The 2021 Backlog Challenge

[Jeevan | 8,911]

FINALLY BEAT STARTROPICS!!!!  @Reed Rothchild I did something for this   Now maybe a mission or 2 of commandos!!!!  Werewolf is ongoing, but hopefully I can knock out another game this week or next!  1/5 of the way through my list!

[Jeevan | 8,911]

Oh, the scenes at the end of startropics are good.  Very well done!  I like them!

Also, didn't know you made qbert when you beat the game!

[Reed Rothchild | 9,532]

20 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

FINALLY BEAT STARTROPICS!!!!  @Reed Rothchild I did something for this   Now maybe a mission or 2 of commandos!!!!  Werewolf is ongoing, but hopefully I can knock out another game this week or next!  1/5 of the way through my list!

WEREWOLF?

Don't you ever get tired of babysitting all of us 

[Jeevan | 8,911]

6 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

WEREWOLF?

Don't you ever get tired of babysitting all of us 

yes, but this is easier-ish

[Sumez | 2,952]

6 hours ago, Jeevan said:

Also, didn't know you made qbert when you beat the game!

In the sequel you'll be making Tetris.

[G-type | 2,482]

I made some attempts at Super Mario 2... I died where I've always died... World 4.. maybe I should try warping to World 5 and just skipping it...

Which do you think is the tougher route?

1 -> 4 -> 6 -> 7

or 

1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 5 -> 7

[peg | 371]

Just beat contra iii on hard without dying. Wasn't really one of the goals I listed but something I've been meaning to do for a long, long time. Finally put some focused effort into it and it came a lot sooner than I was expecting.

[Sumez | 2,952]

On 6/8/2021 at 8:44 PM, DoctorEncore said:

I put about 20-30 hours into this game when I was in college until I finally quit out of boredom. It is so damn repetitive. It's actually pretty incredible how much better the sequel is.

I can kinda see this.

I'm still enjoying the game, and have a hard time putting it down for some reason.
It's incredible how derivative it is of the original three Dragon Quest games, but at the same time it's also missing pretty much everything that really sets those games apart.

Once you get a full party and both you and enemies start using multi-target attacks more frequently, combat starts to get really tedious. It's generally fast-paced, but the need for every target of a multi-target attack needing to play out and animate one after another gets aggrevating combined with the obnoxiously high encounter rate and consistently huge and mazelike dungeons, which otherwise all feel very identical.

I really want to finish this before playing the sequel though.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

20 hours ago, Sumez said:

I can kinda see this.

I'm still enjoying the game, and have a hard time putting it down for some reason.
It's incredible how derivative it is of the original three Dragon Quest games, but at the same time it's also missing pretty much everything that really sets those games apart.

Once you get a full party and both you and enemies start using multi-target attacks more frequently, combat starts to get really tedious. It's generally fast-paced, but the need for every target of a multi-target attack needing to play out and animate one after another gets aggrevating combined with the obnoxiously high encounter rate and consistently huge and mazelike dungeons, which otherwise all feel very identical.

I really want to finish this before playing the sequel though.

I don't think I've actually thought about the experience of playing this game in 15 years, but your description sounds painfully accurate. Knowing how good the sequel/prequel is, it's tough to go back to the original.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,532]

Shameless plug:
http://snesrankings.com/games/225_201.html#209

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

Updated my chart.

I didn't necessarily "beat" everything, but I played enough to say I'm done with them

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

16 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Shameless plug:
http://snesrankings.com/games/225_201.html#209

I'm not trying to be critical of your list, but do you really think Lufia is better than Breath of Fire? At least BoF has interesting characters, strong visuals, and some novel aspects to the battle system. Lufia is just soooooooooo generic.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,532]

1 hour ago, DoctorEncore said:

I'm not trying to be critical of your list, but do you really think Lufia is better than Breath of Fire? At least BoF has interesting characters, strong visuals, and some novel aspects to the battle system. Lufia is just soooooooooo generic.

Lufia is also much less painless to get through, with much less annoyance.

I'd also call the "novel" battle system more of a "novelty."

Either way, it's splitting hairs to think either one is significantly better or worse than the other.  They're both painfully mediocre compared to JRPGs heavies on the SNES.  I say that as someone who has completed every single one that saw a Western release.

...well, almost every one.  Technically I'm still at the very end of Inindo.  

On the other hand, I also acknowledge in one of the reviews that the playthroughs were 17 years apart.  So you certainly could be on to something.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

7 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Lufia is also much less painless to get through, with much less annoyance.

I'd also call the "novel" battle system more of a "novelty."

Either way, it's splitting hairs to think either one is significantly better or worse than the other.  They're both painfully mediocre compared to JRPGs heavies on the SNES.  I say that as someone who has completed every single one that saw a Western release.

...well, almost every one.  Technically I'm still at the very end of Inindo.  

On the other hand, I also acknowledge in one of the reviews that the playthroughs were 17 years apart.  So you certainly could be on to something.

I may be just wearing a heavily rose-colored pair of glasses and I'm probably not the best judge. I really don't think I saw the credits of either game either. I just remember enjoying my time with BoF WAY more than Lufia.

Maybe I'll make MY OWN list ranking every SNES game (I won't).

[MagusSmurf | 577]

I’ve got both Lufia 1 and BoF1 at 6/10. I think I prefer Lufia 1 but would guess most would prefer Breath of Fire but not enough to recommend either to basically anyone besides people really interested in delving past the heavy hitters into a very particular era of JRPGs or seeing how those franchises got their start and led to better games.

Breath of Fire 1 has good character designs but I don’t think I’d call its cast interesting.

 

[Murray | 2,448]

@Jeevan 

[Jeevan | 8,911]

1 minute ago, Murray said:

@Jeevan 

congrats buddy!!!!  Glad you made it out of the cursed teleport part

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

22 hours ago, MagusSmurf said:

I’ve got both Lufia 1 and BoF1 at 6/10. I think I prefer Lufia 1 but would guess most would prefer Breath of Fire but not enough to recommend either to basically anyone besides people really interested in delving past the heavy hitters into a very particular era of JRPGs or seeing how those franchises got their start and led to better games.

Breath of Fire 1 has good character designs but I don’t think I’d call its cast interesting.

 

You're right about the characters for sure. I meant to say the character designs were interesting; their personalities are as nuanced as a cardboard cutout. I still think the dragon transformation alone makes the battle system in BoF better than Lufia which is important since both games spend a lot of time in random battles.

But I'm intrigued to see multiple people who would take Lufia over BoF. I always thought people loved BoF and I personally felt that Lufia was hot garbage. Maybe when I'm like 80 years old and have some free time I'll go back and play them again.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (Switch) is officially in the can and that makes 5 for the year! Since I'm moving along at a good clip and Psychonauts is going down soon, I'm upping my 2021 goal to 10 games!

As for Captain Toad, it was mostly fun and had a few high notes, but it never rises above "good." I'd rate it a 6.5/10.

Pros:
+Unique gameplay that is well-suited for short play sessions
+Super Mario Odyssey stages are a great addition
+Collecting the diamonds provides an enjoyable secondary goal on nearly every level

Cons:
-Limited camera controls often lead to poor visualization
-Controls feel imprecise
-Multiple on-rails levels with no risk of death
-Repetitive. Bosses get re-used and the bonus episode has a lot of repeat stages.

Edited June 13, 2021 by DoctorEncore

[Sumez | 2,952]

On 6/11/2021 at 4:44 AM, Reed Rothchild said:

Shameless plug:
http://snesrankings.com/games/225_201.html#209

I can see why you'd want to compare FF6 and Lufia, but in a way it feels like an unfair comparison. I'd even argue that Lufia 1 doesn't even try to be anything near what that game is, but that's probably not true. I'm sure, if they did have the skill, ambition and budget, they would definitely have wanted Lufia to have been FF6. Who wouldn't want to make a game like FF6?

But I wouldn't recommend Lufia to anyone who enjoys games like FF6, Chrono Trigger and so on for what those games do best. At the end of the day, Lufia to me feels like a completely different kind of game. A more "pure" and basic game. It's a stripped down JRPG focusing on core game elements which for the most part are decently balanced. It would be impossible not to compare it to the Dragon Quest series, of course, because it's so derivative that it hurts.

In particular, it feels like it follows the exact beats of the original three DQ titles (primarily  2 and 3), but at the same time it possesses only the core basics, and none of what really makes those games special. And in the case of those games, it's not as simple as FF6's epic storytelling and likable characters, because it's little details in the gameplay and in the world that you explore.

I found a surprisingly great review of Lufia 1 on GameFAQs of all places. Though I probably wouldn't be as hard on Lufia, I agree with pretty much everything they are saying.
One thing I do enjoy in Lufia, is how tight the balance of your characters' strength is compared to the enemies you face and the areas you need to explore. You're always a bit underpowered, the enemies die fast but hit hard, and the game's economy always manages to hover nicely around not being able to afford all the new gear you want whenever you reach a new town, and which also happen to be just what you need to give you an edge in the upcoming fights.
And to avoid relying on grinding, they made that dungeon you can return to regularly to explore new, tougher floors. It isn't mandatory by any means, but can really help you out via all the treasures you find. It's one of the few things I think Lufia didn't steal from any other games, and I think it works well.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,532]

I definitely like that perspective too.

Is it fair?  I'm not sure.  I also later compared Spike McFang to Link to the Past.  Another gross mismatch.

But at the same time, how many people went into Lufia with raised expectations because of games like FF III?  I know I did once upon a time.  Back in the 90s I had all sorts of fantasies about all of the SNES RPGs I hadn't gotten a chance to check out. 

And maybe the developers didn't hope to compete with those sorts of games.  But when I'm ranking a library like that, I have to make those comparisons in order to slot everything.  Everything is compared against everything else.  Lufia doesn't aspire to be a top 25 game.  And it's not a top 25 game.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

As I was contemplating my next game, I realized I should probably always be playing something on Switch. It's so much easier to find a few minutes for portable Switch gaming than it is to turn on any console. My list is a little sparse on Switch games with the exception of some exceedingly long RPGs and I've pretty much decided 2022 is gonna be the year of the JRPG for me. So I decided to go off list and to some true classics with Super Mario 3D Collection. I've never played SM 64 or Mario Galaxy and that's a damn shame.

[Sumez | 2,952]

I reached what I'm assuming is the final dungeon in Lufia, so taking some time to compose myself, as I'm expecting it to probably be a massive exhausting labyrinth with a few tough surprises.

On 6/13/2021 at 7:10 PM, Reed Rothchild said:

And maybe the developers didn't hope to compete with those sorts of games.  But when I'm ranking a library like that, I have to make those comparisons in order to slot everything.  Everything is compared against everything else.  Lufia doesn't aspire to be a top 25 game.  And it's not a top 25 game.

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant by why I understand why you'd compare them. Obviously, Lufia 1 would never even get close to the top 25 SNES games.

But I do think its shortcomings have nothing to do with a lack of engaging plot or memorable storytelling. The bigger issues are the things it actually does aim to do, but doesn't do well.
The battle system feels nice and streamlined at first, but the moment you get a full party, and more characters and enemies both get multi-target abilities it becomes super tedious, and in ways it has absolutely no reason for. Combined with an obnoxiously high encounter rate and insanely long dungeons (that often require you to wade down through multiple long winded dead ends) I just end up smokebomb'ing (guaranteed escape) my way out of a ton of them just to have any hope of ever finishing a dungeon before bedtime.
The Dragon Quest series is notorious for similar slow paced battles that take way too long to type out everything, yet I never got as fed up with constant encounters in those games.

It's too bad, because to some extent I like the idea of the dungeon design in Lufia, there's a lot to explore everywhere, and a lot of the treasures you can find are quite useful. It's more interesting than a straight linear dungeon for sure, and some places in the game you even have multiple dungeons linked together.
But the way the maze-like structure stretches out across huge areas via very long hallways, it's so hard to maintain an overview of where you've been and where you haven't, that I simply give up on trying to explore fully. Something like an automap to cover where you've been (really just functioning like a zoomed out top-down view) would have gone a long way to improve the game, but that would require them to implement something Dragon Quest hasn't already done.

It's also really boring that the game essentially has three invididual dungeon types, repeated ad nauseam. There's the (especially ubiquitous) cave, the tower, and the  much rarer underwater maze. Not only is the exact same tileset and music reused for each instance of each of those, but also the same overall approach to dungeon design, which means every time you need to explore yet another cave, you're just met with the feeling of having to go through a completely similar experience again and again.

The game still does some things well like I mentioned above, but overall Lufia is a really tough recommendation, not due to the things it doesn't do, but the things it does wrong.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Sumez

[MagusSmurf | 577]

Finished Metal Slader Glory. It’s a Japanese adventure/visual novel and is the largest Famicom cartridge. Making this thing almost bankrupted HAL and in exchange for rescuing them Nintendo made them put Iwata in charge because they liked him. There’s also a Super Famicom version that was the final game released for the console but that’s not been translated yet.

FOR THE MOST PART progression is fairly streamlined and it’s hard to get stuck. For me, this is probably for the best; my tolerance for adventure games being overly cryptic is low. But if we’re not really here for the puzzles, then the presentation and story need to pick up the slack.

The former does its part admirably enough. It’s got pretty good visuals and is nice in a “the NES can do this? Huh, neat” kind of way. It...seems like the poor developers could have saved a lot of hassle by just not making this for the Famicom, especially since they didn’t get it out until 1991, but that’s hindsight for you. And If they hadn’t, I guess it would’t have achieved what minor historical notability it has.

The story though? Nah. It’s a sci-fi setting with giant robots and I’m always up for that but you spend the first like couple hours getting the runaround by bureaucracy with not much happening or being learned. Pacing issues and slow beginnings aren’t uncommon in this genre but when things go well there’s enough actual content and development to make them seem worth it or even justified. Metal Slader Glory just doesn’t last long enough for that; the “slow” section is almost half the game and the entire thing is maybe 6 hours long.

The second half(ish) is better in that the game actually tells you what’s going on and things feel important. There’s a pretty effective “what the hell just happened?” moment that marks the transition. Still not really “good” overall though. There are also some segments where it changes the interface up, including with actual gameplay, but these aren”t executed well. By the time these ended I kind of wished they hadn’t bothered. There seems to be some minor path branching in the story but it all winds up at the same place anyways.

This all could have gone down much better if the characters and their interaction were good. Unfortunately the main character is somehow both boring and hits on every woman he meets, his girlfriend nags at him for this, his little sister is brainless, and there are lots of stale pervert and siscon “jokes.”

In conclusion if you want an old game kind of like this but definitely better go play Snatcher instead. 4/10

tl;dr grown man rants about 30-year old game having bad story.

Edited June 16, 2021 by MagusSmurf

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

Psychonauts done!

I loved it. The writing, voice acting, and level design are all amazing. The controls can be a bit wonky and imprecise, but I only found it to be an issue during the acrobatic portion of the final level. This has definitely become one of my all-time favorite 3D action platformers.

I'm very excited to see how Psychonauts 2 pans out.

I decided to go off list a bit with SM64 for Switch and The Messenger since it's leaving Game Pass soon. Enjoying both of them so far.