New Paper Mario!

[Sumez | 2,950]

On 7/18/2020 at 6:09 AM, Skorp said:

So far, it is much better than Super Paper Mario

 

On 7/20/2020 at 10:51 PM, Skorp said:

Yep, after a little over an hour I just couldn't play it anymore. Not for me.

So which one is it

[AstralSoul | 502]

I had pretty low expectations of this game given how mediocre the last two games were. Okay, I actually liked Color Splash, but it wasn't great and certainly not the Paper Mario we all wanted. But this game I find is really growing on me. I was very "meh" about it at first, as it feels like it's missing something the first two games had that made them special. I can't exactly say what it is. I know the game lacks a true partner system and an experience system but I don't think that's what it is. It just feels like it's missing one or two things that end up holding it back from greatness.

I estimate I'm about halfway done with the game, and at first I did not like the combat. I found it tedious and annoying and there is almost no incentive to even battle given the lack of experience. Once I got the first boss the battle system just clicked for me. It's really grown on me and while I'd still rather have a traditional battle system with partners and experience, this system is pretty good. Outside of the combat though, the game is super charming and fun. I am really enjoying the lighthearted story, the characters, the environments, and music. Certainly better than Super Paper Mario, Sticker Star and Color Splash, but still one notch shy of the amazing games that were Paper Mario and Thousand Year Door.

[Link | 2,709]

REVIEW: PAPER MARIO: THE ORIGAMI KING IS MUCH BETTER, BUT NO THOUSAND YEAR DOOR - Jul 21, 2020 - Angelo M. D'Argenio

[Nintegageo | 582]

Yeah, so I am approx. 1/2 done and the game is somewhat losing steam with me. I think I am just so angry (video game angry, not the real angry) with regards to the no exp/level. What an absolutely stupid decision; to do that in a game with battles - whether they be traditional or the puzzles that we see in this game. I know how ridiculous that this sounds but just changing that one thing would have made an okay game into a great one. The visuals and presentation are amazing, props to those aspects.

[drxandy | 3,225]

Great writing, cute graphics, way too easy

That's what I'm gleaning from the internet and playing it for a couple hours so far. 

[Link | 2,709]

Another review

‘Paper Mario: The Origami King’ review: Not quite an RPG, but a classic Mario adventure July 21, NME

Battle is the main thing I care about, and it sounds too easy and pointless. I think I’ll pass on this one. I was excited for it. Disappointing.

[Skorp | 383]

On 7/22/2020 at 3:55 AM, Sumez said:

 

So which one is it

Lol yeah I meant to say it's at least a step in the direction of being better than Super Paper Mario as that one was just a complete mess for everything, but it still wasn't good. So Super Paper Mario < Paper Mario Orgami. Like the AVGN would say the newest game is just shit but the other one is a piling steam of shit. Both are bad but one is much worse than the other. It's a matter of opinion for sure as a lot of people love the new Paper Mario mostly first timers to it.

[Sumez | 2,950]

Super Paper Mario was absolutely brilliant  

[Sumez | 2,950]

I'm around 10 hours into Origami King, and uh. I'm absolutely loving it. It's brilliant. It's one of the most cozy, charming, and amusing video game experiences I've had in a long while. The characters are great, and the dialogue is subtly hilarious. I find myself chuckling loudly all the time.

The "core" of the game is just walking around exploring the areas looking for hidden toads and other treasures, and patching up the landscape, and it's surprisingly satisfying considering how creative the game constantly is.

Initially the game kind of annoyed me, in how it strictly led you through a tight corridor of doing very specific things, constantly interrupting you to tell you how to do something you probably would have figured out if you were given even one second to think about it on your own (basically, think Skyward Sword). Combat initially is laughable simple, pretty much giving you the solutions to the puzzles at the start of each round.
But once you get a couple of areas into the game, you're suddenly given free reign and your "Navi" finally starts to shut up (outside of exposition and charactarization dialogue, which remains adorable and welcome). Enemies start making up tougher patterns that'll make you actually wrestle with the time limit given to line them up correctly, and at one point you're even given multiple different areas that you can go and explore at your own leisure, feeling like a "real RPG"!

Despite not being the "traditional RPG combat" that a lot of fans probably hoped for, I still think going with turn based battles in 2020 is delightfully bold, especially of this kind that whisks you away into a separate screen like old school Final Fantasy games (though the combat arena with all the toads that you rescue, lining the audience seats that start out empty early on, is absolutely adorable!).
The puzzle aspect to said combat is incredibly satisfying, too. Some times you get really obvious patterns, but occasionally it's super puzzling despite the simple mechanics, and I feel like there's a solid "Tetris Attack"-like dedicated block moving puzzle game hidden in there. You very rarely get the same patterns twice, so there's always something to react to.

I still have yet to play the GameCube game, and I've burned out on the N64 one three times now, never managing to get far in it. So whatever the game is missing from its predecessors, isn't really affecting me. I will say, though, that compared to Super Paper Mario, it does lack the extreme absurdity and relentless self-deprecating humor of that game. But that doesn't mean it's not both funny and extremely likable. It's really impossible for me to put down right now.

It is really too bad the game kind of deflated shortly after its release, probably due to it not being the second coming of The Thousand Year Door that fans had hoped for, and mostly middling review scores (generally high, but low for a Mario game).
I wonder if this one will go down in history as a bit of an underrated gem, or just the next one in a line of "disappointing" Paper Mario sequels alongside Sticker Star and Color Splash.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Sumez

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

@Sumez, what you say about the combat is sort of what I was hoping to hear.   At first glance in the trailer, I wasn' sure what to think.  It looked super simple, but it also looked like a very early battle which is probably deliberately easy  because it was a tutorial.  As long as the battles become more difficult later on and require some type of strategy, I think there is a good chance I will enjoy it.  I'm one of the big fans of PM and TTYD, but I also enjoyed Super PM.  I want to play this game,  but I don't really want to pay full price for it.  I will keep an eye out for a sale.

[Sumez | 2,950]

I'm not sure you could say the battles really require strategy. It would be wrong to compare them to traditional turn based RPG combat. They are puzzles first and foremost, but I'll say they are definitely involving and entertaining.

The tactical aspect comes mostly from do you think you can kill this group of enemies in one attack or should you expend one of your semi-consumable weapons to beat them immediately. That part is really not good, but I'm enjoying the part where you move the enemies around to group them. Some of them also like to throw wrenches into the system, such as ghosts that turn invisible, and you have to remember where they are.

[Deadeye | 1,596]

@Sumez I appreciated your perspective on this game.  I passed on it after the initial review videos came out, but decided to give it a chance and ordered a copy after reading your thoughts on it.

[Sumez | 2,950]

Hope I'm not letting you down then.  

[Sumez | 2,950]

Finished the game, and I loved it till the end. The final boss was a letdown compared to every other boss in the game, which are generally really awesome, but I think that's the only letdown of the whole experience.
On the other hand, the final dungeon music is the most final dungeon music I've ever heard.

I guess I can see how the battles might not be great if you don't enjoy puzzles, but on the other hand the battle system in the original Paper Mario definitely isn't anything interesting, so I can see why Nintendo are trying to shake things up. I think it had its issues - it can get a little repetitive, and the weapon system was really dumb (it's basically "do you think you might need a little extra power to defeat these dudes in one turn, then use up a bit of this degradeable weapon of which you can buy a ton more anyway"), but overall it was a super fun idea that worked well most of the time.

I'm playing TTYD now because I can't get enough. Have had that game lying around long enough.
And I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. I'm afraid its legacy might have put it on a higher pedestal than it can really carry, but we'll see how things evolve...

Edited September 21, 2020 by Sumez

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

On 9/14/2020 at 10:20 AM, TDIRunner said:

@Sumez, what you say about the combat is sort of what I was hoping to hear.   At first glance in the trailer, I wasn' sure what to think.  It looked super simple, but it also looked like a very early battle which is probably deliberately easy  because it was a tutorial.  As long as the battles become more difficult later on and require some type of strategy, I think there is a good chance I will enjoy it.  I'm one of the big fans of PM and TTYD, but I also enjoyed Super PM.  I want to play this game,  but I don't really want to pay full price for it.  I will keep an eye out for a sale.

 

On 9/15/2020 at 2:09 AM, Sumez said:

I'm not sure you could say the battles really require strategy. It would be wrong to compare them to traditional turn based RPG combat. They are puzzles first and foremost, but I'll say they are definitely involving and entertaining.

The tactical aspect comes mostly from do you think you can kill this group of enemies in one attack or should you expend one of your semi-consumable weapons to beat them immediately. That part is really not good, but I'm enjoying the part where you move the enemies around to group them. Some of them also like to throw wrenches into the system, such as ghosts that turn invisible, and you have to remember where they are.

 

On 9/15/2020 at 9:22 AM, Deadeye said:

@Sumez I appreciated your perspective on this game.  I passed on it after the initial review videos came out, but decided to give it a chance and ordered a copy after reading your thoughts on it.

I have to respectively disagree and offer an alternative viewpoint.

First, the good: The story is entertaining, the graphics and animation are colorful & inventive, the writing is consistently excellent and funny, and the overall atmosphere is fantastic. 

Now the bad: The combat is UNBELIEVABLY BAD. It starts out bad and continues to be bad for the entirety of the game. Each battle is a puzzle in only the loosest sense of the word and there is zero satisfaction and minimal reward for "solving" them correctly. The bosses switch the formula up a bit, but not enough to make them interesting or challenging either. Most players will probably just avoid combat at all costs.  In fact, this is the only "RPG" in my 30-year gaming history where I avoided every encounter I possibly could because the battle system is so tedious. Thankfully, there is no penalty for skipping encounters since there is no experience system and the only reward for combat is a few coins, which can be used to buy some semi-useful upgrades.

I think Nintendo realized early on that the combat is the worst part of the game, so they intentionally made 75% of the battles skippable. They were also smart to give Mario a hammer to use on the overworld. This allows for some action RPG segments which supplement the standard combat. These sections are clunky, but significantly more enjoyable than standard battles.

If this game had run-of-the-mill turn-based combat, it easily be an 8/10 or 9/10 for me. As is, it's closer to a 6/10, only salvaged by the clever writing and fantastic visuals.

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by DoctorEncore

[Deadeye | 1,596]

@DoctorEncore don't do this to me , I have the game sitting on my desk unopened

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

2 hours ago, Deadeye said:

@DoctorEncore don't do this to me , I have the game sitting on my desk unopened

Sorry!

Maybe you'll love the combat? Maybe?

In its defense, it is at least 100 times better than Sticker Star.

Edited September 21, 2020 by DoctorEncore

[Sumez | 2,950]

9 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

If this game had run-of-the-mill turn-based combat, it easily be an 8/10 or 9/10 for me. As is, it's closer to a 6/10, only salvaged by the clever writing and fantastic visuals.

I love turn-based combat if there's an actual tactical element to it, but if it had Paper Mario 1 style simplified command battles, the encounters would have been a lot more tedious and then you'd have me skipping 75% of them.

As the game is, the fights you run into are mostly interesting. The puzzles are involving, and the consequences of failing them are bad enough that solving them feels super satisfying, especially when you run into some of the real headscratchers later on.
I only avoided combat when returning to previous areas just making my way through... same as in the old games.

The only thing I don't like about the combat is the weapon system, and I wish the different enemies would shake things up a lot more. As it was it was mostly just a question of matching the right weapon with the right enemy (the old Paper Mario games did the same though). Stuff like the Boos going invisible to challenge your memory etc. was a fun idea.

The game is a very clear 9/10 to me, one of the best things I've played in a long time.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Sumez

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

6 hours ago, Sumez said:

I love turn-based combat if there's an actual tactical element to it, but if it had Paper Mario 1 style simplified command battles, the encounters would have been a lot more tedious and then you'd have me skipping 75% of them.

As the game is, the fights you run into are mostly interesting. The puzzles are involving, and the consequences of failing them are bad enough that solving them feels super satisfying, especially when you run into some of the real headscratchers later on.
I only avoided combat when returning to previous areas just making my way through... same as in the old games.

The only thing I don't like about the combat is the weapon system, and I wish the different enemies would shake things up a lot more. As it was it was mostly just a question of matching the right weapon with the right enemy (the old Paper Mario games did the same though). Stuff like the Boos going invisible to challenge your memory etc. was a fun idea.

The game is a very clear 9/10 to me, one of the best things I've played in a long time.

I'm glad you were able to get so much joy out of the game, but I just really despise the battle system. It truly detracts from the game for me.

[Sumer | 221]

I still haven’t gotten into the Paper Mario series, but have this game on my Amazon Want List.

I have a copy of Thousand Year Door that has been collecting dust for 15 years.  Is that considered one of the better Paper Marios?

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

9 minutes ago, Sumer said:

I still haven’t gotten into the Paper Mario series, but have this game on my Amazon Want List.

I have a copy of Thousand Year Door that has been collecting dust for 15 years.  Is that considered one of the better Paper Marios?

I haven't played TTYD, but it seems to be quite beloved.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 hour ago, Sumer said:

I still haven’t gotten into the Paper Mario series, but have this game on my Amazon Want List.

I have a copy of Thousand Year Door that has been collecting dust for 15 years.  Is that considered one of the better Paper Marios?

Thousand Year Door is the definitive game in the series.

The N64 game feels like a crude prototype by comparison.

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

23 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

 

 

At the end of the day, I know I'm going to eventually get the game.  I own every other Paper Mario game, so why shouldn't I get this one?  I will eventually try it out.  The good news is I will go into it knowing it's not another TTYD.  So maybe I won't hate it because my expectations won't be that high.

Edited September 22, 2020 by TDIRunner

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

2 hours ago, TDIRunner said:

At the end of the day, I know I'm going to eventually get the game.  I own every other Paper Mario game, so why shouldn't I get this one.  I will eventually try it out.  The good news is I will go into it knowing it's not another TTYD.  So may be I won't hate it because my expectations won't be that high.

Yeah, that's probably the best way to approach it. Overall, I still think it's a solid game and a fun experience and I don't regret playing. It just feels like there was so much wasted potential. Nintendo's insistence that each new Paper Mario needs to "bring something completely new" to the combat experience has really hurt them.

[themisfit138 | 523]

@DoctorEncoreyour review is dead on.

I just passed the first boss and working my way up the tower to the red ribbon. Even after just the first few I have avoided as many battles as I can. I do enjoy the exploration of the worlds though.