Collecting "truths" that just aren't true

[fcgamer | 4,754]

The Stadium Events recall smells like a huge bogus crock of shit to me. Anyone know how that story even got started?

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Looks like you let the troll slip out Dave, be careful

[fcgamer | 4,754]

Another story that I've heard more than I want to is that the Kung Fu version of Spartan X on Famicom was released for Asian countries aside from Japan. Again, a lot of silly words with no evidence that I've seen.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

57 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Likely SE situation is the same as the blue Chiller. Ready to go in limited quantities, some are sold, with Nintendo rolling their out quickly after.

No recall.

29 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

SE is 100% proven to have been manufactured for a retail release, blue Chiller hasn't.  End of story...

Everything we know about Chiller in the Color Dreams shell is pretty much pure speculation.  Hypothetically, if it was released to the public, it was likely a mail order exclusive, which would explain the insanely low numbers known to exist.  The odds of that, however, is fairly slim at this point.  The only evidence we have for Sharedata's version even existing are a few ads in GamePro and two cart-only copies.  It's simply not enough to say one way or the other, and unless someone who was actually involved with the company at the time turns up and spills the beans, that's simply how it's gonna remain.  Hell, a box and manual for the Sharedata version would go a long way to making that claim as well, much like Air Raid on the 2600.

Stadium Events, however, was 100% released at retail.  It was released in September of 1987, while WCTM was released in August of 1988.  That's 11 months where it was on the market.  Also, we know of maybe one or two 5-screw copies, despite the 3-screw cart design not coming out until January of 1988.  My pure speculation is that Nintendo eased up on the minimums at the tail end of '87 due to them likely knowing about the redesign coming.  They were also likely negotiating with Bandai for the Power Pad around that same period, so they would've probably allowed fewer SE carts to be manufactured as part of that negotiation period.  I'm positing that the FFF pad was such a niche item that sales were far from brisk, nevermind a game that was made exclusively for it.  And since Bandai didn't have the marketing muscle that Nintendo did in America, they negotiated for Nintendo to take over that niche item and put their marketing power behind it, and Nintendo in exchange manufactured far fewer copies to avoid an excessive amount of unsold inventory.  It makes a ton more sense than a hasty recall, and explains why so few survived to this day despite almost a year on store shelves.  Further anecdotal evidence can be found in the fact that there aren't many FFF pads or FFF Athletic World carts that survived.  If people didn't buy the pad, why would they buy a game exclusively for it?  Again, it's all speculation, but makes far more sense than a recall.

Hell, another thought that just came into my mind - even if it was recalled, there's no guarantee all the copies would've been sent back anyway.  A recent example would be The Guy Game on the original X-Box.  The game wasn't exactly a hit to begin with, but copies are pretty easy to find despite a well known recall happening.  With SE, I would assume something similar if it were recalled and was produced in any significant quantity.  I'm betting that it was a smaller than normal run - first to avoid excess stock during the cartridge style change, and after because Bandai and Nintendo were negotiating the American rights to the FFF pad.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

@the_wizard_666 I feel more or less the same as you on the matter, nice post.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,092]

2 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Where's the proof? Nothing that I've seen.

Atwood had a sealed case of six SE's, which is how NES games were distributed to retailers.  Furthermore, we've all seen sealed copies of SE go up for sale over the years.  If a game is manufactured and then placed inside a sealed retail box with a manual at the factory, that means it was intended to be released to retail.  Sharedata Chiller, on the other hand, has two cart-only copies extant, and is essentially a prototype or demo copy in every conceivable way save for the production-quality label.  I know you're just trolling anyway, but I thought I'd straighten this out for any future collectors who may stumble upon your giberish twenty-odd years from now...

 

PS - ALL NES CHILLERS ARE "SHAREDATA" CHILLERS!!!!!!!!!  

[Tulpa | 3,537]

3 hours ago, fcgamer said:

The Stadium Events recall smells like a huge bogus crock of shit to me. Anyone know how that story even got started?

Probably early collectors speculating on SE's notably uncommon nature, especially for a game released when Nintendo was on the rise (most other uncommon licensed releases were late in the NES retail lifespan.) Someone might have noted Nintendo themselves released the same game with a different title, and suggested the recall theory. From there it must have taken on a life of its own without anyone saying "you know, we don't actually have any proof."

I don't have a problem with people suggesting that theory, as long as they acknowledge that it isn't conclusive, but I've seen some so adamant about it that you'd think that they were quoting scriptures. Like, ready to throw down about it. And they didn't even own the game!

Edited February 16, 2023 by Tulpa

[fcgamer | 4,754]

2 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Atwood had a sealed case of six SE's, which is how NES games were distributed to retailers.  Furthermore, we've all seen sealed copies of SE go up for sale over the years.  If a game is manufactured and then placed inside a sealed retail box with a manual at the factory, that means it was intended to be released to retail.

My problem with the conclusions you are drawing here is that intentions don't actually mean something happened. Cheetahmen II had boxes and manuals, I think Police Academy was ready to go to retail too, and is one of those games that I wouldn't be surprised if they did turn up at some point.

It's likely the game made it to retail, but I wouldn't say that we should be taking it 100% as a given, all things considered when looking at the game and its situation.

 

 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

Wasn't there also a rumor that the game was sold exclusively at Woolworth?

[fcgamer | 4,754]

1 hour ago, Tulpa said:

I don't have a problem with people suggesting that theory, as long as they acknowledge that it isn't conclusive, but I've seen some so adamant about it that you'd think that they were quoting scriptures. Like, ready to throw down about it. And they didn't even own the game!

While not aiming the thread specifically at Stadium Events, the above type of situation is why I started the thread. 

Over the years I've heard so many theories getting passed off as fact, some of them really ridiculous.

There was another theory I heard once where someone said Taiwanese programmer Hwang Shinwei and another industry person named Hwang were husband and wife, as they were working at the same company and had shared the same family name. For reference though, it would be akin to two people with the name of Smith being relatives, as Huang is a common surname. Just ridiculous some of the things people sometimes suggest.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

5 hours ago, fcgamer said:

My problem with the conclusions you are drawing here is that intentions don't actually mean something happened. Cheetahmen II had boxes and manuals, I think Police Academy was ready to go to retail too, and is one of those games that I wouldn't be surprised if they did turn up at some point.

It's likely the game made it to retail, but I wouldn't say that we should be taking it 100% as a given, all things considered when looking at the game and its situation.

You're really laying it on thick here, being argumentative for the sake of arguing.  Based on what you're saying, and the amount of evidence required for you to accept that a game was sold at retail, we currently have just as much evidence in this thread that games like Metroid and Rad Racer were also in the same "Cheetahmen II" category that you seem to be trying to box Stadium Events into.  Your apparent evidence requirements for retail distribution also firmly put Dino Peak back into conspiracy theory territory, as the only "evidence" that it was sold somewhere other than Blockbuster came from a couple of personal recollections of a couple of back-in-the-day owners buying it from some other stores.

By your standard, we shouldn't be taking it as a 100% given that any NES games made it to retail, unless we've got enough proper, actual evidence of it.  Presumably, this would have to consist of multiple photos and/or videos of multiple copies available at retail, as a single photo of a single location could indicate Nintendo just throwing out dummy copies for a photo op.  Or should we be even more scrutinous, and require everyone to start digging up their ~30-40 year old receipts in order to provide an acceptable proof-of-purchase?

If you've intentionally put on your trolling hat again, I urge you to remove it in this thread.  If you haven't, the I urge you to back off your evidence requirements a bit, as many, many more games in both the NES and Famicom libraries would fail to pass that litmus test based on what little hard evidence still exists beyond Nintendo making some cartridges.

[Link | 2,738]

14 hours ago, Tulpa said:

But as I said, I would think more people would have witnessed this happening and would have provided that information to collectors. That is my issue with the recall theory. People stateside would be more likely to notice and remember. 

Why would anyone do that? 

Sometimes this type of info has been chased down, well after the fact and with much effort. There wasn't a collectors' scene at the time the way we would find out about something like that now.

[phart010 | 1,708]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:33 AM, fcgamer said:

A few years back and imagine circulated around from a magazine advert, which featured a Micro Genius 180 Famiclone. No one had ever seen this before but I figured it was just undiscovered like so many rarities.

Anyways, a website jumped to conclusions and stated that the machine was likely unreleased since it was red and white and resembled the Famicom, so the company was perhaps afraid to release it for fear of Nintendo. 

Oh yea. Those were originally made to be supplied to Blockbuster video under an exclusive contract. In fact Nintendo didn’t threaten them for pirating Famicom, they actually threatened them because they didnt want Japanese Famicom games to disrupt the American NES market. So Micro Genius recalled all the systems after Nintendo threatened them. There should be less than 10,000 of them due Micro Geniuses MOQ, half of them went into a landfill and the other half are on a pallet in a Mexican warehouse. The ones that survived and went to Mexico are all loose though since they unboxed them before shipping them out. They also replaced the MicroGenius labels with a regional distributors label. The one you have must be one of those few that were discovered in a sealed case by a NES collector on Nintendoage.

Source: trust me bro, I collect video games  

[Tulpa | 3,537]

2 hours ago, Link said:

Why would anyone do that? 

Sometimes this type of info has been chased down, well after the fact and with much effort. There wasn't a collectors' scene at the time the way we would find out about something like that now.

I worded it poorly, but I was implying that collectors would have chased it down. If 10k copies of SE made it stateside and then were pulled from retail shelves I think with enough people working in those stores, someone would have remembered and mentioned it. Speculating, yes, but I don't think it's that farfetched.

Shipping them back would have been expensive in 1987, too. They didn't have the global shipping logistics we have today. They could have been, but I don't think they did. If 10k made it here, and only a portion were sold, then either they were repurposed (unlikely, time consuming compared to trashing them and making new games), destroyed (most likely, IMO), or are sitting in a warehouse somewhere (possible, has precedence, re: Caltron, but less and less likely as time passes.) But I think someone would have remembered any of the three scenarios. Or maybe more Tim Atwoods are sitting on them (and would probably be cashing in on the graded bubble by now.)

If less than 10k were made, or if they did make the minimum but only a fraction made it over here, then a lot less people would be in the know. Although I don't think they are warehoused in Japan, either, given space over there is at a premium.

But yeah, we're all spit balling about it at this point.

Fun to talk about, we just have to make sure to note we're all speculating on it.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Tulpa

[RH | 4,982]

I know that SE is dominating the conversation right now but I think the real issue with all of these cases is that through out collecting, oddities are found and for those of us that go nuts over the details, all we can do is speculate how these items came into existence or ended up wherever they were found.

Without any data, the best we can do is use significant experience and reasonable logic to come to very-likely conclusions of how these events take place. But, with time these discussions make there ways to news articles and people, tell people, that tell people and reasonable speculation becomes "fact" to the people who aren't interested in serious research.

So, "facts" are born from our nit-picky conversations that eventually become legend. We all are too blame for starting the whole thing.

Now someone help me start a "Fact" rumor that the most important copies of Super Mario Land and Super Mario Land 2 are the rated E versions and they are the true holy grails of Nintendo handheld collecting so I can sell my dupes for $24,999 each!

Edited February 16, 2023 by RH

[Ankos | 467]

In my opinion, if people find copies of a game in the wild, then it is a more safe assumption (even if it is really rare) that it did get released rather than that it did not. Of course, if there is evidence that suggests otherwise, then that is different. With that being said, there is nothing wrong with pointing out it is an assumption being made

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ankos
Clarified that I was referring to rare games

[phart010 | 1,708]

Me: Hi ChatGPT. Nintendo made a video game system in the 1980’s called the “Nintendo Entertainment System” which is abbreviated as “NES”. As the manufacturer of video games, Nintendo had a minimum order quantity which is estimated to be 10,000 units per order. There is a very rare video game for the NES called “Stadium Events.” Only a few dozen copies of this game have ever been discovered in circulation. Why is it that only a few copies of this game are known to exist when theoretically there should be thousands of copies of this game in existence?

 

ChatGPT: The reason that only a few copies of the "Stadium Events" game for the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) are known to exist is because the game was recalled shortly after its release in 1987. The game was designed to be used with a special accessory called the "Family Fun Fitness" mat, which was used for games that required physical activity, such as running or jumping.

After a short period of time on the market, Nintendo acquired the rights to the game and the accessory and rebranded it as the "Power Pad". The "Stadium Events" game was re-released as "World Class Track Meet" and was included with the Power Pad as a pack-in game. As a result, the original "Stadium Events" game was recalled and destroyed, making it extremely rare and valuable today.

It's also worth noting that the minimum order quantity of 10,000 units is just an estimate, and it's possible that the actual number of units produced was lower, since the game was recalled so quickly after its release. Additionally, the few copies of the game that have surfaced are often in very good condition, indicating that they were likely never opened or played, which could further limit the number of available copies

 

Me: What is your source for this information?
 

ChatGPT: My sources for this information are a combination of video game industry history books, news articles, and online resources that have extensively covered the story of "Stadium Events". Some of the specific sources I drew upon include:

• "Console Wars: Sega, Nintendo, and the Battle That Defined a Generation" by Blake J. Harris
• "The Ultimate Guide to Vintage Transformers Action Figures" by Mark Bellomo
• "The Rarest & Most Valuable Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) Games" on RacketBoy.com
• "The Shockingly Rare Game Worth Over $10,000" on YouTube by TheGamer
• "The Sad Story of the Rare NES Game Stadium Events" on Kotaku.com

I hope this helps!
 

Me: Do you have any information on this topic that may have come from primary sources? Many of these sources you have listed have written about the topic based upon rumors and speculation
 

ChatGPT: You're right that some sources on this topic may rely on rumors and speculation. While it's difficult to obtain primary sources for a topic like this, here are some additional sources that provide more direct information on the subject:

• A blog post on the website of former Nintendo of America employee Howard Phillips, who was involved with the release of "Stadium Events" and the Power Pad accessory. Phillips confirms that the game was recalled and destroyed, and provides some additional information on the game's development and release: https://hphillips.wordpress.com/2010/05/28/stadium-events-on-the-nes/

• A news article from the LA Times published in 1988, which reports on the recall of "Stadium Events" and the re-release of the game as "World Class Track Meet" with the Power Pad accessory: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-01-09-fi-23380-story.html

• A video from the YouTube channel "MetalJesusRocks" featuring an interview with Rob Walters, a former Nintendo employee who was involved with the marketing of the Power Pad. Walters confirms that "Stadium Events" was recalled and destroyed, and provides some additional insight into the game's release and reception: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7V1U6zSBOo

I hope these sources are helpful in providing more direct information on the subject!

 

Me: Are there any additional sources that might contain useful information that you have not already listed?
 

ChatGPT: Yes, here are a few additional sources that might be of interest if you're looking for more information on the topic:

• A post on the NES subreddit that includes comments from users who claim to have worked for Nintendo or had connections to the company during the time of "Stadium Events"'s release. While some of these comments may be anecdotal or difficult to verify, they do provide some additional insights and perspectives on the game's recall and rarity: https://www.reddit.com/r/nes/comments/1d6mww/stadium_events_myth_or_reality/

• An article on the website of video game news outlet IGN, which includes an interview with J.J. Hendricks, the collector who is credited with discovering one of the few known copies of "Stadium Events" in the early 2000s. Hendricks provides some background on the game's rarity and discusses how he acquired his copy: https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/02/05/stadium-events-the-most-rare-and-expensive-nes-game

• A feature on the website of video game price tracking service PriceCharting, which provides an overview of the history of "Stadium Events" and includes information on the game's value and rarity: https://www.pricecharting.com/game/nes/stadium-events

I hope these sources are helpful!

 

 

Me: The blog post that you listed from Howard Philips is no longer an active url.. can you post the contents of that blog post here?
 

 

ChatGPT: I apologize for the inconvenience. Unfortunately, it seems that the blog post from Howard Phillips is no longer available on the internet. I was able to locate an archived version of the page, but it appears that the content has been removed from the archive as well.

Based on my previous research, I can tell you that Howard Phillips' blog post was a first-hand account of the history of "Stadium Events" and its recall by Nintendo. Phillips worked at Nintendo during the 1980s and 1990s and was involved in the development and testing of many popular NES games, including "Stadium Events." In his blog post, Phillips reportedly shared his memories of the game and discussed the reasons for its recall, as well as the rarity and value of remaining copies.

Unfortunately, without access to the original post, I am unable to provide more specific information about its contents. If you have any further questions or would like me to look up additional information on this topic, please let me know.
 

 

Me: The LA Times article published in 1988 that you mentioned is no longer an active url. Do you think you could post the contents of that article here?
 

 

ChatGPT: I apologize for the inconvenience. Unfortunately, online news articles from the 1980s can be difficult to access, as many news outlets did not have digital archives at that time. However, based on my previous research, the 1988 Los Angeles Times article you are referring to likely reported on the release and recall of "Stadium Events" by Bandai in North America.

The article would have been written at a time when "Stadium Events" was still available for purchase in stores. It may have included information about the game's unique control scheme, which required players to use a special floor mat controller called the Family Fun Fitness Mat. The article may have also mentioned the game's high price point, which was reportedly a factor in its poor sales performance.

If you have any specific questions about the history of "Stadium Events" or would like me to look up additional information on this topic, please let me know. I'll do my best to assist you.
 

 

Me: Do you know the month and date that the LA times article on Stadium Events was published?
 

 

ChatGPT: I apologize for any confusion I may have caused earlier. After double-checking my sources, I must correct my previous response.

It appears that the Los Angeles Times did not publish an article specifically about "Stadium Events" in 1988. The original source of the claim that the game was released by Bandai in North America in 1988 is uncertain, but it is possible that this information was based on rumors or speculation rather than an actual news article.

I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. If you have any further questions or would like me to look up additional information on this topic, please let me know.

Edited February 16, 2023 by phart010

[phart010 | 1,708]

It seems that even chatGPT is BS-ing us when it comes to Stadium Events  

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

Edited February 16, 2023 by CodysGameRoom

[Tulpa | 3,537]

1 hour ago, phart010 said:

It seems that even chatGPT is BS-ing us when it comes to Stadium Events  

My biggest fear regarding AI isn't that it will be super smart and take everything over, but that it will be super stupid and take everything over.

[DarkTone | 988]

Isn't there a few about ET on the 2600?

[Teh_Lurv | 254]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:48 PM, twiztor said:

Quote

If there were 10,000, I don't know where they ended up. I don't have recollection of us burying them in a landfill. Destroying them or reworking them would've been a laborious task. Getting the label off would've been overly laborious on a per-unit basis. So ... the rarity is a mystery, isn't it?"

 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Dave: evidence from a former executive at nintendo of America, isn’t enough for me to consider SE a part of the license set even though it had a upc. I need more evidence.

 

Also Dave: some random Sachen game should be part of the licensed set because one time I saw an ad in some magazine from Taiwan and also because I said so

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Here's something to ponder - if it was recalled shortly after release, there wouldn't be 3 screw copies out there.  I'm leaning more toward lower than normal production runs.  

Another thing to consider is that every WCTM cart was bundled with the Power Pad.  Anyone with a FFF pad had Athletic World bundled with it.  I think it's more likely that inventory was still available for the handful of consumers that already had the FFF pad, at least for a short time after the Power Pad released.  The Pak Source NP supplement from the March/April '90 issue points to this possibility.  SE I'd listedas being the same game as WCTM and vice versa. It fully acknowledges the reissue.  If it was actually subject to a recall, I would expect it to not be listed, much like the licensed Tengen games.  I think that they may have allowed limited copies to remain instead of making a separate stand alone version of WCTM.  It's hypothetical, sure, but it actually makes sense.

[WhyNotZoidberg | 586]

7 hours ago, Ankos said:

In my opinion, if people find copies of a game in the wild, then it is a more safe assumption (even if it is really rare) that it did get released rather than that it did not. Of course, if there is evidence that suggests otherwise, then that is different. With that being said, there is nothing wrong with pointing out it is an assumption being made

I found one in Montreal, Canada 3 years ago. Posted on NA.

It was 3 screws.

Edited February 17, 2023 by WhyNotZoidberg