Movie Debate #79: Joker

[Jeevan | 8,948]

Just now, ZeldaFreak said:

Hello, I'm one of those dummies that needed to have it spelled out for me to get it, hahaha.

In my defense, I was very tired when we saw it in theaters.

Ya big dummy!

LOL JK

[ZeldaFreak | 3,619]

6 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

I haven't seen the joker in the batman returns, but that doesn't mean that he can't laugh etc. in the original batman movies from the 90s........It doesn't matter what it is called because of the fact that he was the main villain, so it was about 50% about him........or at least iirc.

Maybe, but I don't know what the watchmen is........Also, my buddy told me this was a remake of a movie that was not about the comic world.......I honestly don't know but I guess it was

I know, my point being that Joker entirely focuses on the titular character, whereas something like Batman isn't going to entirely focus on him, so just based on that there isn't going to be as much omnipresent laughter.

Also, the movie has a lot of similarities to Taxi Driver (Which I have seen, very very good movie) and The King of Comedy, which I have not seen. Calling it a remake is a bit dishonest though, I don't know about King of Comedy, but Taxi Driver, while it is similar in a lot of ways, is definitely a very different movie in my opinion.

[Jeevan | 8,948]

Just now, ZeldaFreak said:

I know, my point being that Joker entirely focuses on the titular character, whereas something like Batman isn'

[ZeldaFreak | 3,619]

3 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

child

[Jeevan | 8,948]

Just now, ZeldaFreak said:

child

at one point in time yes  

[Californication | 1,490]

7 minutes ago, ZeldaFreak said:

I know, my point being that Joker entirely focuses on the titular character, whereas something like Batman isn't going to entirely focus on him, so just based on that there isn't going to be as much omnipresent laughter.

Also, the movie has a lot of similarities to Taxi Driver (Which I have seen, very very good movie) and The King of Comedy, which I have not seen. Calling it a remake is a bit dishonest though, I don't know about King of Comedy, but Taxi Driver, while it is similar in a lot of ways, is definitely a very different movie in my opinion.

Didn't think of Taxi Driver, but ya, they have similarities.

But Joker and the Taxi Driver character represent different people in society. The Taxi Driver character could more or less pass as normal, served in the military, and felt disaffected because of things he felt were immoral in society although these things have always plagued societies, and the movie had a lot of subtle undertones that racism played a part in his actions.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Californication

[ZeldaFreak | 3,619]

3 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

at one point in time yes  

That one point in time being now, of course, haha

[Reed Rothchild | 9,588]

11 hours ago, Californication said:

This one plays less like a comic book movie and more like social commentary like the Watchmen.

I'd say it's a cross between Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, and just happens to have a very tenuous (if not nonexistent) link to comics.

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,588]

Christ, ZF beat me to it.  Which must mean that connection is all over the internet and I'm not some sort of super observant hypernerd that just happened to be the first person to notice it 

[Jeevan | 8,948]

13 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Christ, ZF beat me to it.  Which must mean that connection is all over the internet and I'm not some sort of super observant hypernerd that just happened to be the first person to notice it 

to be fair, my buddy knew it because he had seen both as well.  Apparently it is obvious, but I have seen neither of the 2 afformentioned movies, i just know my buddy told me that it followed them kinda, sorta, even to the extent of when he did that thing on the tv show to the guy that was in the other movie   

[AstralSoul | 503]

Still need to see it, just haven't had time

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

It's was OK. It was over-hyped and not nearly a 'deep' as people were describing it before I got to it. It reminded me of Taxi Driver, for sure, but was subpar in every way. I gave it a 5 (could argue a 6). I feel like Taxi Driver would be closer to a 9.

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,169]

I gave it a 6. It was entertaining for sure, but I don't think I would ever watch it again. 

[Ferris Bueller | 495]

The Pitch

It's like Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy together, but with the Joker!

Edited July 19, 2021 by Ferris Bueller

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

4 minutes ago, Ferris Bueller said:

The Pitch

It's like Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy together, but with the Joker!

It's like "reverse Taxi Driver".

Travis in Taxi Driver has a similar psychotic break, but he's a vigilante "hero" rather than a villain...

[Reed Rothchild | 9,588]

28 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

It's like "reverse Taxi Driver".

Travis in Taxi Driver has a similar psychotic break, but he's a vigilante "hero" rather than a villain...

I prefer the interpretation where he's so completely lost his shit that he just thinks he's a beloved hero 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

Just now, Reed Rothchild said:

I prefer the interpretation where he's so completely lost his shit that he just thinks he's a beloved hero 

Which guy? Travis?

I mean, at best, he's definitely an anti-hero, because he isn't just a vigilante, but full-blown crazy to where his lines for who he thinks are bad guys could get pretty blurry pretty quick.

Basically -- he is like a more-realistic version of The Punisher, but with potentially poorer target discernment and serious mental health problems.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,588]

3 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Which guy? Travis?

I mean, at best, he's definitely an anti-hero, because he isn't just a vigilante, but full-blown crazy to where his lines for who he thinks are bad guys could get pretty blurry pretty quick.

Basically -- he is like a more-realistic version of The Punisher, but with potentially poorer target discernment and serious mental health problems.

I think Cybill Shepherd coming to visit him is all in his mind.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 minute ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I think Cybill Shepherd coming to visit him is all in his mind.

sure.  doesnt mean he isnt explicitly killing bad guys, though...

[Reed Rothchild | 9,588]

1 minute ago, arch_8ngel said:

sure.  doesnt mean he isnt explicitly killing bad guys, though...

Sure.  Plan B was killing the stooges around Jodie Foster, as opposed to Plan A: killing the people around Shepard (ie the Senator)

So he accidentally did the right thing after the Secret Service foiled him.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,588]

Maybe we should do Taxi Driver next week 

[Californication | 1,490]

I think Taxi driver was mostly about Travis's breakdown. Joker started there, but kept going.

SPOILER

Spoiler

Joker is about the characters breakdown, but transitions to a commentary on society. 

Bruce Wayne coming from a wealthy complete family; Joker poor family no father.

The finance guys who work for Wayne enterprises that are assholes who will probably move ahead because they look good on paper. 

The way the media instinctively defends the finance guys.

The way the mob protects Joker because he becomes a symbol of their feelings and a want to change societies structure.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Californication

[themisfit138 | 523]

I was nice and gave it a 5. Seen it once, never watch it again. It is just another modern movie, needlessly dark and depressing. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by themisfit138

[Kguillemette | 1,547]

6/10. Certainly a good movie, it is however quite forgettable and kind of boring at times. King of Comedy, for example, has had a lasting impression on me.

Interesting that Robert De Niro plays a major role in all three of the movies. Makes me wonder how much influence he had on the Joker Script.

The movie itself certainly is a thought piece.

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,588]

I gave it a 7.  Rather enjoyed my viewing.  Some small part of me was also waiting for some incel in the theater to open fire on the rest of us.