Anyone here a flexitarian?

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

49 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Tofu has no estrogen in it. 

I think this was already established in later posts but it's a type of estrogen which the body can treat similarly to estrogen. I'd be curious to know if it doesn't have the effects I thought it did. Or at least the effects it was reported to have 10 years ago. Here's an article from Harvard, though this really just proves what has already been established, that' it's plant estrogen.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/#:~:text=Soy is unique in that,estrogenic or anti-estrogenic activity.

 

47 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

That being said though, we don't even need to look at studies to understand that tofu isn't harmful to people in such doses - if the estrogen was working wonders, why do Asian women mostly have small breasts?

 

I was under the impression an increased level of estrogen can cause an increase in testosterone in women, causing their breast sizes to decrease, similar to female bodybuilders taking steroids. I just looked for papers to verify that and I'm having trouble, maybe that's not true. That's interesting.

13 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Article from American Cancer Society about Soy:
https://www.cancer.org/cancer/latest-news/soy-and-cancer-risk-our-experts-advice.html
"So far, the evidence does not point to any dangers from eating soy in people, and the health benefits appear to outweigh any potential risk. In fact, there is growing evidence that eating traditional soy foods such as tofu, tempeh, edamame, miso, and soymilk may lower the risk of breast cancer, especially among Asian women. Soy foods are excellent sources of protein, especially when they replace other, less healthy foods such as animal fats and red or processed meats. Soy foods have been linked to lower rates of heart disease and may even help lower cholesterol."

American Institute for Cancer Research:
https://www.aicr.org/resources/blog/soy-and-cancer-myths-and-misconceptions/
"Myth: Eating soy foods raise your risk for breast cancer.  Fact: Soy foods are safe for women and provide fiber, a cancer-fighter."

Mayo Clinic: Will eating soy increase my risk of breast cancer?
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/soy-breast-cancer-risk/faq-20120377#:~:text=It was once thought that,tofu%2C soy milk and edamame.
"It was once thought that soy foods increase the risk of breast cancer. However, eating a moderate amount of soy foods does not increase risk of breast cancer — or other types of cancer. A moderate amount is one to two servings a day of whole-soy foods, such as tofu, soy milk and edamame."

National Library of Medicine Article: The Science of Soy: What Do We Really Know?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1480510/
Presents a more conservative analysis but board and inconclusive - prompts more research essentially.

Article: Tofu intake is inversely associated with risk of breast cancer: A meta-analysis of observational studies
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0226745
"our findings suggest an inverse dose-response association between tofu intake and risk of breast cancer"

I could go on and on, but it seems the concept of tofu giving you estrogen (in the ways we think of it) and causing negative health effects has vastly been debunked, and there are many benefits to increasing soy in one's diet, *especially* as a replacement for other types of proteins.

In my own personal situation, I eat a decent amount of tofu - sometimes several times a week - as I am vegetarian, and so far all the health effects of my diet have been very positive for me.

-----

Edit: I will add though, that it is always important for each person to talk with their doctor and/or other professionals about stuff like this, and determine if something is right for you, or something you should worry about.  There could be exception scenarios where maybe it isn't good for someone - I have no idea.  My main point is that broadly dismissing it as dangerous is probably overly dismissive when it can be a great protein alternative.


 

It was impossible to read grey text on a grey background, I had to highlight your post in order to read it. Once I did that, it seems like the posts are more focused on whether it causes cancer, I was more focused on the hormonal imbalance, unrelated to cancer. Still interesting people did think there was a correlation to cancer though.

[Splain | 2,571]

I heard that plant-based protein is harder for our bodies to absorb than protein from meat, and that you only get something like 70% of the grams from like, a shake or whatever. Any truth to that?

[final fight cd | 187]

16 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Article from American Cancer Society about Soy:
https://www.cancer.org/cancer/latest-news/soy-and-cancer-risk-our-experts-advice.html
"So far, the evidence does not point to any dangers from eating soy in people, and the health benefits appear to outweigh any potential risk. In fact, there is growing evidence that eating traditional soy foods such as tofu, tempeh, edamame, miso, and soymilk may lower the risk of breast cancer, especially among Asian women. Soy foods are excellent sources of protein, especially when they replace other, less healthy foods such as animal fats and red or processed meats. Soy foods have been linked to lower rates of heart disease and may even help lower cholesterol."

American Institute for Cancer Research:
https://www.aicr.org/resources/blog/soy-and-cancer-myths-and-misconceptions/
"Myth: Eating soy foods raise your risk for breast cancer.  Fact: Soy foods are safe for women and provide fiber, a cancer-fighter."

Mayo Clinic: Will eating soy increase my risk of breast cancer?
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/soy-breast-cancer-risk/faq-20120377#:~:text=It was once thought that,tofu%2C soy milk and edamame.
"It was once thought that soy foods increase the risk of breast cancer. However, eating a moderate amount of soy foods does not increase risk of breast cancer — or other types of cancer. A moderate amount is one to two servings a day of whole-soy foods, such as tofu, soy milk and edamame."

National Library of Medicine Article: The Science of Soy: What Do We Really Know?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1480510/
Presents a more conservative analysis but board and inconclusive - prompts more research essentially.

Article: Tofu intake is inversely associated with risk of breast cancer: A meta-analysis of observational studies
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0226745
"our findings suggest an inverse dose-response association between tofu intake and risk of breast cancer"

I could go on and on, but it seems the concept of tofu giving you estrogen (in the ways we think of it) and causing negative health effects has vastly been debunked, and there are many benefits to increasing soy in one's diet, *especially* as a replacement for other types of proteins.

In my own personal situation, I eat a decent amount of tofu - sometimes several times a week - as I am vegetarian, and so far all the health effects of my diet have been very positive for me.

-----

Edit: I will add though, that it is always important for each person to talk with their doctor and/or other professionals about stuff like this, and determine if something is right for you, or something you should worry about.  There could be exception scenarios where maybe it isn't good for someone - I have no idea.  My main point is that broadly dismissing it as dangerous is probably overly dismissive when it can be a great protein alternative.


 

nutritional studies are highly, HIGHLY corrupt.  it is fact the vast majority of studies are heavily funded by big food and big pharma, which means there are huge conflicts of interest.  it is extremely hard to prove anything in nutrition because it literally is impossible.  i am not a researcher nor do i have much schooling in statistics, but this is what i have heard.

i am not a flexitarian.  i believe veganism, or avoiding meat, is a scam that has little to no health benefits.  i have 600 lbs of cow in my freezer.  

[final fight cd | 187]

Just now, Splain said:

I heard that plant-based protein is harder for our bodies to absorb than protein from meat, and that you only get something like 70% of the grams from like, a shake or whatever. Any truth to that?

fact.  humans cannot utilize plant "vitamins." we first have to convert them to a human usable form, which we are very inefficient at.  so save your body the trouble and just eat meat.  no conversion necessary.  high bio-availability. 

[Splain | 2,571]

Didn't coca-cola convince some organization to recommend a can of soda as a healthy snack once? Let me find it

Edit:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coca-cola-paid-nutrition-experts-to-recommend-soda-as-a-healthy-snack-2015-3

Basically "those mini-cans aren't TOO bad for you, especially if you cut back to those when you're obese from drinking tons of coke every day"

[Richardhead | 2,813]

1 minute ago, final fight cd said:

nutritional studies are highly, HIGHLY corrupt.  it is fact the vast majority of studies are heavily funded by big food and big pharma, which means there are huge conflicts of interest.  it is extremely hard to prove anything in nutrition because it literally is impossible.  i am not a researcher nor do i have much schooling in statistics, but this is what i have heard.

i am not a flexitarian.  i believe veganism, or avoiding meat, is a scam that has little to no health benefits.  i have 600 lbs of cow in my freezer.  

You sir are correct!!!

we are and always will be led by a bunch of corrupt people that want to tell us what to eat. The fact that we all stand by and let it happen is infuriating.

If you feel good with what you eat then that’s what you should eat. 

[final fight cd | 187]

1 minute ago, Richardhead said:

You sir are correct!!!

we are and always will be led by a bunch of corrupt people that want to tell us what to eat. The fact that we all stand by and let it happen is infuriating.

If you feel good with what you eat then that’s what you should eat. 

yes.  if you want to eat your bunny food and be hangry all day, do it!  but this agenda that is being pushed to avoid meat is very infuriating.  Veganism is awful for the environment, nature, and animals.  

big food wants you to avoid meat because it means you buy their highly processed garbage instead.  more profits for them!!  there are ZERO studies that prove red meat is bad for you, red meat causes cancer, or red meat causes heart disease.  it's all associations. but saying red meat is associated with heart disease so you shouldn't eat it is like saying you should never call the fire department because house fires are associated with firetrucks.  

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

4 minutes ago, Splain said:

Didn't coca-cola convince some organization to recommend a can of soda as a healthy snack once? Let me find it

Guinness beer used the slogan "Guinness is good for you" based on it having supposed health benefits, but they had to stop using it.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

12 minutes ago, final fight cd said:

i believe veganism, or avoiding meat, is a scam that has little to no health benefits.  i have 600 lbs of cow in my freezer.  

For what it's worth I have a 16 oz ribeye marinating right now to throw on the grill later. 

[Richardhead | 2,813]

1 minute ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

For what it's worth I have a 16 oz ribeye marinating right now to throw on the grill later. 

You monster!!!

Salt and pepper that bitch, let it get to room temp and grill it!

[final fight cd | 187]

6 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

For what it's worth I have a 16 oz ribeye marinating right now to throw on the grill later. 

my last cow i bought i just threw everything in my freezers without much thought. turned out all the ribeyes were on top.  so for like 3 -4 weeks i was eating ribeyes 2-3 times per day.  it was a very good month!

Edited September 10, 2023 by final fight cd

[Gloves | 11,800]

I made some Char Siu Pork the other day. 

[spacepup | 2,405]

26 minutes ago, final fight cd said:

nutritional studies are highly, HIGHLY corrupt.  it is fact the vast majority of studies are heavily funded by big food and big pharma, which means there are huge conflicts of interest.  it is extremely hard to prove anything in nutrition because it literally is impossible.  i am not a researcher nor do i have much schooling in statistics, but this is what i have heard.

i am not a flexitarian.  i believe veganism, or avoiding meat, is a scam that has little to no health benefits.  i have 600 lbs of cow in my freezer.  

I shared multiple articles and studies from a few sources since he specifically asked.  People can, and should, make their own conclusions based upon their own research and consulting with their doctors.  

Personally, I have no concerns about consuming tofu in moderation (like anything else).  If someone comes to a different conclusion, they obviously don't have to eat it and that's fine.

[spacepup | 2,405]

20 minutes ago, final fight cd said:

yes.  if you want to eat your bunny food and be hangry all day, do it!  but this agenda that is being pushed to avoid meat is very infuriating.  Veganism is awful for the environment, nature, and animals.  

big food wants you to avoid meat because it means you buy their highly processed garbage instead.  more profits for them!!  there are ZERO studies that prove red meat is bad for you, red meat causes cancer, or red meat causes heart disease.  it's all associations. but saying red meat is associated with heart disease so you shouldn't eat it is like saying you should never call the fire department because house fires are associated with firetrucks.  

Veganism in general doesn't have to be bad for the environment.  It depends on what you eat.  I don't eat many processed foods - in fact, most of my 'groceries' come from local farms - I've signed up with a crop share where I get lots of fruits and vegetables from a local farmer, which means significantly less strain on the national supply chain, travel and distribution, etc.  

I can't speak for everyone of course, and I'm not, but being vegetarian or even vegan, doesn't *have* to be bad for the environment or animals.  It is all about how an individual chooses to apply that philosophy in their own situation.

I'll also clarify here that I'm not suggesting people need to become vegetarian - I'm simply sharing some information about my own situation.  But I'm not trying to force anyone to stop eating meat.

[PII | 1,886]

Nice to see you back with us.  This is what I figured you were up to recently à la your sudden interest in Roaches and Tile.  6:58 - 7:22

 

Back in the olden days (2000's) we had a similar concept known as "Freeganism."

[PII | 1,886]

1 hour ago, Splain said:

Didn't coca-cola convince some organization to recommend a can of soda as a healthy snack once? Let me find it

A spoonful of refined sugar every day used to be promoted as part of a healthy diet as well.

Trusting the experts is tantamount to suicide much more often than it is not.

The adage of the bunny rabbit and three wolves voting on what's for dinner comes to mind...

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,014]

I only eat meat for dinner. I think it's pretty normal overall. I think it'd be for unusual to eat more for every meal. 

[Sumez | 2,968]

2 hours ago, Richardhead said:

Before anyone reads what they want to read in this post. I did say “most vegetarians”. 
meaning not all.

 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

2 hours ago, Richardhead said:

You monster!!!

Salt and pepper that bitch, let it get to room temp and grill it!

I use Montreal Steak seasoning. It's great!

[Tenjikuronin | 1,738]

5 hours ago, Richardhead said:

Have you ever considered adding meat back into your diet? How do you get your daily calories? Are you a “dirty vegetarian” that basically eats a garbage diet like most of the world? Or are you eating clean ?

I don’t mean to offend here. I’m just curious. As most of the vegetarians I know eat like garbage and think they are healthier than most people because they don’t eat meat.

Also, you did say AMA

All good questions!  I'll try to answer them individually below:

Quote

Have you ever considered adding meat back into your diet?

I should clarify that I've been vegetarian since birth, so meat was never part of my died to begin with.  I think the 35+ years part of my post probably made it sounds like I adopted it that long ago, but really I was just describing how old I am 

Quote

How do you get your daily calories?

 I normally eat quite a bit of Lentils, Legumes, Nuts and Dairy Products as part of my diet, along with an abundance of fruits and vegetables.  I like to stay active, but I'm fairy sedentary during the work week (desk job) so I usually reduce my consumption accordingly. 

 

Quote

Are you a “dirty vegetarian” that basically eats a garbage diet like most of the world?

Haha no no-- I avoid fast foods and processed sugar items.  I do most of my cooking myself, so it helps in controlling teh sodium levels in my food and what goes in it.  The "Junkfoodatarian" diet is way too common, among both veg or non-veg consumers.

 

Quote

Or are you eating clean ?

As a child I would eat any sugary thing that came my way, but as an adult I maintain strict control on what I'm eating -- so clean for the most part.

 

Quote

I don’t mean to offend here

No offense at all -- I appreciate the questions. 

[final fight cd | 187]

4 hours ago, spacepup said:

Veganism in general doesn't have to be bad for the environment.  It depends on what you eat.  I don't eat many processed foods - in fact, most of my 'groceries' come from local farms - I've signed up with a crop share where I get lots of fruits and vegetables from a local farmer, which means significantly less strain on the national supply chain, travel and distribution, etc.  

I can't speak for everyone of course, and I'm not, but being vegetarian or even vegan, doesn't *have* to be bad for the environment or animals.  It is all about how an individual chooses to apply that philosophy in their own situation.

I'll also clarify here that I'm not suggesting people need to become vegetarian - I'm simply sharing some information about my own situation.  But I'm not trying to force anyone to stop eating meat.

monocrops strip the soil of vital nutrients.  ruminant animals grazing on land, pissing and shitting in the fields replenish the soil.  a healthy soil sequesters carbon back in the soil. didn't several years ago Elon Musk put out a million dollar bounty to invent something to lower atmospheric carbon? ruminant animals already do that.  but nobody is ever going to be a millionaire off cows, so grazing animals will never be a viable solution to the climate issue because somebody can't patent something and become a millionaire.   

i have strong feelings about all of this.  i was actually vegan for 3 years and it ruined me.  i was caught up in the 'hype' but luckily i was able to take a step back and realize, in my opinion, what a scam it is.  

i'm like you, though:  i don't give 2 fugs what anybody eats. but i sometimes feel the need to express my opinions. 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

5 hours ago, Gloves said:

I made some Char Siu Pork the other day. 

After some research, this actually sounds good despite it looking like a crime scene in a bowl.

[Gloves | 11,800]

1 minute ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

After some research, this actually sounds good despite it looking like a crime scene in a bowl.

It's delicious.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

Just now, Gloves said:

It's delicious.

Since it seems to be a type of Korean bbq pork, I imagine that it's something I'd like.

[T-Pac | 7,560]

I'm probably proof against the "being vegetarian / being vegan makes you healthy" idea.

I've been vegan for a while now, but I'm just out here eating carrot-sticks and oreo cookies all day haha.

[T-Pac]