Game Debate #1: Goldeneye

[Reed Rothchild | 9,641]

Master thread here

[guitarzombie | 929]

10 for me easily.  I bought an N64 and only had this game and Perfect Dark when I was in HS.  Loved it.  Perfect Dark is a 'better' game cuz it has more to di, but just so many great memories of Goldeneye and looking at Wouter Jansens speed runs in 1998/99 with my friend, looking at TERRIBLE quicktime videos going HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO THAT?!

[Gloves | 11,891]

Yeah easy 10. I'll happily play it any time, and for a long time each time.

[guitarzombie | 929]

Still to THIS DAY I know most of the same routes I took in order to get the cheats and I can't play the game without strafing.  My major critique of the game that I wish they implemented was a randomizer switch you could turn on to keep the game fresh.  For example the CCTV tape could be in different spots, or different guards could have the safe key.  Stuff like that.  That stuff is really easy to program in, but I wish more games had that option, else you lose the 'essence' of what makes the game so fun IMO.  Then you're just playing it the same way with the same route over and over.

[DefaultGen | 5,506]

10 for me and I'll take any chance I can get to complain about a console FPS. I love the objectives and level design, and that harder difficulties mean you have to do more spy shit. As far as I remember it's very faithful to the movie and every level completely flows into the next. I can play through the campaign any day and have a blast. I don't get anyone complaining about it being old, because there's so little competition in this nonlinear objective-filled level style of FPS, I guess Perfect Dark and Timesplitters 2?

[peg | 380]

0/10, unplayable garbage by today's standards (which is really something).  Are we rating them based on playability today or back in the old days?  t was a blurry, laughable mess even back when it was new.

 

In retrospect I probably should have voted it a 1, because Zelda 64 is also a game that exists in this timeline.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,638]

Never got around to playing it, but it seems pretty fun from what I have seen. I won't submit my score since it doesn't exactly mean much on account of the fact I, like I said, haven't played it, but it'd probably be a 7 or an 8 from me. FPS games have gone through a lot of innovations since this one came out, but it still seems like it'd be really fun to go back and play.

[ookii_risu | 206]

Not interested in playing it. Wasn't my kind of game back then, and even now I wouldn't be able to get into it because of how it looks. I've never even owned an N64. Played Mario 64 at a friend's place.

[OptOut | 8,895]

Ha ha ha, how are we sure that @peg hasn't been replaced by a sophisticated @peg-meme algorithm? At this point scientists can no longer be sure, the above response was a FLAWLESS simulation of a crusty old git!

 

 

As for the game: TEN OUT OF TEN, PER-LEAASSSSSEEEEE! How can anything else compare, 64 or otherwise?!

[Omerta | 47]

This was a day one buy for me when it was originally released. I loved it, played the hell out of it, killed 006 on the Cradle long before the twat king killed him on Game of Thrones, I Gamesharked it, and have wonderful multiplayer memories of it.

The problem is that modern games have ruined my ability to play an FPS on anything but a twin stick controller or a keyboard and mouse. So this one is really difficult to go back to when I start flipping through N64 carts.

[zeppelin03 | 314]

10. Great game still today.  I am comfortable using the c buttons along with the stick for movement so that has never been an issue.  I've tried the control scheme where you use two controllers for dual analog but couldn't get into that.

[Nostalgic Machine | 27]

Very easily a 10/10 game, and one of the few that are genuinely worthy of that praise IMHO.

Plus, the speed running community continues to blow me away, most of the time, with this particular game.

[RH | 5,013]

Yeah, I'm sorry but those that hate on the game because you lost your edge with an N64 controller need to take a step back and a deep breath. If you feel the graphics and gameplay "haven't aged well", then make that argument but the controls were perfect for what is now panned as a bad control design but debating the N64 controller can be left for a different discussion.

This was the first multiplayer blockbuster FPS. Not only did they make a great game with the limitations of the N64, they crafted what became the gold standard of multiplayer FPS design for years to come.

It is unfortunate that to really appreciate GoldenEye, you have to re-learn how to play an N64 FPS game since the controls are so different from today's FPS games. If you want to appreciate GoldenEye, you have to learn how to use the controls and then evaluate the game. At the time of it's release, none of us had muscle-memory from using two analog sticks so it was a revolutionary experience but also easy enough to pick up and learn to play. Don't fault the past for future design improvements when they weren't possible 25 years ago.

11/10, if it were possible.

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by RH

[MeganJoanne | 365]

Oops, thought it said movie...that's what happens when you go into a topic still half asleep (having just woke up 10 minutes ago) and vote. 9/10 for the movie, don't know about the game. Anyway, killer fucking game... I guess. It was popular so I can only assume it was as great as most claimed it to be.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

Meh. 4/10. Doesn't even crack top 30 N64 games for me, for two reasons:

1. With N64, I mostly played single player games. Goldeneye single player is not very fun.

2. When I did play multiplayer games, it was with my wrestling buddies, which means we mostly played the WCW and WWF games. We'd also play Mario Kart and the Mario Party games, as well as Goldeneye, but Goldeneye was my least favorite. And it's not bias against FPS. Half Life is one of my favorite games of all time.

[Omerta | 47]

Yeah, I'm sorry but those that are into controller-shaming need to take a step back and a deep breath.

I never said I hated the game. In fact, it was quite the opposite.

Yes, in a perfect 1997-98 vacuum the game is great, highly acclaimed, and the control scheme was fine. So if you want to remove time and controller factors, then yeah throw up 11/10 or whatever number greater than ten that you feel justifies your enthusiasm.

But right now, if I'm playing Goldeneye, it would require me to spend the extra time and effort to re-learn what used to be the standard. It's kind of a pain in the ass for a decent game that doesn't quite have the same luster anymore (I know, I've done it in the past couple of years). If it's either that or play something else that's more familiar, I'll likely follow the path of least resistance and play something else. With 20+ more years of game libraries to choose from (and everything before it), I'd say that "5/10 - It's okay, but maybe not something you'll go out of your way to play" fits this sentiment quite well.

It's kind of similar to when someone says that they almost exclusively play shmups over their beloved RPGs because they're easier to pick up and play.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,641]

7 hours ago, peg said:

Are we rating them based on playability today or back in the old days?

I tried to word the ratings so that it's a combination of the two.

[RH | 5,013]

12 minutes ago, Omerta said:

Yeah, I'm sorry but those that are into controller-shaming need to take a step back and a deep breath.

I never said I hated the game. In fact, it was quite the opposite.

Yes, in a perfect 1997-98 vacuum the game is great, highly acclaimed, and the control scheme was fine. So if you want to remove time and controller factors, then yeah throw up 11/10 or whatever number greater than ten that you feel justifies your enthusiasm.

But right now, if I'm playing Goldeneye, it would require me to spend the extra time and effort to re-learn what used to be the standard. It's kind of a pain in the ass for a decent game that doesn't quite have the same luster anymore (I know, I've done it in the past couple of years). If it's either that or play something else that's more familiar, I'll likely follow the path of least resistance and play something else. With 20+ more years of game libraries to choose from (and everything before it), I'd say that "5/10 - It's okay, but maybe not something you'll go out of your way to play" fits this sentiment quite well.

It's kind of similar to when someone says that they almost exclusively play shmups over their beloved RPGs because they're easier to pick up and play.

Dang man... If your gonna try to burn like that, at least pass the aloe vera!

But to your point, yes preferences do change but I also think that when evaluating GoldenEye, just like any older game, there is a bit historical context checking that's required. Even with any discussion someone might have started about a shift in preference to shmups, the truth is my opinions on all of the RPGs I've played still stand. I may prefer shmups today but given an infinite amount of free time, I'm sure I'd return back to all of those old games from the PSX era and play them all. But, I don't have 30k hours to burn for my RPG back log, so I have had to choose to let go of RPGs just to enjoy more games.

Yeah, I have had a shift in preference but it also doesn't change my rating opinions on older games just because I don't have time to play them, or in the case of GoldenEye, they aren't as easy to pick up and play as they use to be. After 20+ years of dualshocks and the like, today there is an added layer to the equation that did not exist in the mid-90s when playing GoldenEye or many of the FPSs on the N64.  I personally think it's unfair to not factor that into the equation. It's a good game, worth playing by any gamer but you also need to know what you are getting into and if you are heavy into FPSs, your going to have to do what you do with any new, innovative game and adjust to the controller scheme.

[Omerta | 47]

10 minutes ago, RH said:

Dang man... If your gonna try to burn like that, at least pass the aloe vera!

It's all playful tongue-in-cheek with me. I haven't posted much on these boards for people to get a solid read on my sense of humor. I saw a finger wagging at me in your other post, so I figured I'd flip a little dirt back at ya.

I think the difference in opinion here lies in what you and I value in grading criteria. You put more weight into a historical approach and I'm lumping it in with everything that ever existed in today's world.

[noiseredux | 232]

I haven't actually played the original game since 1997, and that was pretty much all multiplayer, so I feel like I can't accurately pick a number.

But sub-question - I've never been able to clarify if the Wii game is an actual remake of the single player from the original game, or if it was just like one level remade, or what?

[RH | 5,013]

21 minutes ago, Omerta said:

It's all playful tongue-in-cheek with me. I haven't posted much on these boards for people to get a solid read on my sense of humor. I saw a finger wagging at me in your other post, so I figured I'd flip a little dirt back at ya.

I think the difference in opinion here lies in what you and I value in grading criteria. You put more weight into a historical approach and I'm lumping it in with everything that ever existed in today's world.

No harm, no foul.  I just awoke a bit feisty this morning and I've been having a bit of fun on here.  Definitely not trying to offend anyone either.  And truth be told, you or anyone can hate GoldenEye.  I'd debate you on how you'd be absolutely wrong, but I won't get angry about it.  At the end of the day, these are just vidja games.

[Omerta | 47]

13 minutes ago, noiseredux said:

But sub-question - I've never been able to clarify if the Wii game is an actual remake of the single player from the original game, or if it was just like one level remade, or what?

Never played the Wii version but it sounds like it's a fairly loose remake. Daniel Craig is Bond instead of Pierce Brosnan. The maps aren't necessarily the same. There's a different-ish story.

https://kotaku.com/goldeneye-for-wii-is-a-remake-with-some-asterisks-5564445

The PS3 version came out a little later. It looks like it was pretty much a beefier version of the Wii game.

[RH | 5,013]

 

First, I'm surprised that so many people actually feel that GoldenEye was great strictly because of multiplayer.  Granted, it definitely elevated the status of the game because it proved that a really good FPS on a console was viable in that sad era where we were each given about 75 vertical scanlines of visibility.  There was a lot to squeeze in two regions of gameplay, much less 4 and Rare did it.  Even on its own though, GoldenEye was a great single player game.  I loved the varying degrees of difficulty that didn't just give the enemy AI better aim and restrict your health.  The added objectives were excellent.  I liked how it was rather faithful to the game.  I actually purchased and played GoldenEye through many times before seeing the film.  That was trip and made the experience better.  I think that's why I'm willing to give it a 10/10.  To me, it was the definition of an excellent game that was also groundbreaking.  Even if it's aged and you have to learn/relearn how to play it, it's worth pushing through that barrier for at least the historical experience and appreciation of what we have today because of this game.

26 minutes ago, noiseredux said:

I haven't actually played the original game since 1997, and that was pretty much all multiplayer, so I feel like I can't accurately pick a number.

But sub-question - I've never been able to clarify if the Wii game is an actual remake of the single player from the original game, or if it was just like one level remade, or what?

You know, I bought the Wii version shortly after it came out so I could both play GoldenEye AND get the killer golden controller.  I still have it and proudly prefer that controller whenever I play on the Wii and it's an option.  Regarding the levels, though... I never finished the game and I don't remember.  I think I got to the facility and bailed for other games.  I think I should give it another try.  I don't remember it being bad... just not great.  I do, however, remember it was following the movie and at least the start up scene transition was reminiscent of the original.  However, this game wasn't made by Rare so they couldn't blatantly rip off the OG GoldenEye 64, otherwise they would have been sued, I suppose.

[glazball | 175]

Killer fucking game.  My friends and I used to play the game so much, we said we would become "goldeneyed" after staring at the screen for so long.

[Scrobins | 1,748]

If modern FPS games stand tall, it’s because they stand on the shoulders of games like Goldeneye.

@MeganJoanne I hope Reed does bring the Bond movies into the movie threads, because I am a big fan!