Game Debate #192: Diddy Kong Racing

[Reed Rothchild | 9,558]

[OptOut | 8,889]

F'in awesome game! One of the best games on N64, and a standout Rareware contribution. I know this is going to divulge into a shitstorm of DKR vs. MK64 so I'm going to get my say in early:

DKR = better single-player, course variety, adventure mode, vehicle selection (Hovercraft FTW!!!!), unlocks, bosses etc.

MK64 = better multi-player, course design, race-fundamentals and handling, weapons.

I can't REALLY pick between them because they each excel in areas the other doesn't, I think they are both FANTASTIC games, and I wouldn't be happy giving up either. I think overall though, pound for pound, Diddy Kong Racing just offers so much more than MK64, even if I would argue that the actual RACING aspect of MK64 feels better than DKR.

So, I guess chalk up the first DKR notch on the leaderboard.

[Foochie776 | 1,057]

Super fun, I always liked the multiplayer more. Music was super catchy and the levels are arguably better than MK but MK always takes the W for me in terms of kart racers. 

[Sumez | 2,969]

I feel kinda bad giving it such a low vote, but I tried playing the game for the "Survivor" event thing going on on this forum a while ago, and it's just completely unplayable.

 

I remember seeing my cousin playing it when it was new, and I thought it looked so cool. a Mario Kart style racer, except based around an adventure mode with a lot of cool things to do and find. It's appealing for sure.

But man, the framerate and input lag just straight up ruins the game - for a racing game especially it's just completely impossible to control, and by the time you see stuff you're supposed to react to, it's already too late to react.

I've only tried it on N64, but I've heard from a friend that even playing the game on an emulator with a solid framerate, it just ends up feeling equally unplayable, because the game was designed with the abysmal performance in mind.

I guess this is a great example of a game that's desperately in need of a modern port, giving it a solid overhaul to make it playable at 60fps like it deserves. So does Mario Kart 64 btw.

At least Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed exists.

Edited February 22 by Sumez

[Mega Tank | 967]

3 minutes ago, Sumez said:

completely unplayable

5 minutes ago, Sumez said:

completely impossible to control

I don't think I've ever heard anyone call this game "completely unplayable" before. "Completely impossible to control"... if this is truly the case for you, then something must be wrong with your game, set up, or you just need to get good. 

[Rhuno | 108]

DKR is great! My friends and I had a blast playing this and Mario Kart 64. I've played it again recently with my son and it's still a lot of fun.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

I got the vhs preview from Nintendo power back in the day and thought it was gonna be cool. Played it on once as a rental and never went back. I was never a fan of mk64 either. I jumped to ps1 on this generation. 
 

Wave race, oot, doom 64 and no mercy that is all.

[Kguillemette | 1,546]

My favorite kart racer ever, and I love kart racers. 10/10. 

[RH | 4,928]

Jeez, I'm realizing I own two different versions of this game and I can play it 4x different ways--I own it for the N64, the DS and I can either emulate on my PC or play it on the Switch.

And I just can't get into the game.  Now, Banjo Kazooie was one of my favorite platforms on the system and I never could personally choose if I liked it better than Mario 64, or not.  So Rare knew how to make great games, especially platform-like games, for the N64.

But I think my personal problem with this game is because when I pick up a "racing" game, I want it to be about racing.  Period.  Maybe this is a super fun racer with friends but being I've never had a chance to play this multi-player, then I'll admit that I can't factor this in.  But I've played this game a few times, finished the first few objectives and I either find myself wanting to play MK64 to actually race, or play SM64/Banjo-Kazooie to platform game, but I don't want to do both in one game.

[Gloves | 11,801]

21 minutes ago, RH said:

Jeez, I'm realizing I own two different versions of this game and I can play it 4x different ways--I own it for the N64, the DS and I can either emulate on my PC or play it on the Switch.

And I just can't get into the game.  Now, Banjo Kazooie was one of my favorite platforms on the system and I never could personally choose if I liked it better than Mario 64, or not.  So Rare knew how to make great games, especially platform-like games, for the N64.

But I think my personal problem with this game is because when I pick up a "racing" game, I want it to be about racing.  Period.  Maybe this is a super fun racer with friends but being I've never had a chance to play this multi-player, then I'll admit that I can't factor this in.  But I've played this game a few times, finished the first few objectives and I either find myself wanting to play MK64 to actually race, or play SM64/Banjo-Kazooie to platform game, but I don't want to do both in one game.

I'm not sure I understand... It's a racing game... You race in it, almost exclusively. It has a loose story and a sort of hub world to tie it all together, but you're not platforming or anything. Beyond that if you hate the hub there's a straight up "pick a level to race in" mode. 

[RH | 4,928]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

I'm not sure I understand... It's a racing game... You race in it, almost exclusively. It has a loose story and a sort of hub world to tie it all together, but you're not platforming or anything. Beyond that if you hate the hub there's a straight up "pick a level to race in" mode. 

Maybe so, but I feel like it pushes you at the beginning to objectives.  And I do understand that it's not a true platformer in the since that you run around, hop on "platforms" and such, but it's hard to specifically define the addition.

Simply put, I don't want that extra stuff.  And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought what I experienced was that at least some of those tracks are not available to just race in until they were unlocked. Now, if it only takes 30 minutes to unlock everything, maybe I should give it a second chance.  But I don't want to have to play a game to get to the full main content of racing.  Correct me if I'm wrong because when  I plugged in both version of the game for the first time, I think that was the first thing I tried to do was go look for places to just race.

[Gloves | 11,801]

15 minutes ago, RH said:

Maybe so, but I feel like it pushes you at the beginning to objectives.  And I do understand that it's not a true platformer in the since that you run around, hop on "platforms" and such, but it's hard to specifically define the addition.

Simply put, I don't want that extra stuff.  And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought what I experienced was that at least some of those tracks are not available to just race in until they were unlocked. Now, if it only takes 30 minutes to unlock everything, maybe I should give it a second chance.  But I don't want to have to play a game to get to the full main content of racing.  Correct me if I'm wrong because when  I plugged in both version of the game for the first time, I think that was the first thing I tried to do was go look for places to just race.

Ok I just tossed it in and checked, and yeah - you do have to play the Adventure Mode to unlock tracks in the other mode. I've probably just never noticed this was the case because of course when I pop in DKR I go straight to beating Adventure Mode because it's great.

That said, in the Adventure Mode you literally can get straight into racing. Yes, there's boss races, and after beating a boss you need to beat their levels again and collect coins while doing so, but that's just extra challenge - race so well that slight detours for coins don't impact your ability to win.

I guess it can't be for everyone, to the point that some people even delude themselves into thinking the game controls poorly (lol), but I can at least understand where you're coming from even if to me it doesn't feel like a big deal (in fact it feels like a huge bonus).

[TDIRunner | 2,746]

I've never tried this one, but I have not had good luck getting into kart racers that are not Mario Kart.  I've tried the Crash racing series, and the Sonic racing series, and I just can't get into either of those.  I know that isn't a good reason to not try this game, but there are so many other games I want to play and I feel like when it comes to scratching the kart racing itch, I'm set with the Mario Kart series.  

[Sumez | 2,969]

3 hours ago, Mega Tank said:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone call this game "completely unplayable" before

Eh, expecting more than 5 frames per second from a racing game isn't exactly rare  

[RH | 4,928]

6 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Ok I just tossed it in and checked, and yeah - you do have to play the Adventure Mode to unlock tracks in the other mode. I've probably just never noticed this was the case because of course when I pop in DKR I go straight to beating Adventure Mode because it's great.

That said, in the Adventure Mode you literally can get straight into racing. Yes, there's boss races, and after beating a boss you need to beat their levels again and collect coins while doing so, but that's just extra challenge - race so well that slight detours for coins don't impact your ability to win.

I guess it can't be for everyone, to the point that some people even delude themselves into thinking the game controls poorly (lol), but I can at least understand where you're coming from even if to me it doesn't feel like a big deal (in fact it feels like a huge bonus).

Well, maybe I didn't do a good job but I actually didn't want my post(s) to feel like a "MK64 > DK64" post but instead, post what doesn't appeal to me about the game and why I never really got into it.  The fact is, had the game came out maybe one year earlier and I played it as a kid, my opinion would be different but since I never tried it until I was in my late-20s, I reached a point where generally speaking, I either play a game for a specific genre cause that's the mode I'm in OR, in some cases, there are old, linear multi-format games (like NES platformers with integrated shmup sections) and that's what I want to play.

In fact, I'd say there is a chance that I would like this game more if I had nostalgia.  From time to time I still love popping in Star Wars: SOTE and it's literally 3 different types of games--3d shmup, 3d platforming and pseudo-racing.  I love that game... but if I first played it within the last 10-15 years, I'd probably also way it's not for me.

[Gloves | 11,801]

2 minutes ago, RH said:

Well, maybe I didn't do a good job but I actually didn't want my post(s) to feel like a "MK64 > DK64" post but instead, post what doesn't appeal to me about the game and why I never really got into it.  The fact is, had the game came out maybe one year earlier and I played it as a kid, my opinion would be different but since I never tried it until I was in my late-20s, I reached a point where generally speaking, I either play a game for a specific genre cause that's the mode I'm in OR, in some cases, there are old, linear multi-format games (like NES platformers with integrated shmup sections) and that's what I want to play.

In fact, I'd say there is a chance that I would like this game more if I had nostalgia.  From time to time I still love popping in Star Wars: SOTE and it's literally 3 different types of games--3d shmup, 3d platforming and pseudo-racing.  I love that game... but if I first played it within the last 10-15 years, I'd probably also way it's not for me.

I'm in a similar boat - I enjoy SOTE, but man it'd be tough without the nostalgia to enjoy it. If nostalgia does play a part in me enjoying DKR (I'm sure it does) then I'm glad I have that nostalgia, cuz I consider it still enjoyable enough that I play it at least once a year without hesitation.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,558]

3 hours ago, Sumez said:

need of a modern port

It does have a DS port

[Gloves | 11,801]

8 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Eh, expecting more than 5 frames per second from a racing game isn't exactly rare  

The game runs at a constant 15-20, sometimes hitting 30, and mostly hovering around 18-19 fps. Which is entirely playable and completely normal for an N64 game - I've beaten all of the Rare record times on all of the tracks without issue. I've only seen it dip below 15 fps on 4 player mode, and even then is still hovers at 16-17 or higher.

[wongojack | 217]

The game was just not made for me.  Diddy Kong is not a character that I give two sh!+s about or even know anything about.  I do know Donkey Kong Jr.  Is this him?

This game just SCREAMS shovelware cash grab for kids to me.  It could be good, but the box art, genre, everything just screams "stay away."

 

I'm more excited for the Pitfall vs River Raid option.  Both of those games are in my personal favorite 2600 games of all time, but the less popular one is probably the better game for 2024.

[Gloves | 11,801]

54 minutes ago, wongojack said:

The game was just not made for me.  Diddy Kong is not a character that I give two sh!+s about or even know anything about.  I do know Donkey Kong Jr.  Is this him?

Diddy is Donkey Kong's (from DKC) nephew. The original Donkey Kong is Cranky, and Donkey Kong from DKC is Cranky's grandson.

[Gloves | 11,801]

1 hour ago, wongojack said:

This game just SCREAMS shovelware cash grab for kids to me.  It could be good, but the box art, genre, everything just screams "stay away."

Oh and you're absolutely insane calling this game shovelware lol. It's a top 10 game for the console easily.

[Brickman | 4,000]

8 hours ago, Mega Tank said:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone call this game "completely unplayable" before. "Completely impossible to control"... if this is truly the case for you, then something must be wrong with your game, set up, or you just need to get good. 

He is definitely smoking something. Never heard that before about this game. Usually it’s the opposite, people saying how smooth it handles.

7 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Oh and you're absolutely insane calling this game shovelware lol. It's a top 10 game for the console easily.

Gloves deflecting these trolls like a pro! 

10 for me but I do know some of that is nostalgia and that’s ok. It’s probably a 9 kind of game but growing up with this game it has additional memories.

You obviously can’t bring up this game without bringing up MK64 and I do think OptOut did a good summary with his post.

DKR does have a fun multiplayer though. I know because my friends and me played it for hours and hours just like MK64. Yes MK64 does probably have the slightly better multiplayer but DKR is still enjoyable multiplayer.

Go play MK64 again and see how bad the fog is on that game and the rubber banding is atrocious. The kart handling is also a lot worse than DKR even with the power slide. I find MK64 single player almost unplayable these days. Whereas DKR still feels great and handles well.

DKR Adventure mode FTW.

[Gloves | 11,801]

Something that always turned me off about MK64 and that I really believe is an elevating factor for DKR by comparison is that MK uses sprites for character models (and items and other stuff). It's a very flat feeling game in a lot of places. DKR uses full 3D models for the characters and IMO it really brings a depth to them which I feel MK64 lacks. Beyond that, IMO the graphics as a whole are much more vibrant - it's an incredibly pleasant game to look at.

AND THE MUSIC! DKR kick's MK64's ass with in the audio department. MK's music is very background-y, whereas I'll happily pull up the DKR soundtrack just to listen to it and bob along. Whenever I play the game I whistle with the tunes until my mouth damn near hurts cuz I'll play through the whole game twice in one sitting and just vibe to the absolute banger OST.

[Sumez | 2,969]

5 hours ago, Gloves said:

The game runs at a constant 15-20, sometimes hitting 30, and mostly hovering around 18-19 fps. Which is entirely playable and completely normal for an N64 game - I've beaten all of the Rare record times on all of the tracks without issue. I've only seen it dip below 15 fps on 4 player mode, and even then is still hovers at 16-17 or higher.

How did you measure that?

The game doesn't feel close to 20 to me, but even then 15 is pretty damn unacceptable for a racing game  

Look, I really tried, I was really looking forward to finally playing this game, and wanted to love it. But the game just didn't want me to play it. I think it's crazy trying to make excuses for how this game performs  

22 minutes ago, Brickman said:

Usually it’s the opposite, people saying how smooth it handles.

[fox | 1,668]

Another Kart Klone

It’s cool that you can race land, sea, and air.  But everything else about it feels really uninteresting from characters to weapons to tracks.

Adventure mode is a nice addition, but it is ruined with busy work filler like the silver coins challenge, which rehashes the same content just to pad things out.

Edited February 22 by fox