Decoupling the NES from the Famicom

[fcgamer | 4,787]

7 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Okay, which games on the list did you have? And how thoroughly did you play through them?

I'm not trying to catch you in a gotcha or anything, just making sure there's no bias that might be creeping into your argument.

At any rate, plenty of people have played through the majority of the library. But can you give an assessment of the NA exclusives? Like a one or two liner for each? Then others can chime in and we'll see how it stacks up.

I'll do that after you do it for the Sachen library.

Someone else gave a list earlier, which most would agree with: Lolo , the Disney's, StarTropics series would generally be considered good, the game stuff (battleship, wheel of fortune, etc) not particularly good or bad, but where do we go from there? Yikes.

[Tulpa | 3,561]

5 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I'll do that after you do it for the Sachen library.

I don't have a particular opinion on the Sachen library, nor have I made a thread where a core argument has anything to do with the quality of the games.

You on the other hand have posted a thread where you have stated that the western exclusives, in your words, "suck," and am asking you to merely put your money where your mouth is in regards to the arguments made in this thread. Then we can see how others rate the library and come to a consensus as to the quality of the library, which is about as objective a view as we can get given the limits of VGS discussion. This is the sensible path of discourse for at least part of your argument and I assumed you would back up said argument.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,329]

47 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

The NES exclusives are going to be something like this. There might be a few mistakes on it. 

One major one that sticks out is After Burner. That one definitely had an official Famicom release.  Too lazy to scan the rest but there's probably a few others too.

Looking at both lists though, while some definitely could've been released in both markets, there are some that are clearly regional preferences.  Wheel of Fortune wouldn't do so well in Japan, any more than a mahjong or pachinko game would do well in North America.  But the fact remains that you could put any of those games on the other system without issue.  If you took the chips off a Battle City cart and put them onto an equivalent 72 pin PCB, Battle City will run just fine.  And even in the event that a game can't be converted in such a way due to there not being an equivalent board, all one needs to do is correctly set up the pins to match up correctly.  This is all that 60-72 pin converters do - they route the pins so they go to the right places.  The games themselves can be run natively on the hardware.  THAT is why they're the same damn system.  Saying you have a Famicom collection and an NES collection is the same as saying you have a Japanese Saturn collection and a US Saturn collection.  They're simply regional variations of the same console, and the libraries are only separate due to the region they were released in, not because of the hardware itself.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,329]

Also, the quality of the respective libraries has no bearing on whether they are designed for the same hardware or not, which they absolutely are.

Opinions are like assholes.  Everyone's got one, and they all stink.

[fcgamer | 4,787]

Just now, Tulpa said:

I don't have a particular opinion on the Sachen library, nor have I made a thread where a core argument has anything to do with the quality of the games.

You on the other hand have posted a thread where you have stated that the western exclusives, in your words, "suck," and am asking you to merely put your money where your mouth is in regards to the arguments made in this thread. Then we can see how others rate the library and come to a consensus as to the quality of the library, which is about as objective a view as we can get given the limits of VGS discussion. This is the sensible path of discourse for at least part of your argument and I assumed you would back up said argument.

I'm not going to give 800 sentences to say what everybody knows already. If you want, I'll start another thread, and we can all play each game on the list and share our thoughts as to whether it's good or not.

It's ridiculous though, as everyone here loves bashing LJN, and other companies like that, and those were all exclusives for North America.

[fcgamer | 4,787]

11 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

One major one that sticks out is After Burner. That one definitely had an official Famicom release.  Too lazy to scan the rest but there's probably a few others too.

I believe it's like Fantasy Zone, different versions based around a singular engine.

[Tulpa | 3,561]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

I'm not going to give 800 sentences to say what everybody knows already. If you want, I'll start another thread, and we can all play each game on the list and share our thoughts as to whether it's good or not.

Sure. I'd be interested to see the results.

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

It's ridiculous though, as everyone here loves bashing LJN, and other companies like that, and those were all exclusives for North America.

Do we bash LJN? As a whole? Aside from a few noobs parroting AVGN?

[fcgamer | 4,787]

1 minute ago, Tulpa said:

Sure. I'd be interested to see the results.

Do we bash LJN? As a whole? Aside from a few noobs parroting AVGN?

There were a lot of unkind stuff said about (primarily) western exclusives in that "which licensed games feel like unlicensed ones" thread from awhile back.

[fcgamer | 4,787]

That being said, I've always enjoyed Jaws, though I grew up playing it. I wish they would have expanded on it and added a larger over world and stuff. Either way, I prefer it to and would rather play it than Zelda on SNES.

So yeah, you're right, at least one NES exclusive doesn't suck. In fact, I'd throw Jaws in the hidden gems category.

[Tulpa | 3,561]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

There were a lot of unkind stuff said about (primarily) western exclusives in that "which licensed games feel like unlicensed ones" thread from awhile back.

I remember the bulk of the ire was directed at THQ. But I also remember at least sticking up a little for LJN. That some of their games were kind of adventurous. I'm still impressed that R rated horror movies like Friday and Nightmare got NES releases.

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

That being said, I've always enjoyed Jaws, though I grew up playing it. I wish they would have expanded on it and added a larger over world and stuff.

I actually agree with you there. The only thing I wish it had was more ports to visit and a few more things to do.

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

So yeah, you're right, at least one NES exclusive doesn't suck. In fact, I'd throw Jaws in the hidden gems category.

Off the top of my head, the GI Joe (Taxan) game is pretty well regarded. I also enjoy Galaxy 5000, personally.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,329]

5 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I believe it's like Fantasy Zone, different versions based around a singular engine.

https://tcrf.net/After_Burner_(NES)

https://nescartdb.com/profile/view/326/after-burner

https://nescartdb.com/profile/view/3806/after-burner

Based on this, I feel like After Burner's differences are more of an equivalent to Castlevania III, in that changes were made due to differences in the mapper being used between regions rather than because they were making a new game.  The Famicom version was released first, with a more capable mapper chip being used in Japan than the US, much like how Castlevania III required changes to the game to run with an inferior mapper in the US than the Japanese release, notably in the sound department.

[fcgamer | 4,787]

2 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Off the top of my head, the GI Joe (Taxan) game is pretty well regarded. I also enjoy Galaxy 5000, personally.

Yes GI Joe would be another one that is highly thought of from the exclusives. I enjoyed playing Galaxy as well.

My point still stands though, the vast majority of these exclusives wouldn't appear in a top 100 list or possibly even a top 300 list.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,617]

Power Blade and Kick Master are both sweet.  But I'd be incredulous that they're NA exclusives...

 

Also, Marble Madness and Spy Hunter and QBert and Battletoads Double Dragon and StarTropics and Qix and Overlord and Nightshade and...

[fcgamer | 4,787]

Just now, the_wizard_666 said:

https://tcrf.net/After_Burner_(NES)

https://nescartdb.com/profile/view/326/after-burner

https://nescartdb.com/profile/view/3806/after-burner

Based on this, I feel like After Burner's differences are more of an equivalent to Castlevania III, in that changes were made due to differences in the mapper being used between regions rather than because they were making a new game.  The Famicom version was released first, with a more capable mapper chip being used in Japan than the US, much like how Castlevania III required changes to the game to run with an inferior mapper in the US than the Japanese release, notably in the sound department.

This is possible, I wasn't the one who made the list so I'm not sure the author's rational for it

[Reed Rothchild | 9,617]

Built to Win?  That's like the definition of a hidden gem.  Come on, man.  I'm not even an NES guy, and have no dog in this fight, but this list has dozens of winners 

[Tulpa | 3,561]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

My point still stands though, the vast majority of these exclusives wouldn't appear in a top 100 list or possibly even a top 300 list.

Which is why I'd like to see if there's a consensus on that.

[fcgamer | 4,787]

4 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Which is why I'd like to see if there's a consensus on that.

The easiest way would be to take a look at several top 100 lists and see what does (or doesn't) appear. This would likely remove any sort of bias that we might personally have, for the sake of making a point.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,096]

6 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

The easiest way would be to take a look at several top 100 lists and see what does (or doesn't) appear. This would likely remove any sort of bias that we might personally have, for the sake of making a point.

Here's a Top 100 NES from gamefaqs, compiled from many years of voting.  I'll leave you to do the data matching and analysis, Dave

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/916386-nes/51440644

Also, Krazy Kreatures rules!!!

[Tulpa | 3,561]

I'm not sure a top 100 would be of much use, as (IMO) there's more than 100 good games on the NES. At least top 300 is almost half of the licensed library.

But I'm still after like actual reviews instead of a ranked list. Get actual impressions before pronouncing a game as "awesome/awful."

Edited January 10, 2023 by Tulpa

[JamesRobot | 5,843]

Man, quit with all that jibjab tryhardin' to break up the band, yoko.  

[fcgamer | 4,787]

21 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Also, Krazy Kreatures rules!!!

I agree, I really enjoy that one too!

[Tulpa | 3,561]

Can this thread now be about how cool Krazy Kreatures is? Because I like that game, too.

[phart010 | 1,710]

7 hours ago, phart010 said:

These are the NES exclusives that matter (in my opinion):

1. Alfred Chicken
2. Arkistas Ring
3. Battletoads and Double Dragon
4. Contra Force
5. Cobra Triangle
6. Darkwing Duck
7. Felix the Cat
8. Flintstones 2
9. GI Joe
10. Gumshoe
11. Kickmaster
12. Kiwi Kraze
13. Lone Ranger 
14. Lolo 1
15. Star Tropics 1/2
16. Strider
17. Zen Intergalactic Ninja

@fcgamerthese are the worthwhile US exclusives. There’s more, but these are probably the dank.

I like Jaws, but didn’t include it because that could just be my nostalgia 

Edited January 10, 2023 by phart010

[fcgamer | 4,787]

16 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I'm not sure a top 100 would be of much use, as (IMO) there's more than 100 good games on the NES. At least top 300 is almost half of the licensed library.

But I'm still after like actual reviews instead of a ranked list. Get actual impressions before pronouncing a game as "awesome/awful."

I think a lot of these are going to be mediocre at best. 

29 minutes ago, phart010 said:

@fcgamerthese are the worthwhile US exclusives. There’s more, but these are probably the dank.

I like Jaws, but didn’t include it because that could just be my nostalgia 

Yeah I think your list is spot on, aside from Magic Kingdom and Talespin, I think they definitely deserve to be on the list.

[fcgamer | 4,787]

MC kids I think is also worthy of a play, but it's one of those games that could have been great but falls short due to gameplay design.