The Spreading (And Potentially Deadly) Coronavirus Epidemic....

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

5 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Any of the cases recently in Taiwan have been because of dumbo business tycoons going abroad to do business. Money, Joseph , follow the money hahahaha

Do y'all have shooting ranges out there :V

If so, then I'll be as soon as I can get my passport.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

Here's a nice aminated graphic of the state by state break down since the first case in the US March 13 to present. 

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1632510/?utm_source=showcase&utm_campaign=visualisation/1632510

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by RegularGuyGamer

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

That’s a great graphic

[ICrappedMyPants | 302]

I find it pathetic that the Republicans are finally supporting wearing masks. These jerks have been fighting it for months and now realize that we should be wearing masks. I was looking for a mask during the first week of March when I had to take a business trip to Newark. I’m tired of so-called freedom fighters fighting common sense actions. I’m all for opening up the economy and letting people work for their livelihoods. However, some things/establishments are luxuries and I don’t support people crowding places, without masks. 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

10 minutes ago, ICrappedMyPants said:

I find it pathetic that the Republicans are finally supporting wearing masks. These jerks have been fighting it for months and now realize that we should be wearing masks. I was looking for a mask during the first week of March when I had to take a business trip to Newark. I’m tired of so-called freedom fighters fighting common sense actions. I’m all for opening up the economy and letting people work for their livelihoods. However, some things/establishments are luxuries and I don’t support people crowding places, without masks. 

I was looking for masks back in February while visiting my family over the Chinese New Year holiday. Back then, no one was supporting wearing masks, (despite Taiwanese doctors stating the opposite), since the WHO decided to kowtow to China in part due to Tedros benefiting from China's belt and road initiative.

That's what I find pathetic. Everyone tries to pass the blame onto the Republicans or Trump or whomever yet the blame lies entirely on the WHO, Tedros , and China. If people would pull their heads out of their asses and take a look internationally for once, maybe they'd see this. Hong Kong situation is the classic example, we're wasting our energy protesting a guy that didn't comply with police because he was high on meth, while China is taking away Hong Kong's autonomy, and using the BLM movement as a propoganda piece to suit their own means.

Wash your hands, wear masks, sanitize, social distance. My doctor friend called it , way back in February, and the same rules hold true now. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by fcgamer

[ICrappedMyPants | 302]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

I was looking for masks back in February while visiting my family over the Chinese New Year holiday. Back then, no one was supporting wearing masks, despite Taiwanese doctors stating the opposite, since the WHO decided to kowtow to China in part due to Tedros benefiting from China's belt and road initiative.

That's what I find pathetic. Everyone tries to pass the blame onto the Republicans or Trump or whomever yet the blame lies entirely on the WHO, Tedros , and China. If people would pull their heads out if their asses and take a look internationally for once, maybe they'd see this. Hong Kong situation us the classic example, we're wasting our energy protesting a guy that didn't comply with police because he was high on meth, while China is taking away Hong Kong's autonomy, and using the BLM movement as a propoganda piece to suit their own means.

Wash your hands, wear masks, sanitize, social distance. My doctor friend called it , way back in February, and the same rules hold true now. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Oh, I totally agree. The lies coming out of China and being spouted by the WHO were egregious. Personally, I think China should be held accountable for the financial burden this pandemic has put on the rest of the world. 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

1 minute ago, ICrappedMyPants said:

Oh, I totally agree. The lies coming out of China and being spouted by the WHO were egregious. Personally, I think China should be held accountable for the financial burden this pandemic has put on the rest of the world. 

I personally believe that the whole politicisation of the covid-19 in the USA would have been impossible to avoid, given the already extremely toxic animosity between both political parties and their followers. With the amount bid misinformation out there, initially from the global world health organisation , the experts, I can certainly see why many people would follow it up by mistrusting the corrected information, or the experts information later, especially if being provided by someone of the other political party.

That's how divided we are by now, but hey, if the world org is giving bogus information, why trust what a political group that isn't yours is saying, could be just trying to push their agenda? 

I personally don't follow this, I think many here on VGS similarly do their own research and draw their own conclusions, but every day America? 

[Doctornick | 419]

I have to say watching all of these states that opened way too early start shutting things down again is great.  It at least helps drive the point home to our more ignorant visitors to the emergency room.  I hope you are all staying safe and staying home as much as possible gamers.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

16 minutes ago, Doctornick said:

I have to say watching all of these states that opened way too early start shutting things down again is great.  It at least helps drive the point home to our more ignorant visitors to the emergency room.  I hope you are all staying safe and staying home as much as possible gamers.

I don't think we should ever end up in a position like that, just to prove a point - people are getting infected and dying.

I do agree though that I hope everyone here stays safe, weekend's soon here, I hope I'll be out and about, what about everyone else?

[Doctornick | 419]

48 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I don't think we should ever end up in a position like that, just to prove a point - people are getting infected and dying.

I do agree though that I hope everyone here stays safe, weekend's soon here, I hope I'll be out and about, what about everyone else?

I agree with you we shouldn't end up in a position like this, but 100+ days of ignorance really wears you down

[Tabonga | 2,317]

To a certain extent the increase in cases is clouded - increased testing is going to perforce increase reported cases (which term  itself is somewhat misleading since that includes people who have been exposed to it but never suffered severe consequences - more useful IMHO is the number of people requiring hospitalization and the number of deaths.*)  The biggest problem is we don't really know when the reported cases that are just antibody positive became so - did they get the virus two months ago or two weeks ago - there is no way of telling.)

Another reported phenomena is that the hospitals in some areas are filling up - what has happened is that in some areas elective surgeries that were delayed (to make room for a possible influx of virus cases) were allowed to occur - so a lot of the hospitals are now filled with both those and whatever new cases appear.  

And we really have no way to distinguish new cases due to reopenings and the inevitable effect of the widespread protesting/rioting/looting/burning.**

*We do know that the death rate is actually continuing to decrease - due both to the increased number of "cases" and more efficacious treatments.

**(In fact some places such as New York are actively suppressing  contact tracing that could/would lead back to the protesting/rioting/looting/burning. Politics supercedes science yet again - to everyone's detriment.)

Edited July 2, 2020 by Tabonga

[Tulpa | 3,493]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/16/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-likely-to-protect-for-a-year-ceo-says.html

[Tabonga | 2,317]

Words fail me here:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/10-person-brawl-broke-arkansas-212036597.html

[Doctornick | 419]

6 hours ago, Tabonga said:

To a certain extent the increase in cases is clouded - increased testing is going to perforce increase reported cases (which term  itself is somewhat misleading since that includes people who have been exposed to it but never suffered severe consequences - more useful IMHO is the number of people requiring hospitalization and the number of deaths.*)  The biggest problem is we don't really know when the reported cases that are just antibody positive became so - did they get the virus two months ago or two weeks ago - there is no way of telling.)

Another reported phenomena is that the hospitals in some areas are filling up - what has happened is that in some areas elective surgeries that were delayed (to make room for a possible influx of virus cases) were allowed to occur - so a lot of the hospitals are now filled with both those and whatever new cases appear.  

And we really have no way to distinguish new cases due to reopenings and the inevitable effect of the widespread protesting/rioting/looting/burning.**

*We do know that the death rate is actually continuing to decrease - due both to the increased number of "cases" and more efficacious treatments.

**(In fact some places such as New York are actively suppressing  contact tracing that could/would lead back to the protesting/rioting/looting/burning. Politics supercedes science yet again - to everyone's detriment.)

I debate this enough with patients on a daily basis, but a majority of what you posted here is false.  You can view the statements from the CDC and most health departments as well but the spike is much higher than just because of testing.  Also the lag for cases is about a month, and spikes really started two weeks ago which is a month after the "smart" states started opening everything.  There will probably be another noticeable spike from protests soon.  The final lag statistics are deaths/hospitalizations, and those will also be showing up soon (already are in TX/FL/AZ)

Statements like what you posted are dangerous (misinformation), please think about that before replying.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

1 minute ago, Doctornick said:

I debate this enough with patients on a daily basis, but a majority of what you posted here is false.  You can view the statements from the CDC and most health departments as well but the spike is much higher than just because of testing.  Also the lag for cases is about a month, and spikes really started two weeks ago which is a month after the "smart" states started opening everything.  There will probably be another noticeable spike from protests soon.  The final lag statistics are deaths/hospitalizations, and those will also be showing up soon (already are in TX/FL/AZ)

Statements like what you posted are dangerous (misinformation), please think about that before replying.

Positive tests in Ohio have been up, but deaths/hospitilatizations have been trending downward (not that the Governor will mention that part).

[Doctornick | 419]

13 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

Positive tests in Ohio have been up, but deaths/hospitilatizations have been trending downward (not that the Governor will mention that part).

Those statistics lag behind case counts.  I wish I could confidently say they will continue downwards, but that isn't how it works sadly.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

1 minute ago, Doctornick said:

Those statistics lag behind case counts.  I wish I could confidently say they will continue downwards, but that isn't how it works sadly.

Ohio finally added a "presumed recovered" stat today which is 38,987. I think we are doing as well as can be expected.

[B.A. | 1,139]

I don't generally like to put my personal business out on the internet, and chances are I will think better of this later and delete it...but what the hey. 

I live in MN and I hate winter. I live for the 3 or 4 months of nice weather we get. I plan and cram an entire year of living into that time. Now I could move, that's partly on me, but I have aging parents here so I haven't. 

Covid has been an enormous strain on my mental health. I am a social person who needs interaction with other humans, I don't do well being locked indoors, especially during the precious summer months. As a result my drinking has gone WAY up, which is something I really don't need. I come from a family full of alcoholics. 

My marriage has been suffering, my wife has been working very long hours which leaves me to deal with our 2 young kids, who had all of their summer activities canceled, pretty much on my own. I still work fulltime, and my job expectations haven't lessened. It's good that we both still have jobs, but homeschooling and now all day childcare requirements have caused what I expect to be an unfixable crack between my wife and I. Things won't be the same there again. 

I don't want to fucking social distance, I can't take it anymore. But hey, I don't have Covid (that I know of), and we all know that's all that really matters.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

7 minutes ago, B.A. said:

I don't generally like to put my personal business out on the internet, and chances are I will think better of this later and delete it...but what the hey. 

I live in MN and I hate winter. I live for the 3 or 4 months of nice weather we get. I plan and cram an entire year of living into that time. Now I could move, that's partly on me, but I have aging parents here so I haven't. 

Covid has been an enormous strain on my mental health. I am a social person who needs interaction with other humans, I don't do well being locked indoors, especially during the precious summer months. As a result my drinking has gone WAY up, which is something I really don't need. I come from a family full of alcoholics. 

My marriage has been suffering, my wife has been working very long hours which leaves me to deal with our 2 young kids, who had all of their summer activities canceled, pretty much on my own. I still work fulltime, and my job expectations haven't lessened. It's good that we both still have jobs, but homeschooling and now all day childcare requirements have caused what I expect to be an unfixable crack between my wife and I. Things won't be the same there again. 

I don't want to fucking social distance, I can't take it anymore. But hey, I don't have Covid (that I know of), and we all know that's all that really matters.

I've been out almost daily since Ohio opened up. I've got anxiety/depression issues and being trapped indoors is the worst. I definitely haven't been living my best life the last few months either. I don't have anything as of last week, so there is that. I'm sure you're not alone in anything you've said.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Bearcat-Doug

[Tabonga | 2,317]

24 minutes ago, Doctornick said:

I debate this enough with patients on a daily basis, but a majority of what you posted here is false.  You can view the statements from the CDC and most health departments as well but the spike is much higher than just because of testing.  Also the lag for cases is about a month, and spikes really started two weeks ago which is a month after the "smart" states started opening everything.  There will probably be another noticeable spike from protests soon.  The final lag statistics are deaths/hospitalizations, and those will also be showing up soon (already are in TX/FL/AZ)

Statements like what you posted are dangerous (misinformation), please think about that before replying.

So increased testing is not going to show in increase in cases - it has already been demonstrated that increased testing has shown levels of  incidence higher than previously thought?  

Some states have lifted bans on elective surgeries.  Texas just put ones in in several counties.

So we can tell how long someone has had the antibodies (barring repeat testings).

And the death rate is not decreasing ? (News reports have been saying that for awhile).

And New York (at least) is vigourously tracking protest/etc./etc.attendance in their contact tracing?

=============================

This is a discussion board  which involves people expressing their thoughts - in any event did I advocate any course of actions based on my opinions?  And just about everyone here is a card carrying adult - they can do whatever they like with either of our opinions.

 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

10 minutes ago, B.A. said:

I don't generally like to put my personal business out on the internet, and chances are I will think better of this later and delete it...but what the hey. 

I live in MN and I hate winter. I live for the 3 or 4 months of nice weather we get. I plan and cram an entire year of living into that time. Now I could move, that's partly on me, but I have aging parents here so I haven't. 

Covid has been an enormous strain on my mental health. I am a social person who needs interaction with other humans, I don't do well being locked indoors, especially during the precious summer months. As a result my drinking has gone WAY up, which is something I really don't need. I come from a family full of alcoholics. 

My marriage has been suffering, my wife has been working very long hours which leaves me to deal with our 2 young kids, who had all of their summer activities canceled, pretty much on my own. I still work fulltime, and my job expectations haven't lessened. It's good that we both still have jobs, but homeschooling and now all day childcare requirements have caused what I expect to be an unfixable crack between my wife and I. Things won't be the same there again. 

I don't want to fucking social distance, I can't take it anymore. But hey, I don't have Covid (that I know of), and we all know that's all that really matters.

I hear you -Mrs,Tabonga has been showing the strain in her behaviour- me not so much because I am more of an introvert so it doesn't bother me as much - but I have to react/deak with her frustartions,  But suicide rates, domestic violence (and domestic strife due to stess) etc* are going to start manifesting themselves more and more as lockdowns continue - most people just are not psychologically capable of dealing with this stuff on a long term basis.  I suspect the bar fight I posted earlier had more to do with people's continuing frustrations as anything else.

*It is likely that the various governments' decisions to consider alchohol and pot as "essential" can only add to the problem in the loong run, Let's keep drinking since there is nothing else to do.................

[Doctornick | 419]

37 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

So increased testing is not going to show in increase in cases - it has already been demonstrated that increased testing has shown levels of  incidence higher than previously thought?  

Some states have lifted bans on elective surgeries.  Texas just put ones in in several counties.

So we can tell how long someone has had the antibodies (barring repeat testings).

And the death rate is not decreasing ? (News reports have been saying that for awhile).

And New York (at least) is vigourously tracking protest/etc./etc.attendance in their contact tracing?

=============================

This is a discussion board  which involves people expressing their thoughts - in any event did I advocate any course of actions based on my opinions?  And just about everyone here is a card carrying adult - they can do whatever they like with either of our opinions.

 

Increased testing shouldn't show massive jumps in cases that we are seeing.  Deaths have been decreasing, what I was implying is due to the lag from case reported to hospitalization to death isn't going to show that increase for 6 to 8 weeks.  We will see it soon, and already are in some places.  Look at Europe if you want to see how the numbers should look at this point.

Adults are more susceptible to dangerous misinformation than children, seeing as we typically don't have someone telling us right from wrong any longer.  You're free to if ignore my advice and that of any medical professional you want, but when you post opinions like this I'm going to correct it every single time for those that genuinely don't know.

[Link | 2,709]

It’s affecting my mental health as well. I’m just nervous and anxious all the time. I’ve never felt that before. Doctors double check their equipment when they take my blood pressure because it seems too low. I think it’s a lot higher now. I feel it.

Most of my coworkers don’t wear masks. I hate them. 

I have never dealt with this uncertainty before. I have not had a sheltered life. I just have usually been at least somewhat equipped to know how to respond to a situation. We don’t know how long this will go on, what the permanent effects to our society will be. I miss seeing and hugging my friends. 

At least I can say I have not been drinking more... I’ve been drinking too much for years!   

[spacepup | 2,404]

I think the voices and opinions of people who are struggling right now due to the lockdowns are absolutely valid, and important for us to hear.  I do think it's important for all of us to think about all of the different ramifications and consequences of what is happening.  There is no perfect solution here, and what helps in one area, may hurt in another.  And also, everyone's experience with this is going to be a bit different.  There are some people who this is affecting very very little, and others whose lives have been turned upside down - whether due to losing their jobs, losing loved ones, struggles such as some that have been shared above, etc.  So, while I do still believe we should be careful and take precautions to keep us safe, I do think it's also important to hear those concerns, and at least not completely invalidate them.

I am currently engaging in social distancing, and wearing a mask, because I think that not only does that help keep people safe, but I feel like the more people that do it, the better situation we'll all be in.  If people get frustrated and completely throw out the rules, and start partying and congregating, I worry that cases will increase and we'll see further, or longer restrictions, not to mention the negative health effects or illnesses / deaths from COVID.

Now --- nothing substitutes for the way life was before - being able to party closely with friends, hang out with large groups, be super social, etc.  But what I do encourage people to do, in whatever way you can - is to try to think of creative ways to at least do SOME of what you were able to do before.  I do think it will help.  Going on walks outside, going to the park, "social distance picnics" (this is something I've been doing with friends, and it has been working out really well, and has been awesome for our social and mental health), and even video calls with friends and family.

Of course these things aren't substitutes for the real thing, and I also know that some of them are difficult to do, because of limitations with childcare, etc., but I do encourage everyone to try and make special efforts to do as much of them as you can.  It seems like common sense, but I think sometimes we can still get complacent and just let time slip by, without the social interaction, and for many that's not good.  Yeah - it may seem weird at first to have scheduled ZOOM calls with friends, or the "social distance picnic" like I described - but in my experience, it has really really helped.  

I don't say any of this to minimize the concerns expressed above -- they are real, serious, concerns, and I can understand why people might get frustrated being told constantly to deal with it.  But, also remember that being told to social distance, does not equal forced complete isolation, even if it may feel that way sometimes.  Maybe outings are a bit weird and awkward, but we can still have them.  I'm trying to make peace with being able to do the next best thing right now, and feel I'm currently able to maintain a healthy balance.  I know that is harder for many, and I appreciate and have empathy and understanding for that.  

 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

1 hour ago, Doctornick said:

Increased testing shouldn't show massive jumps in cases that we are seeing.  Deaths have been decreasing, what I was implying is due to the lag from case reported to hospitalization to death isn't going to show that increase for 6 to 8 weeks.  We will see it soon, and already are in some places.  Look at Europe if you want to see how the numbers should look at this point.

Adults are more susceptible to dangerous misinformation than children, seeing as we typically don't have someone telling us right from wrong any longer.  You're free to if ignore my advice and that of any medical professional you want, but when you post opinions like this I'm going to correct it every single time for those that genuinely don't know.

As I said we are all free to voice our opinions.  

Increased testing in the past has indicated higher rates of occurrence than previously believed - most likely due to an earlier  rate of occurrence than was previously believed.  (And at least in Colorado (I don't know about other states) a lot of the testing is done via drive ups/walkins - which is a somewhat undisciplined way to collect (and therefore fully analyze) data. IMHO of course.

But to ask again - is the antibody testing (barring repeat testing of same samples) able to pinpoint when someone got virus?  

And is (at least in New York - and maybe other jurisdictions) contact tracing being skewed away from reporting attendance at the various protests/etc.etc. ?  Seems to be a really important thing to trace given the the size of those, the lack of social distancing and often a  lack of masks. 

Somewhat OT - this is neither the time nor place bur I can tell you some real horror  stories about the "medical profestionals" I worked with at a state hopsital - most of the doctors could not practice without having one of the few licensed doctors (who often had problems of their own) had to countersign everything they did.  And I got to see at least one patient die (and probably two) due to some pretty severe incompetence.   Does this mean every medical professional is problematic - no - but the percentage was sadly ridiulously high where I worked.  

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Tabonga