Game Debate #97: Castlevania Symphony of the Night

[Sumez | 2,967]

This game has been one of my very very few 10/10 picks for a couple of decades, but recently it's dropped to maybe a 9/10. It's hard for me to look at really objectively, and for this poll I decided to keep it at 10, just to acknowledge how big of a thing this game was to me.

Obviously, nowadays SOTN is less of a unique experience with so many games today mimicking a lot of its aspects, but at the same time it takes only a new playthrough to realise that the game indeed still is something very special. And I have long since lost count of how many replays I've given it.

On a personal level, the classic Castlevania games (CV3 and Rondo especially) are closer to my heart, but man - SOTN is just such a fantastic display of pure excess in terms of content and amazing details, but even though the gameplay is held somewhat back by how much of a pushover the game is, there is still enough facets to tweak in order to truly challenge yourself in endless unique ways. The game is a playground moreso than a tighly designed game, but as far as videogame playgrounds go, they don't come much better than Symphony of the Night.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,547]

@Sumez Welcome back.  We did Deadly Premonition and some others in the meantime.

[Sumez | 2,967]

2 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

@Sumez Welcome back.  We did Deadly Premonition and some others in the meantime.

Must be pretty terrible going for months without me to tell you how you need to feel about Deadly Premonition. But don't worry, I'll be sure to clean up!

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

On 4/14/2022 at 2:04 PM, mbd39 said:

I voted 6. I've always been more of a linear Castlevania guy. I never could get into this one.

I gave it a 9. I prefer the linear games as well, but this is still a great game. The fact that had the patience to keep playing until I got the full 200.6% completion says a lot . 

[rdrunner | 422]

Main Castle: 10/10 - If the game had stopped here, putting the Dracula fight in the last room instead of a teleporter, it would have been perfect.  Loved the story, the pacing, and all the abilities and items that unlock new areas.  As much as I hate the term, I can see how this game led to the "Metroidvania" craze.  And the music!  One of the best gaming soundtracks of all time.

Inverted Castle: 8/10 - What happened?  Everything I just said was thrown out the window in favor of what felt like a gimmick.  Little or no cutscenes to speak of, almost the entire castle is accessible right away, and almost every area uses one of the same two songs.  Still a good game, but wow what a dropoff.

Overall average: 9/10

[NostalgicMachine | 238]

SoTN is a 10/10 game for me. It's a timeless masterpiece.

[phart010 | 1,707]

17 hours ago, rdrunner said:

Main Castle: 10/10 - If the game had stopped here, putting the Dracula fight in the last room instead of a teleporter, it would have been perfect.  Loved the story, the pacing, and all the abilities and items that unlock new areas.  As much as I hate the term, I can see how this game led to the "Metroidvania" craze.  And the music!  One of the best gaming soundtracks of all time.

Inverted Castle: 8/10 - What happened?  Everything I just said was thrown out the window in favor of what felt like a gimmick.  Little or no cutscenes to speak of, almost the entire castle is accessible right away, and almost every area uses one of the same two songs.  Still a good game, but wow what a dropoff.

Overall average: 9/10

The inverted castle was an afterthought. It’s an unpolished bonus. Take it or leave it

[Gloves | 11,791]

1 minute ago, phart010 said:

The inverted castle was an afterthought. It’s an unpolished bonus. Take it or leave it

Some of gaming's best things come from unpolished bonuses, e.g. Goldeneye's multiplayer.

[rdrunner | 422]

11 hours ago, phart010 said:

The inverted castle was an afterthought. It’s an unpolished bonus. Take it or leave it

Maybe I'd view it differently if I had hit one of the "bad" endings in my first playthrough, but I got to the inverted castle without ever seeing one.  So I naturally assumed it was part of the intended game.

I have a hard time calling half the game map a "bonus", especially when you need to play through at least some of it to get the good ending.

Anyway, it's a minor problem.  This is still a great game, no doubt about that!

[phart010 | 1,707]

14 hours ago, rdrunner said:

Maybe I'd view it differently if I had hit one of the "bad" endings in my first playthrough, but I got to the inverted castle without ever seeing one.  So I naturally assumed it was part of the intended game.

I have a hard time calling half the game map a "bonus", especially when you need to play through at least some of it to get the good ending.

Anyway, it's a minor problem.  This is still a great game, no doubt about that!

My brothers and I played the game when it first came out and thought we beat it when we killed Richter. We only came back to it months later after reading a Game Informer magazine showing how to get the inverted castle. 
 

I imagine many people back in the day did the same thing, they just stopped playing after beating Richter.

The inverted castle brings nothing new in terms of map, it’s an exact duplicate. Also, if you look at the regular castle, every area has a different music track. In the inverted castle, most areas share the same music. There’s also a ton of reuse of enemies from the regular castle. They only really made new bosses and some enemies for the inverted castle. It was very low effort on Konami’s part

[Reed Rothchild | 9,547]

Doesn't killing Richter give a game over screen?  I cannot recall.

[Sumez | 2,967]

It gives you an ending, but it's very clearly a bad one

The clues for how to reach the inverted castle are quite obscure though, I'm surprised to hear anyone did it first try.

[Webhead123 | 679]

20 hours ago, Sumez said:

It gives you an ending, but it's very clearly a bad one

The clues for how to reach the inverted castle are quite obscure though, I'm surprised to hear anyone did it first try.

It's been over 5 years since I played it but...I'm pretty sure I uncovered the inverted castle by natural exploration. I knew *about* the inversion but I had never played the game previously and didn't use any guides, so I don't know. Maybe I just got lucky or I had subconsciously heard clues about how to unlock it. I really don't even remember how to do it.

What I *did not do*, however, was try to go for full % completion. That was a bit too much SotN for me. 

[phart010 | 1,707]

15 hours ago, Webhead123 said:

What I *did not do*, however, was try to go for full % completion. That was a bit too much SotN for me. 

That’s another thing there.. the completion counter can be gotten up to 100% in the regular castle alone. If you were not already aware of the inverted castle, you could mistakenly think that you 100 percented the game by only playing the regular castle.. well actually you can 100% it, but that doesn’t really qualify when there’s actually 200% to get (actually there’s even more if you count the glitch areas).

Edited April 22, 2022 by phart010

[Sumez | 2,967]

It's not even glitch areas.  Getting 200% exactly is probably harder than anything right above or below. You get 200.6% by outlining every room in both castles the "normal" way (ie. vacuuming top corners of upside-down water pools), while the glitch areas of course can bump up that number significantly.

[elprincipe | 142]

10. By far the best Playstation game and one of the greatest games ever made. Yes, it borrows somewhat from games like Metroid but it's very distinctive in its own right, and the gameplay and certainly the music deserve special mention.

Anyone have a favorite track from the masterful soundtrack? Mine is:

 

[rdrunner | 422]

12 hours ago, elprincipe said:

10. By far the best Playstation game and one of the greatest games ever made. Yes, it borrows somewhat from games like Metroid but it's very distinctive in its own right, and the gameplay and certainly the music deserve special mention.

Anyone have a favorite track from the masterful soundtrack? Mine is:

 

My favorite as well!  This game has lots of great tracks, but this one really stands out.

[fox | 1,668]

Oh man too many good tracks.  The entire OST slaps.

You have the epic choir in the church, the harpsichord in the library, the smooth jazz bass in the arena, and that guitar shredding on bloody tears.

[elprincipe | 142]

OK I've got to add my second favorite track as well!

 

[NostalgicMachine | 238]

On 4/19/2022 at 12:03 PM, phart010 said:

The inverted castle was an afterthought. It’s an unpolished bonus. Take it or leave it

I personally love it, and always have. It takes away nothing for me, and adds another reason to keep playing. After all, it's all about the gameplay first and foremost for me!

The only thing that sucks in hindsight is loading times .

[wongojack | 217]

Well, I just played this game for the very first time, and I wrote about it in the "Games Beaten" thread here:  https://www.videogamesage.com/forums/topic/204-games-you-have-beaten-recently/?do=findComment&comment=390863

Unfortunately, I think the length and overwhelming amount of useless content detracts a bit too much from the game to leave a very good lasting opinion.  My score on a 10-point scale is a 6, but I'll give it a 4 out 5.  I think the mistake that I made was trying to go for 200.6% completion.  I was on my way there already even without ever looking at a map online.  I guess several decades of playing games in this genre have taught me how to find and unlock secrets but getting to 200.6% was a serious chore and all the items you pick up stopped being interesting at about 95% or so.

About the inverted castle, it was cool for like the first 20 mins to an hour, but the total lack of new discoveries or story just killed it.  It could be saved if the bosses were any sort of challenge, but the biggest challenge is figuring out how to kill everything without opening that painful inventory.

I was playing the Xbox version and got all the achievements except 2.  One is to defeat Dracula without taking damage in the opening sequence, and the other is to unlock all those silly spells.  I may get back to try and accomplish those two things at some point, but I'm in no hurry.

[wongojack | 217]

On 4/24/2022 at 1:55 AM, elprincipe said:

OK I've got to add my second favorite track as well!

 

Whenever that would play, my wife and I couldn't stop hearing this song from the comedy movie "Eurovision."

 

Edited January 4 by wongojack

[Sumez | 2,967]

20 minutes ago, wongojack said:

My score on a 10-point scale is a 6, but I'll give it a 4 out 5. 

[wongojack | 217]

1 hour ago, Sumez said:

Yeah, it doesn't quite match, but I like whole numbers in these sorts of things.

[Gentlegamer | 174]

3 hours ago, Sumez said: