Movie Debate #79: Joker

[JamesRobot | 5,837]

I did enjoy Joker and think it's rather good, but like @themisfit138 I feel it's just another needlessly dark and depressing modern take.  I'll go 6.  I might catch it again if I stumble across it and the mood strikes.  

[JamesRobot | 5,837]

5th 6th best cinematic Joker portrayal.

Caesar Romero>Mark Hammill>Jack Nicholson>Zack Galifianakis>Jared Leto>Joaquin Phoenix>Heath Ledger

Edited July 20, 2021 by JamesRobot
Forgot about Lego Batman's Joker.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,619]

11 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

5th best cinematic Joker portrayal.

Caesar Romero>Mark Hammill>Jack Nicholson>Jared Leto>Joaquin Phoenix>Heath Ledger

Yeah, I think if you're a fan of the more goofy, over the top takes of the Joker (As you appear to be, based on your ranking there) I think you'd be less likely to enjoy this film.

Ranking Jared Leto above Joaquin though? Now THAT is a hot take, hahaha.

[JamesRobot | 5,837]

2 hours ago, ZeldaFreak said:

Yeah, I think if you're a fan of the more goofy, over the top takes of the Joker (As you appear to be, based on your ranking there) I think you'd be less likely to enjoy this film.

Ranking Jared Leto above Joaquin though? Now THAT is a hot take, hahaha.

Above all, Joker needs to be funny.  Joaquin's portrayal, while well acted, was more piteous than funny.  I actually enjoyed Leto's sick sense of humor and thought he was one of the more redeeming qualities of Suicide Squad.  Joker is the better film though.

Another "hot take," both Ben Affleck and Jared Leto should've continued their roles in the DCU.  Batffleck was actually pretty great.  He's perfect as flip billionaire Bruce Wayne (and has the best bat suit since Adam West).  Bruce's public persona is an act and is always portrayed as too righteous.  He should be kind of a dick.  Will Arnett's Lego Batman Bruce Wayne is right on the money.

Edited July 20, 2021 by JamesRobot

[ZeldaFreak | 3,619]

58 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

Above all, Joker needs to be funny.  Joaquin's portrayal, while well acted, was more piteous than funny.  I actually enjoyed Leto's sick sense of humor and thought he was one of the more redeeming qualities of Suicide Squad.  Joker is the better film though.

Another "hot take," both Ben Affleck and Jared Leto should've continued their roles in the DCU.  Batffleck was actually pretty great.  He's perfect as flip billionaire Bruce Wayne (and has the best bat suit since Adam West).  Bruce's public persona is an act and is always portrayed as too righteous.  He should be kind of a dick.  Will Arnett's Lego Batman Bruce Wayne is right on the money.

Yeah, I can totally see that. Different strokes for different folks, there's appeal to either approach to the character. And I'd say that's one of the great things about the Joker being such a popular character, you've got so many different interpretations that there's always gonna be a little something for everyone. If you don't like one portrayal, you might like another.

My only real counterargument to that "Joker needs to be funny" point is that (spoilers ahead, if it wasn't clear)

Spoiler

You don't well and truly see the Joker until the moment he draws that smile on his face with his own blood. The whole movie is about Arthur's transition from... well, Arthur, to the Joker. He's almost there the moment you see him in his full outfit, but I'd argue the moment he draws that smile is when he fully embraces it. For a large portion of the movie, we're spectating Arthur, not the Joker as we know him. I guess you could say the title of the movie describes the punchline, not the movie as a whole.

I do agree on Ben Affleck though. He was a fantastic portrayal of Batman in his later years, although I am looking forward to seeing what The Batman brings to the table. (They're really running out of Batman movie titles, haha.)

Edited July 20, 2021 by ZeldaFreak

[Sumez | 2,995]

Great movie, and I don't understand all the flak it gets. Might have been better if it wasn't presented as a "joker" movie, and I think drawing the Wayne family into the story does it absolutely no favors. The movie isn't about the Joker at all.

Still, adding just a tiny bit of colorful comic book flavor to any serious story about classicism can actually work pretty well in the movie format, and I think it does just about right in this one.
It does such a good job at portraying a subtly suppressed lower middle class it made my eyes all teary by the end when the riot broke out. But I've also seen that aspect of the movie kinda lost of people who may be too privileged to recognize that at all? It's not exactly a deep or complex movie, though, everything is pretty much on the wall, and I think that's fine.

[DefaultGen | 5,436]

On 7/19/2021 at 7:44 PM, JamesRobot said:

5th 6th best cinematic Joker portrayal.

Caesar Romero>Mark Hammill>Jack Nicholson>Zack Galifianakis>Jared Leto>Joaquin Phoenix>Heath Ledger

[JamesRobot | 5,837]

5 hours ago, DefaultGen said:

[Shawn | 31]

10

[G-type | 2,533]

I liked it a lot. Joaquin Phoenix performance was mesmerising