Super Mario 3D All Stars Reveal

[Code Monkey | 2,008]

3 hours ago, RH said:

Completely unrelated, but I wonder if Nintendo outsourced the porting work for at least SM64 to a third party.  There's a chance they turned over an old hard drive snapshot and.... those were the guys targeted and the source of that Nintendo leak in July.

I could be way off base, but that source leak was so random and it really felt like someone, somehow, managed to get a hold of an old Nintendo server back up.  Who knows, maybe Nintendo chucked a bunch of old back up tapes and someone resourceful kid dumpster dove and found they hardware to dump the data off of a disk or two.  But, if that's not the case, I wonder if that leak was due to a 3rd party, and I wonder if it's because after signing numerous NDAs, Nintendo just gave them an old hard drive or snapshot of a big disk from 1998.

Many of the files from the leak were pulled from email attachments so it's more likely someone just got into the server and looked in the sent folder.

[RH | 4,903]

56 minutes ago, ChickenTendas said:

That's not what I meant. When the end of March rolls around Nintendo could totally go back on their word. Didn't they do the same thing with the first All-Stars limited edition? And besides there's stuff we won't know until the game releases. There's a possibility that it isn't even a port of 64 with a few changes, it could just be a port of the upgraded Shindo Taio version. Right now the "changes" to 64 are added rumble support, fixed bugs and glitches including the BLJ, and the "So long-eh Bowser!" voice clip changed to "Buh-bye" all of which were present in Shindo Taio.

I'm just disappointed because it looks as if they've done the bare minimum. By comparison Metal Gear Solid: The Legacy Collection released for $50 in 2013. Included in the set was 8 games, two Metal Gear Solid digital novels that were dubbed and released for the first time in English exclusively for the set, and a promotional art booklet. That is how you do an anniversary. The Playstation 4 is nearing the end of its lifespan and Sony just released two of the best games on the system. And then Nintendo responds with a trio of ports with a few minor changes. They obviously have more up their sleeve for next year but as of right now 2017 remains the king in terms of first party releases on Switch.

And to answer Reed's question, yes I'd have loved some of the extra content from 64 DS to make it in. Maybe not the added minigames or stars but 64 DS introduced a local multiplayer mode that allowed up to four players to play simultaneously. This was both a fun addition and would work well with the Switch's main selling point.

I still think Nintendo intended for there to be more as part of this bundle but COVID likely stalled development.  They had already teased the product so I am guessing they trimmed back their plans.  But, with that said, there is the small chance that while they were making the marketing release video they weren't finished with the game.  Maybe there will be additional, small bonuses here and there or even additional DLC between now and March.  I agree it feels like they phoned this one in, but we also have to consider that they, like every other company in the world, probably had to learn to adjust to remote work these past 6 months.  This assumption could be wrong if they didn't shut their offices down, but if they did, I could see it being difficult on the Japanese.  Their homes are so much smaller and if their workers have children, I could just see it being a bit more difficult for them to get their work done as it is for the rest of us in the world.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

On 9/10/2020 at 6:02 AM, OptOut said:

Emulation = Original code running in a virtual machine.

Port = Original code rewritten to run natively on a new machine, with greater or fewer changes to the code made as necessary.

Remake = Ground up rebuilding of the entire game from scratch. 

 

So, the original Super Mario All-stars on SNES is a remake. This 3D All-stars would be a port. The Wii Super Mario All-stars was emulation.

Thanks for the breakdown.

All 3 games are confirmed emulation. Crazy that every one n they mom cried port before release. But that's the internet for you.

Of course more could have been done but the port cry was ultimately incorrect.

[OptOut | 8,884]

21 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Thanks for the breakdown.

All 3 games are confirmed emulation. Crazy that every one n they mom cried port before release. But that's the internet for you.

Of course more could have been done but the port cry was ultimately incorrect.

I literally just watched that video and was about to post it here, lol!

Yeah, so it sounds like there are some various tricks and bells added to the emulations, at least for 64 and Galaxy. But, yeah this is a very bare-bones release.

Ultimately, however, the proof is in the playing. I'm gonna be getting a copy on Friday, so we'll see how it pans out once it's in hand. All I'm looking for is a smooth, fresh and authentic feeling experience with the games I already know and love. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by OptOut

[phart010 | 1,707]

Even if it’s emulation, it could still have tweaks. The game has a GameCube/Wii/N64 emulator. It’s playing game roms/ISO’s.

Just as you can tweak an emulator to add graphics filters and effects, or you can hack a rom file to add content into a game, Nintendo can do the same. People have made extreme enhancements to roms, simple unnoticed optimizations, etc. Game gear roms have been hacked to increase resolution to Master System full screen resolution..
 

I could still see them optimizing Mario 64 to full screen even with it being emulation. I don’t know if there’s a business case to justify them spending their resources, time and money on doing so, but it’s certainly still possible

[Tanooki | 4,933]

So it is like kind of what I was saying then where I was thinking they used the emulator cores from the chinese shield/switch system which runs Wii and GC stuff (even Galaxy IS on that over there.)  Those emulators do add a little, clean up a little, boost the games a little, but at their core part or all is run by an emulator.  Mario 64 clearly would have had to be, but even that in the end, it's only mostly emulated for a lack of a better way.

Each of them have new art assets for the new buttons and other tidbits, and Mario 64 also had the old art redone/re-run through some tools to make them absolutely sharp and clean in HDMI levels instead of a fuzzy blurry pixelated mess upscaling would do, and if you watch it is the Shindou release so it had the bug fixes and rumble too.

 

For the price it's a great package.  My regret, that awesome soundtrack I guess is stuck on the card.  Damn shame you can't get physical CDs or some MP3 download offer.  I have the old Mario 64 CD, MP3'd it for my phone, would love to do the same for the other two.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

So it is like kind of what I was saying then where I was thinking they used the emulator cores from the chinese shield/switch system which runs Wii and GC stuff (even Galaxy IS on that over there.)

For Galaxy and Sunshine it looks like it's coming from an in house, Nintendo emulation team from Europe referred to as NERD. 

MVG breaks it down in the video but basically this may be the gateway to Nintendo successfully releasing more Wii and GCN games on Switch through these emulators. 

There are already pirates trying to inject other games into the emulators. 

[Tanooki | 4,933]

It's possible, but wouldn't it also be possible that NERD did the APKs for the Chinese Nintendo/Nvidia handheld?  They've been their go-to emulator crew for quite a few years going back to the pre-eShop days and both their mini consoles too.

I don't even bet, can't afford it and don't care for the risk, but if I were I would bet that's where the bones, if not entire more or less emulator was ripped from.  It was developed a few years back and very finely tuned to run Mario Galaxy already as it is in that Nvidia device in China at HD resolution without flaw.  Punch-Out!! and a few other Wii and GC games got the treatemen too, around 4-6+ as word out of there seems moderately sketchy as usual from china.  Another of those games was Twilight Princess, perhaps some of that was even lifted for the WiiU bump in quality.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

48 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

It's possible, but wouldn't it also be possible that NERD did the APKs for the Chinese Nintendo/Nvidia handheld?  They've been their go-to emulator crew for quite a few years going back to the pre-eShop days and both their mini consoles too.

From what I took away from the video, the way the upscale is rendered is different than any emulator has done it so far. It's calling the part that needs to be render only when it needs to be. I believe the has improvements were permanent fixes, not on call renders.

MVG has videos where he goes over N64 emulation in depth and specifically looks Mario 64. There are a lot of impressive ways to emulate Mario 64, but none of them look like they like up with how the team at NERD decided to take it. From what he exposed today, it seems to be unique.

With that said, I'm sure the team knows a ton of different emulations of n64 since, it's their job lol so I'm sure they've been inspired by different means their whole career.

[phart010 | 1,707]

48 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

From what I took away from the video, the way the upscale is rendered is different than any emulator has done it so far. It's calling the part that needs to be render only when it needs to be. I believe the has improvements were permanent fixes, not on call renders.

MVG has videos where he goes over N64 emulation in depth and specifically looks Mario 64. There are a lot of impressive ways to emulate Mario 64, but none of them look like they like up with how the team at NERD decided to take it. From what he exposed today, it seems to be unique.

With that said, I'm sure the team knows a ton of different emulations of n64 since, it's their job lol so I'm sure they've been inspired by different means their whole career.

Now that I think of it, Nintendo already made an N64 emulator on Wii and on GameCube.
 

I have no doubt they made a fresh N64 emulator to run on Switch. But if they wanted to go truly cheap, they could have just done the GameCube and Wii emulator. Then they could take Ocarina of Time on GameCube and swap the rom with Mario 64. Or they could have run Mario 64 on Wii virtual console.

The fact that they made a new emulator on Switch makes me think that they have more plans for the N64 emulator than just this one game

[Tanooki | 4,933]

57 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

From what I took away from the video, the way the upscale is rendered is different than any emulator has done it so far. It's calling the part that needs to be render only when it needs to be. I believe the has improvements were permanent fixes, not on call renders.

MVG has videos where he goes over N64 emulation in depth and specifically looks Mario 64. There are a lot of impressive ways to emulate Mario 64, but none of them look like they like up with how the team at NERD decided to take it. From what he exposed today, it seems to be unique.

With that said, I'm sure the team knows a ton of different emulations of n64 since, it's their job lol so I'm sure they've been inspired by different means their whole career.

I know I saw the same info.  The Chinese version of Galaxy does the same as the SM3DAS version on Switch.  It's a hybrid of executing native code on the system vs emulation of other parts.  That perhaps may be why Galaxy 2 is excluded since one is a plug and play drop one system A to system B (Android vs Switches bastard Android OS) so it would almost make too much sense not to be true.  Maybe that's also why they only went as far as 3 games and having Sunshine as they needed the middle and the gamecube is the root of the Wii anyway, just clocked lower being rough about it, so they could re-use the assets as a partial recode/partial emulation setup.

I know Mario 64 is strange, but hey, we saw the stolen code dump that ended up for making basically a legit version of the game without crossing the line how it was done for PC etc.  Maybe they're using their own dump and redoing things right for Switch if it really is unique.  MVG is not bad, but he's not perfect and he's still looking from the outside in.  He could be right, but anything could be on the table.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

52 minutes ago, phart010 said:

The fact that they made a new emulator on Switch makes me think that they have more plans for the N64 emulator than just this one game

My thoughts exactly. The patent for the N64 controller was renewed awhile ago that sparked the N64 mini rumors. Now I'm inclined to think it might be a switch controller like we've got with the NES and SNES and the launch of their virtual consoles. 

Fingers crossed this is their way of testing the waters in N64 emulation and we get a full N64 virtual console to go along w the price of their online subscription. Imagine a world with online multiplayer Golden Eye. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by RegularGuyGamer

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

On 9/10/2020 at 4:40 PM, ChickenTendas said:

 

EDIT: Alright, yeah I think I was wrong. There could a be million reasons as to why they decided to release it this way. Nintendo could have upcoming plans to make these games available as a non-bundle, they could add them to Switch Online, they could have another console in the works, they could have another bundle coming out and don't want to lose sales, the list goes on. Juggling extra projects would also explain why there isn't really any extra content included. I don't work at Nintendo nor do I know what their motives are or what their schedule looks like so claiming that it's a cashgrab or that it's lazy isn't really fair and it's kind of jumping to conclusions.

 

Don't over think it, man. Nintendo made a Mario bundle that they know will sell on their extremely popular system. If you're happy spending $60 on getting 3 great games upscaled to HD then buy it. If you think it's lazy, don't like the limited sale window, or are happy with the original games just pass on it.

I would have zero concern about missing out or finding a used copy down the road. This is a 1st party Nintendo collection - They'll print a ton of these even if it is only until the end of March. 

[Sumez | 2,950]

13 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

All 3 games are confirmed emulation. Crazy that every one n they mom cried port before release. But that's the internet for you.

Not just the internet though. Nintendo's original promo video presented the games as being "upgraded to run smoothly on Switch" which is fair to assume meant they were ports. Which is also the only meager way you could justify a cashgrab like that.

Three emulated games on a disc card for a premium price seems excessive.

[Sumez | 2,950]

 

5 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Fingers crossed this is their way of testing the waters in N64 emulation and we get a full N64 virtual console to go along w the price of their online subscription.

Didn't they already demonstrate near-perfect N64 emulation on the GameCube and Wii?

[phart010 | 1,707]

3 hours ago, Sumez said:

 

Didn't they already demonstrate near-perfect N64 emulation on the GameCube and Wii?

Maybe they are going for better-than-perfect with this

[OptOut | 8,884]

3 hours ago, Sumez said:

 

Didn't they already demonstrate near-perfect N64 emulation on the GameCube and Wii?

No. The GameCube Oot and MM emulations were prone to occasional crashing, if I remember correctly. Meanwhile, the Wii virtual console basically used a different emulator tweaked for each specific N64 game released on the system, and in terms of accuracy, the timing and framerate etc. were off on most of the games.

N64 emulation is HARD. I am VERY interested to see how that N64 retron emulator handles it, and I DON'T have high hopes, frankly!

[OptOut | 8,884]

13 minutes ago, ChickenTendas said:

That's the thing though, they did the absolute bare minimum here. You can clearly tell this project was rushed along and had a very small team working on it. The silver lining to this is that Nintendo may have just given Switch hackers the boost they need for 60fps Gamecube emulation.

I think I heard these all run at 30fps, but don't quote me on that...

[Deadeye | 1,596]

It's too early IMO for a lot of this.  For game performance, you don't know yet.  Patching on day one, don't know yet.  Outside of the game for hackers, don't know yet.  Free DLC, don't know yet.  Everyone seems to have these firm opinions based on second hand information from one person who dumped the cart or leaked the files.  Wait until a week after release.  At least then you have some information to go off of.   

[RH | 4,903]

Well, I agree with the general sentiments that I wish they invested a little more time into this and I wish it had more features and polish.  But, with that said, I am one of those people that's pumped to play all of these games on my Switch since my Switch is primarily a handheld gaming system.

It's 2 days until release day.  I pre-ordered a pair online.  If anyone gets there copy today or tomorrow, let us know!

[RH | 4,903]

3 minutes ago, Deadeye said:

It's too early IMO for a lot of this.  For game performance, you don't know yet.  Patching on day one, don't know yet.  Outside of the game for hackers, don't know yet.  Free DLC, don't know yet.  Everyone seems to have these firm opinions based on second hand information from one person who dumped the cart or leaked the files.  Wait until a week after release.  At least then you have some information to go off of.   

I'm really hoping this happens. I always hate the use of DLC for long-term usability, but if they patch it to improve textures or add other awesome bonuses, I'm all for it.  I hope there's at least one "fun" DLC/patch.

[phart010 | 1,707]

30 minutes ago, ChickenTendas said:

That's the thing though, they did the absolute bare minimum here. You can clearly tell this project was rushed along and had a very small team working on it. The silver lining to this is that Nintendo may have just given Switch hackers the boost they need for 60fps Gamecube emulation.

At this point it’s too early to say. You could be right, but we should at least play the game before making conclusive statements

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

5 hours ago, OptOut said:

Meanwhile, the Wii virtual console basically used a different emulator tweaked for each specific N64 game released on the system, and in terms of accuracy, the timing and framerate etc. were off on most of the games.

Yeah the emulators on the Wii were a mess. It shows their dedication to the VC that they even put in the effort to make unique emulators for each game. Hopefully the ones they're using on the 35th anniversary game can have other files injected into them without any issues. 

[phart010 | 1,707]

Strange.. people are buying this game on eBay for $140+ even while it is still available for preorder at retail pro e from Best Buy

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

1 hour ago, Deadeye said:

It's too early IMO for a lot of this.  For game performance, you don't know yet.  Patching on day one, don't know yet.  Outside of the game for hackers, don't know yet.  Free DLC, don't know yet.  Everyone seems to have these firm opinions based on second hand information from one person who dumped the cart or leaked the files.  Wait until a week after release.  At least then you have some information to go off of.   

But this is the internet! We're here for the outrage