Getting a job in 2023.

[Strange | 1,700]

But also, your experience of taking countless interviews and hearing nothing is the new standard. It’s happening to everyone I know who is currently looking for a job, young and old. It’s the way the job market is now. Many (not all) places either have too high expectations or just flat out do not respect their current or prospective employees. Workers are nothing more than cattle to many (not all) employers these days. A warm body to do nothing but make numbers go up.

I’m thankful to have been in my new career and at my current job for two years now. I got lucky. They take care of us. But everyone should remember that @Richardhead’s situation can happen to you at any time. Loyalty is rare these days in the workplace.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Strange

[fcgamer | 4,730]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

But also, your experience of taking countless interviews and hearing nothing is the new standard. It’s happening to everyone I know who is currently looking for a job, young and old. It’s the way the job market is now. Many (not all) places either have too high expectations or just flat out do not respect their current or prospective employees. Workers are nothing more than cattle to many (not all) employers these days. A warm body to do nothing but make numbers go up.

I’m thankful to have been in my new career and at my current job for two years now. I got lucky. They take care of us. But everyone should remember that @Richardhead’s situation can happen to you at any time. Loyalty is rare these days in the workplace.

I've had this situation for years, I thought it was a cultural thing so I am saddened to hear that things have gone toxic in America as well, but such "workers are nothing more than cattle" techniques eventually cause their own set of problems. 

Good luck with the job search @Richardhead! I personally believe that when people blag their way through an interview, nothing good is necessarily going to come of it from the point of the employer, but alas we live in a culture where saying the "right" thing is most important. Having to make up a story about how you handled missing a deadline, for example, if you never did - sheesh. However, gotta do what you gotta do to get the job.

Good luck with the hunt!

[avatar! | 1,820]

I've done a fair amount of interviewing on the academic front, and we always have a set of questions we ask everyone who gets an interview (which is honestly few out of many applicants). I can certainly say that I look for thoughtful answers and not just generic responses. One question we ask is similar to "where do you see yourself in five years?" and an answer of:

No way of me knowing.

would by itself sink your chances. Good positions are absolutely competitive. It's important to do a lot of research to see what the people you want to work for expect. It's equally important to be able to answer well and thoughtful. It's also important to have an updated, readable, accessible, CV.

Along these lines, just recently read this article -

‘Homeless jobless:’ MSU graduate having no luck in job hunt, turns to panhandling

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2023/05/15/michigan-state-graduate-job-search-panhandling-michael-wilson/70219368007/

Wilson, 28, graduated earlier this month from the College of Communication Arts and Sciences with a degree in digital storytelling. He said he's put in over 90 job applications and conducted interviews for three, but has yet to receive an offer. “I'm not just sitting around doing nothing,” Wilson said. “I went to college, I paid the money, I did everything society has told me to do and still here I am.”

The Bureau of Labor Statistics found that the median pay in the news industry in 2021 was $48,370 per year, or $23.26 per hour. The Bureau also predicts a 9% decline in the number of journalism jobs by 2031.

I feel for this guy, but at the same time, even decades ago it was clear that some industries are shrinking big time. Not that someone should not pursue their passion, but everyone needs to have a plan B. I wish him well, all this attention will probably help.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

48 minutes ago, avatar! said:

I've done a fair amount of interviewing on the academic front, and we always have a set of questions we ask everyone who gets an interview (which is honestly few out of many applicants). I can certainly say that I look for thoughtful answers and not just generic responses. One question we ask is similar to "where do you see yourself in five years?" and an answer of:

No way of me knowing.

would by itself sink your chances. Good positions are absolutely competitive. It's important to do a lot of research to see what the people you want to work for expect. It's equally important to be able to answer well and thoughtful. It's also important to have an updated, readable, accessible, CV.

Along these lines, just recently read this article -

‘Homeless jobless:’ MSU graduate having no luck in job hunt, turns to panhandling

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2023/05/15/michigan-state-graduate-job-search-panhandling-michael-wilson/70219368007/

Wilson, 28, graduated earlier this month from the College of Communication Arts and Sciences with a degree in digital storytelling. He said he's put in over 90 job applications and conducted interviews for three, but has yet to receive an offer. “I'm not just sitting around doing nothing,” Wilson said. “I went to college, I paid the money, I did everything society has told me to do and still here I am.”

The Bureau of Labor Statistics found that the median pay in the news industry in 2021 was $48,370 per year, or $23.26 per hour. The Bureau also predicts a 9% decline in the number of journalism jobs by 2031.

I feel for this guy, but at the same time, even decades ago it was clear that some industries are shrinking big time. Not that someone should not pursue their passion, but everyone needs to have a plan B. I wish him well, all this attention will probably help.

My wife works in academia and does interviews and said the same thing.  Hers is public though (not sure if you work in private sector or not)

 

Anyways, Is digital story telling being an instagram influencer? That doesnt sound like a real job, but I don’t even know what it entails. 
 

Bet he could find work if he knew how to grow food, or build a fence though. 

[Link | 2,715]

3 hours ago, avatar! said:

 even decades ago it was clear that some industries are shrinking big time. 

You can say that now, with hindsight and as an experienced adult. But decades ago, I was looking for work in the classified ads, looking up movie times for multiple theaters, learning of the days events at every level, and reading comics every day in a delivered newspaper. While the internet was starting to gain use mainstream and popular, in the days of webrings, frames, banner ads, angelfire/geocities, there was little reason to believe journalism as an industry was a shrinking, "decades ago".

[Link | 2,715]

To say nothing of that we thought the internet would further democratize things like desktop publishing did, and allow better access to mainstream, serious, and investigative journalism while also bringing exposure to more independent voices. And for a time, it did all of that. But yes, the environment is always shifting. I just think is only very recently that the rate of change concerning dying industries has become evidently exponential. If this was really that predictable, it wouldn't be so consequential. 

[avatar! | 1,820]

15 hours ago, Link said:

You can say that now, with hindsight and as an experienced adult. But decades ago, I was looking for work in the classified ads, looking up movie times for multiple theaters, learning of the days events at every level, and reading comics every day in a delivered newspaper. While the internet was starting to gain use mainstream and popular, in the days of webrings, frames, banner ads, angelfire/geocities, there was little reason to believe journalism as an industry was a shrinking, "decades ago".

I don't know how old you are, if you're say 80 - which I sincerely doubt, then sure 80 years ago was a very different era.  When I was a college students (decades ago) there was already writing on the wall that many jobs are on the decline. In the past 15 years, newsroom employment fell 25% - that's incredible! But, it's not like all of a sudden 2008 was the year everything sank (yes, I know economic factors play a big role) the decline has been steady for far before 2008. This is true of many jobs, and it's not hindsight, it's simply taking into account economic factors and technology. Once upon a time you could learn to be a TV repairman - anyone going to recommend that to their kids?!

Again, there's no hindsight here and predicting job growth and decline is nothing new. Here is the Bureau of Labor Statistics projected decline from 2021 - 2031. Are they always correct? No. Are they usually very accurate? Yes. 

https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/fastest-declining-occupations.htm

You can also take a look at the fastest growing occupations - and not surprisingly, they are data scientists, health care professionals, etc. What you might expect. However, some jobs may surprise people. Taxi drivers are expecting an increase in demand. This is of course due to Uber, Lyft, etc. Also, just because there is growth does not mean it's not very competitive, nor that you will make a good salary. Anyway, point is in general there's nothing particularly surprising about these trends.

https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/fastest-growing-occupations.htm

[avatar! | 1,820]

19 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

Anyways, Is digital story telling being an instagram influencer? That doesnt sound like a real job, but I don’t even know what it entails. Bet he could find work if he knew how to grow food, or build a fence though. 

Good question!

https://comartsci.msu.edu/academics/academic-departments/journalism/undergraduate/bachelor-arts-digital-storytelling

Digital storytelling is the foundation for the world of media. The Bachelor of Arts degree in Digital Storytelling prepares students for a career in a media-focused world and provides them with the tools and techniques needed for creative, entrepreneurial and analytical processes and production. Graduates are prepared for a multitude of career paths — film, television, corporate communications, digital advertising, new media — anything that involves using sound and image to entertain, inform and/or educate. The digital storytelling major has an interdisciplinary focus with courses from Communication Arts and Science, Film Studies, and Journalism.

Honestly, it doesn't sound so bad. There's definitely a need for people with skills in  "media studies", but apparently it's a very popular degree (top 10) and I'm guessing the competition is very intense for a good job.

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

If you've been working in an industry for 20 years and still have to go to interviews, you've done something wrong. Over 20 years of working for someone, you should have met multiple other people in the same industry that are responsible for hiring in other companies or own similar companies and if you're as good as you say, they would be just waiting for the day you're unemployed so they can scoop you up. I can't remember the last time I went to an interview, I just know people that need similar skills and they have an open position any time I'm looking.

Are you able to have a conversation with someone and make them laugh? I usually start my interviews (when I'm interviewing someone) with just talking random shit about their tattoos or maybe a logo on their bag or anything that can get a conversation going and ease their nervousness. What I'm really looking for is someone that can just naturally flow a conversation with anyone about anything of no real importance. If they're unable to hold any sort of conversation, the interview isn't going to last very long.

If you fail a drug test, well.......I don't even know what to say about that. I've never really been into drugs but what I can say from working with smokers is I prefer not to work anywhere in the vicinity of someone that goes outside to suck on the most foul smelling substance known to exist and then wants to come inside and have a conversation with me. No thank you, go back outside and air out, smelly.

If you have never given / received constructive criticism, I don't even know what to say. Whenever I ask about this, I specifically want to know if I'll be able to tell this person they're doing something incorrectly and how they'll handle it. Some people simply cannot handle being told they're doing something wrong and I had to fire someone recently just because they were unable to accept this. I spent so much time deleting and reverting their work that it would take up less of my time to let them go and do it myself rather than have them do it incorrectly and refuse to listen to me. Are you able to listen to someone telling you your methods are wrong? If I told you how I wanted papers filed and collated, would you appreciate the advice or would you complain to your coworkers that I'm on your ass?

As an example of constructive criticism, I was at a gas station once wiping the windshield on my car and someone looked at me, stopped, took another step, stopped and looked at me again. He said he knew a better way to do that and was worried he would offend me if he told me. I wasn't offended at all, after he showed me the new way, I agreed it was way better and I've been using his method ever since. I thought it was great, that's constructive criticism.

I have no idea why people ask where you see yourself in 5 years, WTF? Why, you want to marry me? I've never asked anyone this question because it doesn't make any sense, who would even know this?

If you're asked about your salary expectations, tell them what you made at your last job and that you'd like to be in that range. This is one instance I would have no problem telling someone how much money I was making previously.

Lastly, if you're doing entry level work like clerical or reception, it's not as important whether you can do it as how you'll be in the office with everyone else. Anyone can do that work so they're going to be looking for someone that isn't always hiding away at their desk to eat their lunch alone, going outside alone on breaks nor running out the door at 5pm without saying bye to anyone. Give them some idea that you'd be social and chat with various people in the corridors when you pass them. Nobody wants to work with someone that isn't friendly, even if you're the best person in the world at your job.

Good luck, dude.

[Link | 2,715]

3 hours ago, avatar! said:

I don't know how old you are, if you're say 80 - which I sincerely doubt, then sure 80 years ago was a very different era.  When I was a college students (decades ago) there was already writing on the wall that many jobs are on the decline. In the past 15 years, newsroom employment fell 25% - that's incredible! But, it's not like all of a sudden 2008 was the year everything sank (yes, I know economic factors play a big role) the decline has been steady for far before 2008.

To be fair, I would define decades as not necessarily 80 years (wth?) but definitely at least 20. 15 is not more than one 10-year period. I was thinking of 1998-2003 in particular. Ok sure, some people could have predicted. In the way I knew the housing bubble was not right in 2007. But I just don't think pursuing a career in journalism would be so ill-advised in the 90s based on conventional wisdom at the time. 

[avatar! | 1,820]

1 hour ago, Link said:

To be fair, I would define decades as not necessarily 80 years (wth?) but definitely at least 20. 15 is not more than one 10-year period. I was thinking of 1998-2003 in particular. Ok sure, some people could have predicted. In the way I knew the housing bubble was not right in 2007. But I just don't think pursuing a career in journalism would be so ill-advised in the 90s based on conventional wisdom at the time. 

80 was just a decently large number a few generations removed... I mean honestly, it would be awesome if we have 80-year olds in this forum

Anyway, jobs in journalism have been in steep decline since 1990. To be fair, from 2000 to 2010 saw the largest decline, but again, I felt that the writing was on the wall significantly before the new millennium -

Almost 60% of US newspaper jobs vanish in 26 years

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/jun/06/almost-60-of-us-newspaper-jobs-vanish-in-26-years

The blue line which is greatly decreasing represents newspaper employment.

[fcgamer | 4,730]

12 hours ago, Link said:

To be fair, I would define decades as not necessarily 80 years (wth?) but definitely at least 20. 15 is not more than one 10-year period. I was thinking of 1998-2003 in particular. Ok sure, some people could have predicted. In the way I knew the housing bubble was not right in 2007. But I just don't think pursuing a career in journalism would be so ill-advised in the 90s based on conventional wisdom at the time. 

Agreed 100%

This is what people should be thinking about, rather than just bogus bs to sound pretty.

Agree on the interview thing too..if you've got the reputation then...

[Richardhead | 2,813]

Welp. I got a job. I’ve been at it for 3 weeks tomorrow. I was positive I tanked the interview. But here I am. It’s not really a job I wanted, but it’s something I knew would be easy.

The pay is good, benefits are great, the people that work there are a bit too damn nice and it’s almost a bit cultish. But hey, I’ll take it. 
Thanks again for all your support VGS people!

[Tabonga | 2,324]

1 hour ago, Richardhead said:

The pay is good, benefits are great, the people that work there are a bit too damn nice and it’s almost a bit cultish. 

Just ask a couple of them if they know anyone that is into necrophilia.  They will soon stop being nice - unless of course their cult is devoted to necrophilia.........

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

2 hours ago, Richardhead said:

Welp. I got a job. I’ve been at it for 3 weeks tomorrow. I was positive I tanked the interview. But here I am. It’s not really a job I wanted, but it’s something I knew would be easy.

The pay is good, benefits are great, the people that work there are a bit too damn nice and it’s almost a bit cultish. But hey, I’ll take it. 
Thanks again for all your support VGS people!

Glad to hear. On the brightside, At least its not a bunch of terrible douches!

 

Do you care to share what industry and or where?

[Richardhead | 2,813]

3 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Glad to hear. On the brightside, At least its not a bunch of terrible douches!

 

Do you care to share what industry and or where?

Nothing crazy. Natural Grocers.

[Richardhead | 2,813]

Just an update here. It is exactly 7 month today that I started my first day at a new job. It’s been a damn rollercoaster.

I tanked the interview and by happenstance, I got the job anyways. It was for grocery/bulk/dairy/frozen assistant at a small grocery store. The interview was crazy. There were three people interviewing me (there was supposed to be 4). The store manager, the grocery/bulk manager and the dairy frozen manager all sat me in this small office and asked me some crazy questions that I couldn’t answer. The SM didn’t want to hire me but the two girls that run the respective departments were desperate to have an assistant. So they talked him into hiring me. Had the assistant manager been on time to work that day, I would have not got the job.

I really liked the position a lot. My bosses were awesome at training me and they both liked me a lot(still do). I got good at the job pretty quickly and the work was easy for me, even though I had never worked at a grocery store before and had no clue what I was doing. 

About a month ago, the dairy/frozen manager moved to receiving and they offered me her position. I took the job of course and it was going fantastic. Welp…. The fucking power went out 2 Fridays ago and stayed out for 16 hours. It completely wiped out my department. I’ve been so behind ever since. Anyhow, everyone from all the other departments put all their shit on hold to help me recover. They offered me as much OT as I wanted and I am now almost caught up. Maybe another week.

The benefits here are great. So is the health insurance. My coworkers are all great people. We are like a little family, almost a bit cultish. We are all hopped up on vitamins and we are always looking out for each other in and out of work. 
I honestly never imagined things could be going this well 7 months ago.

I wish I’d have left my last job 7 years ago.

Thats my little update for now. Thanks for reading

 

[avatar! | 1,820]

@Richardhead congrats! That's wonderful to hear

[Richardhead | 2,813]

1 minute ago, avatar! said:

@Richardhead congrats! That's wonderful to hear

Thanks. It’s been quiet the rollercoaster and I’ve had fun doing it. 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,550]

19 minutes ago, Richardhead said:

The SM didn’t want to hire me but the two girls that run the respective departments were desperate to have an assistant

I stopped reading here, because I just know that this story turns into a porno.  Starring Richardhead.

[a3quit4s | 4,106]

Just now, Reed Rothchild said:

I stopped reading here, because I just know that this story turns into a porno.  Starring Richardhead.

I was gonna say just hook the power up to his nuts cause they are electrifying all the ladies in the Midwest 

[Richardhead | 2,813]

1 hour ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I stopped reading here, because I just know that this story turns into a porno.  Starring Richardhead.

Well, one is older and married. The other is young and I’m a serious relationship.  Unfortunately, I’m not really interested in work relationships right now. I’m still trying to figure out how to do my job

[Reed Rothchild | 9,550]

21 minutes ago, Richardhead said:

Well, one is older and married. The other is young and I’m a serious relationship.

That's the plot of basically every porn scene!

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

On 12/18/2023 at 7:26 PM, Richardhead said:

About a month ago, the dairy/frozen manager moved to receiving and they offered me her position. I took the job of course and it was going fantastic. Welp…. The fucking power went out 2 Fridays ago and stayed out for 16 hours. It completely wiped out my department. I’ve been so behind ever since. Anyhow, everyone from all the other departments put all their shit on hold to help me recover. They offered me as much OT as I wanted and I am now almost caught up. Maybe another week.

I'm shocked that stores don't have generators to keep the freezer/coolers going.  I know there's insurance, but still.   

[Quaze | 342]

On 5/4/2023 at 1:15 PM, Richardhead said:

Now here are some of the interview questions asked. Ones that I thought were particularly dumb. Followed by my answers.

 

“Tell me about a time you received constructive criticism, and what tools you used to overcome it”

 

Criticism is never constructive.

 

“where do you see yourself in 5 years”

 

No way of me knowing.

 

“Tell me about a time that you had to deal with adversity in the workplace and how you overcame the situation”

 

I dealt with adversity everyday, I just rolled with it and didn’t let it ruin my day.

 

“what are your salary expectations”

 

What you posted on your job listing.

 

“What critical feedback do you hear most often”

 

I don’t hear critical feedback.

 

“Are you willing to fail”

 

Of course I am. If you don’t fail you’ve done something wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You stonewall your interview questions like this, and are surprised you're having a hard time finding work? Brother I say this from a place of *constructive criticism* (yes, there is definitely such a thing): You are trying to give your interviewer answers that will satisfy them, not shut them down dismissively. The constructive part here is that I'm trying to give you a pointer that will help you for the future while pointing out what likely didn't work. That is what constructive criticism is.

 I'm responsible for hiring at my company, and if someone answered my interview questions like this, I'd just thank them and end the interview there. I'm looking for engagement and interest. If you don't have that, you're wasting both of our time.