against each other.  Just saying.


Perhaps the term "spoof" is a bit too harsh. But admitting there's similarities and it was partially inspired by Rocky is something?

And I guess we don't trust film critic Vincent Camby... 

Well... Friday the 13th was a rip-off with different characters. 

This is an "homage" with characters that are similar which seem to be making good natured fun of Rocky/Phantom/some other book. 🤔

I'm not holding this movie in contempt, I'm just pointing out how it seems from the trailer, which was backed up in my further "research" (wikipedia article). 

Jeez, I guess I gotta watch it now. It's on the list so once i figure out how to watch it... I guess I'll bump it up the list!  😆

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