Game Debate #188: Assassin's Creed

[fox | 1,667]

#LetsGoBarrySteakfries

[Sumez | 2,951]

12 hours ago, Brickman said:

But give it another 10-15 years and the majority of 5 year olds of today will look at Assassins Creed and think it is so archaic and retro.

Maybe, but again that has nothing to do with years. It's something that happens whenever new mainstream games coming out stop being mostly just like Assassins Creed. 

[Sumez | 2,951]

11 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

We're already in the postmodern gaming era.  Now you experience games entirely through memes, tiktok, and live streamers.  It's a bold new frontier.  Actually playing games is for boomers.

Not even kidding. Games doing meta stuff has been all the rage since at least Undertale. To me, Braid was the game to really kick off videogame postmodernism though

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

19 hours ago, Link said:

 

Ya know... they say once something is on the internet, it's there forever. And lately more and more, I've been finding that's not true. Any time I want to find some shit I saw online 20 years ago, it's just nowhere to be found. The Wayback Machine is a noble effort, but often doesn't have what I'm looking for. And right now I'm looking for just such a thing. Anyway, 

[img] laptop the size of a briefcase, with two very long hinges dot jpeg [/img]

That's happened to me numerous times as well.  A lot of stuff from the '90's internet era is either gone or extremely difficult to track down a quarter of a century later...

[Richardhead | 2,813]

These old games bore me.

10/10

[koifish | 556]

On 1/26/2024 at 10:50 AM, Sumez said:

Yes the x360/ps3 generation was a super short and uneventful with absolutely no influential games that would impact everything to come, due to their immense popularity XD

it sounds like a joke but I honestly am drawing a blank. Demon's Souls was influential...sort of. Were there other games? So much of 7th is forgotten to me now.

[koifish | 556]

Never played or even saw AC1 be played. I remember friends calling it "Assassins Can't Swim" and then the sequel came out and they called that "Only Assassins Can Swim".

Can't say I have even seen this game and can't say I care to. Never/Never vote for me.

[Gloves | 11,778]

16 minutes ago, koifish said:

it sounds like a joke but I honestly am drawing a blank. Demon's Souls was influential...sort of. Were there other games? So much of 7th is forgotten to me now.

 

A small, non-exhaustive list of Gen 7 bangers.

• GTA 5
• Uncharted
• Oblivion + Skyrim
• The Last of Us
• Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2
• Mass Effect
• Bioshock
• Fallout 3 + NV
• LittleBigPlanet
• Batman: Arkham Series
• Metal Gear Solid 4 (and V)
• Hotline Miami
• Burnout Paradise
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 1-3, World at War, Black Ops
• Dead Space 1 & 2
• Wolfenstein
• TellTale series (e.g. Walking Dead, Wolf Among Us, others)
• Street Fighter 4
• Persona 5

 

The list goes on. Gen 7 was phenomenal.

 

[Brickman | 3,986]

18 minutes ago, Gloves said:

 

A small, non-exhaustive list of Gen 7 bangers.

• GTA 5
• Uncharted
• Oblivion + Skyrim
• The Last of Us
• Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2
• Mass Effect
• Bioshock
• Fallout 3 + NV
• LittleBigPlanet
• Batman: Arkham Series
• Metal Gear Solid 4 (and V)
• Hotline Miami
• Burnout Paradise
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 1-3, World at War, Black Ops
• Dead Space 1 & 2
• Wolfenstein
• TellTale series (e.g. Walking Dead, Wolf Among Us, others)
• Street Fighter 4
• Persona 5

 

The list goes on. Gen 7 was phenomenal.

 

And the crazy thing is you’re barely scratching the surface. And if we also include PC games or digital only games the list just explodes.

The 360/PS3/Wii era basically made the foundation of what games are today. Whether people like that direction is a personal opinion but I love the 7th gen era.

Edited January 31 by Brickman

[Gloves | 11,778]

6 minutes ago, Brickman said:

And the crazy thing is you’re barely scratching the surface. And if we also include PC games or digital only games the list just explodes.

The 360/PS3/Wii era basically made the foundation of what games are today. Whether people like that direction is a personal opinion but I love the 7th gen era.

Yeah those are just the really popular titles, for the most part. This is basically ignoring indies, and anything that didn't land specifically on PS3 (I didn't have an Xbox).

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

When it first came out, it was pretty awesome.  I spent the time grinding out every last hidden flag and all the extra crap, but by the end of it I found it to be a bit of a slog.  I'd say it's a 7/10.  Good game, interesting story, but lacks that special something that would make it truly great.

[rdrunner | 422]

14 hours ago, Gloves said:

A small, non-exhaustive list of Gen 7 bangers.

• GTA 5
• Uncharted
• Oblivion + Skyrim
• The Last of Us
• Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2
• Mass Effect
• Bioshock
• Fallout 3 + NV
• LittleBigPlanet
• Batman: Arkham Series
• Metal Gear Solid 4 (and V)
• Hotline Miami
• Burnout Paradise
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 1-3, World at War, Black Ops
• Dead Space 1 & 2
• Wolfenstein
• TellTale series (e.g. Walking Dead, Wolf Among Us, others)
• Street Fighter 4
• Persona 5

 

The list goes on. Gen 7 was phenomenal.

 

Yup, just confirmed that I must not be a "true" gen 7 gamer.  Out of this whole list I only own SF4 and the first Batman, neither of which I've spent any real time on yet.

I do have a whole bunch of Xbox 360 games, but I just steer away from the big ones due to time constraints.

[koifish | 556]

On 1/31/2024 at 3:23 PM, Brickman said:

The 360/PS3/Wii era basically made the foundation of what games are today. Whether people like that direction is a personal opinion but I love the 7th gen era.

An apt description of why I don't care about most of that list. Some of those entries in particular are on my list of games I personally detest, in fact. I am sure there are some things here and there that I like, and am forgetting, but overwhelmingly it was the period that taught me to stop liking new video games. 8th gen was the nail in the coffin, but 7th was the setup (the 6th gen desperate attempts to appeal to boys who wanted every game to be GTA didn't help).

I recalled some, while thinking, that I liked. Tokyo Jungle was good, Lost Planet 2 is in my top 10, 7th did finally bring a fortune street game to the west. Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket Powered Battle Cars was on PS3 for years before it grew into Rocket League. Otherwise I don't remember much, ignoring the DS of course. Now that was a system I loved.

[koifish | 556]

On 1/24/2024 at 8:53 AM, Reed Rothchild said:

(in before someone calls a 17-year-old game "modern")

If you think that's bad, wait until you hear about New England.

[Brickman | 3,986]

1 hour ago, koifish said:

An apt description of why I don't care about most of that list. Some of those entries in particular are on my list of games I personally detest, in fact. I am sure there are some things here and there that I like, and am forgetting, but overwhelmingly it was the period that taught me to stop liking new video games. 8th gen was the nail in the coffin, but 7th was the setup (the 6th gen desperate attempts to appeal to boys who wanted every game to be GTA didn't help).

I recalled some, while thinking, that I liked. Tokyo Jungle was good, Lost Planet 2 is in my top 10, 7th did finally bring a fortune street game to the west. Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket Powered Battle Cars was on PS3 for years before it grew into Rocket League. Otherwise I don't remember much, ignoring the DS of course. Now that was a system I loved.

Yeah that’s up to one’s personal choice and opinion. 

We were just letting you know that there are a lot of influential 7th gen games because you said you were drawing a blank.

[koifish | 556]

15 hours ago, Brickman said:

Yeah that’s up to one’s personal choice and opinion. 

We were just letting you know that there are a lot of influential 7th gen games because you said you were drawing a blank.

Indeed! I am confused though; i don't know if they are really influential. Games like GTA5 made a lot of money, but were iterative of previous games. Rockstar is largely still making bigger versions of GTA3. I guess the period is influential in that it made games more of a leisurely subject to finish story mode. What other major influences came about because of 7th gen? Maye its just my memory failing me again, but as I recall (and looking at that list) it's mainly iterative of 6th gen, aside from the aforementioned making games easier. Cementing online systems as the standard also comes to mind, as does games dying to End of Service. Curious what else sticks out for influence in that period. Motion controls were important for VR to move onward. What else comes to mind?

[Reed Rothchild | 9,528]

One could argue that Minecraft and Dark Souls are the 2 most influential games in decades.

Modern Warfare created the tent pole FPS in it's current format.  The Indie and Roguelikes explosions owe a lot to Isaac.  Uncharted 2 and Arkham Asylum have directly influenced basically every action adventure game since.  Just a few off the top of my head. .

[Brickman | 3,986]

29 minutes ago, koifish said:

Indeed! I am confused though; i don't know if they are really influential. Games like GTA5 made a lot of money, but were iterative of previous games. Rockstar is largely still making bigger versions of GTA3. I guess the period is influential in that it made games more of a leisurely subject to finish story mode. What other major influences came about because of 7th gen? Maye its just my memory failing me again, but as I recall (and looking at that list) it's mainly iterative of 6th gen, aside from the aforementioned making games easier. Cementing online systems as the standard also comes to mind, as does games dying to End of Service. Curious what else sticks out for influence in that period. Motion controls were important for VR to move onward. What else comes to mind?

If you don’t play modern games you won’t see it or understand it. Reed has given great examples already.

Gen 7 laid the path for the indie scene we have today. Games like Minecraft, Braid, Super Meat Boy etc showed that you could make games with small teams and be hugely successful.

The Last of Us took story telling in games to a whole new level. 

Dead Space and Alan Wake helped revitalise a dying (or not doing so well) horror genre.

Fallout 3 and NV revitalised an old game and had influence on other games released afterwards.

Gears of War, Halo and MW are basically the architects of modern FPS games. It’s actually insane to think how influential MW is.

Wii sports. Well do I even need to explain that one 

The more I list the more I think that gen 7 is such a huge landmark in video game history that it is probably up there with the NES helping revitalising the home gaming market in the US.

[Kguillemette | 1,544]

3 hours ago, koifish said:

Indeed! I am confused though; i don't know if they are really influential. Games like GTA5 made a lot of money, but were iterative of previous games. Rockstar is largely still making bigger versions of GTA3. I guess the period is influential in that it made games more of a leisurely subject to finish story mode. What other major influences came about because of 7th gen? Maye its just my memory failing me again, but as I recall (and looking at that list) it's mainly iterative of 6th gen, aside from the aforementioned making games easier. Cementing online systems as the standard also comes to mind, as does games dying to End of Service. Curious what else sticks out for influence in that period. Motion controls were important for VR to move onward. What else comes to mind?

In addition to other points mentioned, 7th gen largely revitalized the side scroller after everything needed to be 3D in gen 5 and 6. 

[wongojack | 214]

Building on 7th gen rainbows . . . Xbox Live Arcade and by Wiiware made it so a low budget game could be released on a major console.  It was a revelation.  Then there was Xbox Live Indy Games which was like a whole console within a console and many of those designers have gone on to develop subsequent Indy darlings.

I'll also put a plug in for Bioware and Mass Effect.  They took on the incredibly stupid task of giving a player the ability to continue an RPG adventure across 3 games in a way that had never been done before.  It worked but was so difficult that it still really hasn't been attempted again in the same way.  I guess that makes it not very influential, but it was incredibly cool to be able to play your same character across 3 excellent games.

[koifish | 556]

It's incredibly disingenuous to say that 7th gen is what made small teams possible, given what teams looked like from the 70s into the new millennium. If anything, it's HD consoles that finally relegated them to the gaming equivalent of the straight-to-video movie, the life support keeping smaller or more niche games alive when "AAA" game budgets suddenly ballooned to absurd levels. Recall it was newsworthy in 2008 when MGS4 would need to sell 500k copies just to break even, an insane stat up until that point. Fairly certain games of similar bracket now, however, are so expensive that 500k units would be a failure. The success of various indie darlings, I feel, is more a testament to how the bigger additions made from those inflated budgets aren't worth the polys they're rendered in. I can at least credit the proliferation of easy to use devtools as a meaningful change, but that was just as valid on computers, even before 7th gen started, if you consider things like gamemaker and flash.

I suppose I can't speak much to the analysis of the influences of those games mentioned, because as you said, I don't play new games. I will have to take your word for it.

5 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

In addition to other points mentioned, 7th gen largely revitalized the side scroller after everything needed to be 3D in gen 5 and 6. 

true, Mario Bros Wii selling a crap ton of units certainly helped that. It being 20 years after the 80s also meant it was time to do "retro throwbacks" to NES games, so nostalgia cash-ins helped keep the spirit alive. And as you remind me now, SF4 did revive a very dormant fighting game market, though it was more just waking up from a long slumber of VF-like games since as you point out, it was 3D 3D 3D, and nothing else mattered for a while.

[Sumez | 2,951]

1 hour ago, koifish said:

It's incredibly disingenuous to say that 7th gen is what made small teams possible, given what teams looked like from the 70s into the new millennium

Before the 7th generation, that sort of indie games really hadn't been a prominent thing for at least the previous two generations, so I think it definitely has a lot of merit. 

From the PS1 generation on, there was an increasing focus on technology and "realism", and 2D games were heavily shunned by the industry and media alike. It really wasn't until the likes of xbox live arcade and such, that the general mainstream market was fully opened for games of such different styles just being viable stylistic choices, rather than judged on how well they utilised the platform's hardware.