1.25 Years later, my thoughts & questions on my first WATA submission.

[GPX | 1,369]

3 minutes ago, Blues2013 said:

If anyone knows please just holler at me. 
when grading a card at Beckett or PSA you can go to the website and see the population report just by typing in that players name and or card year and series and you get a list of how many cards have been graded in that condition and/or higher or lower. The lower the pop and the less graded higher,the more rare and valuable and vise versa for the lower condition, so does anyone know for WATA or VGA is there a population report out for the graded games? I’m looking on the website and found nothing if these companies are grading these games they should have that information on record or can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

VGA has stated they plan to have a pop report sometime by end of this year with an updated website. WATA has stated they don’t plan on giving out pop reports as “our company is still new and giving out pop reports might mislead consumers of what is rare and what isn’t”.

[tidaldreams | 654]

25 minutes ago, Blues2013 said:

If anyone knows please just holler at me. 
when grading a card at Beckett or PSA you can go to the website and see the population report just by typing in that players name and or card year and series and you get a list of how many cards have been graded in that condition and/or higher or lower. The lower the pop and the less graded higher,the more rare and valuable and vise versa for the lower condition, so does anyone know for WATA or VGA is there a population report out for the graded games? I’m looking on the website and found nothing if these companies are grading these games they should have that information on record or can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Not necessarily true. There are tones of charizards, pikachus, etc. graded yet they still command some of the highest values. In contrast, there are some cards that are dirt common and no one has graded them so they are worthless. 

[Blues2013 | 2]

thanks everyone for the info on the no pop report, and Not sure what a charizard/pikachus is but I’ll take your word for it.

[tidaldreams | 654]

43 minutes ago, Blues2013 said:

thanks everyone for the info on the no pop report, and Not sure what a charizard/pikachus is but I’ll take your word for it.

I dunno what they are either tbh 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

10 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

So.... the reason to get a game graded... is so that someone knows what condition it is in... without seeing it.

So you a company tons of money... so that someone who can't see a game... knows the condition?

Take a step back and ask yourself how ridiculous that sounds. Why does someone who can't see a game care about what condition it is in? This thought process literally makes no sense.

Getting a game graded works to preserve it in whatever condition it's ultimately in when grading is completed.  It's also handy for people who ultimately want to cash out, as people in the know about such things should know what to expect when a certain grade is mentioned, so the number of tire kickers, requests for 18,000x more photos, in person handling/review of the item, etc. is generally avoided.  Doesn't really sound at all ridiculous to me, and I could give less than two shits about having anything I own or have ever owned graded.  Some people do it because their stuff is museum quality and they want it to stay that way, some do it because they see it (especially now) as an easy way to quickly grab some cash.  I don't appreciate the latter type these days, given what it's done to prices across the board, but it's really not hard to understand their motivation and absolutely not ridiculous given the number of verified $ucce$$ stories we've seen in the last couple of years.  If you really, honestly, truly don't get it, just say so, otherwise it might be time to stop slinging mud at something you just don't care for.  To each their own, as far as collectors go.

10 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I see people pick apart these grades constantly. It's almost like these companies aren't actually experts at what they do because there is no possible way to actually stick to a correct scale....  Almost like they shouldn't be being paid money to do this because it's not really possible to do what they are claiming to do... 

It's mostly because with video games, there's no absolutely transparent guide to what graders are always looking for, what will guaranteed dock you points, etc., the way there is in other areas where people have stuff graded (cards, comics, etc.).  And unfortunately, the video game graders aren't forthcoming.  So, you constantly have "experts" and non-"experts" alike trying to share notes and do what they can to come up with some sort of common ground idea of what things should grade like, usually to have an idea of what they should bother to send in and what they should just keep on-hand, since it's not really cheap anymore to grade everything.  A lot of the complaining you'll see among people who had stuff graded is because of the lack of transparency and the fact that without a concrete, set-in-stone guide on how to grade these things, everything is subjective to the grader.  You might have the "master" grader at each company doing things exactly the same way, and always "right," but the lower "grade" (ha ha) ones being all over the place.  And not being able to tell for sure who did what to each item (again, due to lack of transparency) just fuels the frustration over this type of crap.  I'm sure some of the inconsistency has come due to people on the inside just being balls-to-the-wall with volume over the last couple of years or so, but it's not really acceptable to seeming consistently (and at an accelerating rate) see consistency and quality of the grading going on slip further and further.  No grading company has ever started out with all "experts," and usually they've had the "master" ones checking everybody else's work after completion to a certain point, but, again with the transparency, we have no idea if this is happening with video games or not.

[inasuma | 1,203]

22 hours ago, tidaldreams said:

Not necessarily true. There are tones of charizards, pikachus, etc. graded yet they still command some of the highest values. In contrast, there are some cards that are dirt common and no one has graded them so they are worthless. 

this is a tangent but i remember vividly when poketubers were really starting to pick up, i watched this newer guy unironically tell his viewers to grade all the commons, uncommons, and holo rares. That way you have the strongest position in the market. You know, for all the cards no one gives a shit about.  Capitalism baby!

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

23 hours ago, GPX said:

Cody, I have a hunch that, I dunno, maybe you’re not into graded games? 

Personally I'm not into grading games, no. I do see the appeal of taking a sealed copy of a childhood favorite and keeping it in a case to preserve it and admire it. But I wouldn't pay someone to do that. And I personally don't feel the need for someone else's opinion on what condition my games are in, let alone pay for that opinion. I cherish my minty games just as much as the ones with a torn label. 

23 hours ago, GPX said:

Seems like whatever sensible replies you receive, you have an auto-rejection process in your mind that no answer is good enough.

I mean I've been hearing the arguments FOR grading for years and unless you are a flipper/investor it just really doesn't make sense to me. Like, I GET it, I guess. But I still don't really see why.

23 hours ago, GPX said:

At the end of the day, people collect how they want to collect, it’s really that simple. And whoever collects what, they do it because it meets their personal interest and challenge, some degree of profit perhaps, or all the above.

I'm not gatekeeping it. Grade if you wanna grade. You do you. Lots of people do lots of things that make no sense to me. 

 

23 hours ago, GPX said:

Also, I want to speak on behalf of the graded collectors that not all of us collect with the intention to sell everything. There are a lot of what I have graded is staying with me as my display pieces for my future mancave. I’ve shown a few pics on this forum and those games aren’t for sale in mind.

Just an honest, question, if you are going to keep them forever as display pieces, what does the grade matter? Just personal satisfaction?

Someone said earlier the purpose of the grade was so that someone who hasn't seen it in person can determine the condition. But if you are keeping it forever that becomes moot so why not just put it in an acrylic case yourself, and save the time and money you would have used on paying to grade it and use that cash towards other things for your collection? I feel like that's an honest question. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

19 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

If you really, honestly, truly don't get it, just say so, otherwise it might be time to stop slinging mud at something you just don't care for.  To each their own, as far as collectors go.

Meh, I get it. I'll continue to sling mud though. 

[GPX | 1,369]

9 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Personally I'm not into grading games, no. I do see the appeal of taking a sealed copy of a childhood favorite and keeping it in a case to preserve it and admire it. But I wouldn't pay someone to do that. And I personally don't feel the need for someone else's opinion on what condition my games are in, let alone pay for that opinion. I cherish my minty games just as much as the ones with a torn label. 

I mean I've been hearing the arguments FOR grading for years and unless you are a flipper/investor it just really doesn't make sense to me. Like, I GET it, I guess. But I still don't really see why.

I'm not gatekeeping it. Grade if you wanna grade. You do you. Lots of people do lots of things that make no sense to me. 

 

Just an honest, question, if you are going to keep them forever as display pieces, what does the grade matter? Just personal satisfaction?

Someone said earlier the purpose of the grade was so that someone who hasn't seen it in person can determine the condition. But if you are keeping it forever that becomes moot so why not just put it in an acrylic case yourself, and save the time and money you would have used on paying to grade it and use that cash towards other things for your collection? I feel like that's an honest question. 

The problem is that you’re assuming there’s only one reason to grade when I feel there are often multiple reasons to grade at any given time:

1. Preserve condition

2. Display piece

3. Giving the game a more objective point of reference to its condition

4. Following from point 3, it's more convenient and easier to sell in the foreseeable future, as future buyers will have a general idea what to expect.

—————————

Just to further my explanation, I don’t grade all my sealed games. Some sealed games will forever remain ungraded (as long as they’re with me), and the ones I sent off for grading  have multiple reasons in the above. Each game has their own context of why I want to grade them (any combo to the 4 points above); some as part of my personal collection, and some for future resell.

 

[tidaldreams | 654]

2 hours ago, inasuma said:

this is a tangent but i remember vividly when poketubers were really starting to pick up, i watched this newer guy unironically tell his viewers to grade all the commons, uncommons, and holo rares. That way you have the strongest position in the market. You know, for all the cards no one gives a shit about.  Capitalism baby!

I'll admit i sent them a crapton of starters last year when they were charging like $10 card At that price you can't really lose your money i suppose. no wonder the market got flooded and they had to jack up the prices

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

15 hours ago, GPX said:

The problem is that you’re assuming there’s only one reason to grade when I feel there are often multiple reasons to grade at any given time:

1. Preserve condition

2. Display piece

3. Giving the game a more objective point of reference to its condition

4. Following from point 3, it's more convenient and easier to sell in the foreseeable future, as future buyers will have a general idea what to expect.

—————————

Just to further my explanation, I don’t grade all my sealed games. Some sealed games will forever remain ungraded (as long as they’re with me), and the ones I sent off for grading  have multiple reasons in the above. Each game has their own context of why I want to grade them (any combo to the 4 points above); some as part of my personal collection, and some for future resell.

 

And I think you're missing the point that grading in not required for some of those. Are my games not preserved? Are they not displayed? Grading is not required for either.

I will give you 3 and 4. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

16 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Meh, I get it. I'll continue to sling mud though. 

@epiczail you eye roll but in all seriousness, I don't think my opinions on the subject are completely invalid. Do you? I feel comfortable continuing to share my opinions here. Anyone is free to debate me, which they have, and I've enjoyed it. I see all sides of this debate, for what it's worth.

[jonebone | 1,307]

2 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

@epiczail you eye roll but in all seriousness, I don't think my opinions on the subject are completely invalid. Do you? I feel comfortable continuing to share my opinions here. Anyone is free to debate me, which they have, and I've enjoyed it. I see all sides of this debate, for what it's worth.

It's like explaining collecting to a non-collector.  Are you able to do so or do most non-collectors in your social circle just kind of nod there head and say "okay"?  Non-collectors can't really relate to collecting mentality.

Same concept here, non-graded collectors can't really relate to graded collecting.  You either get it or don't.

In it's most basic form, if you have an eye for condition and titles, the cost of grading more than pays for itself.  You either choose to realize the profit or hold it.

Said another way, let's say you get a kick out of finding a $500 game for $100 and keeping it forever.  You could realize that $400 profit or just keep and enjoy it.

Same concept here, if you can pay for grading on the $100 item and turn it into $500, why not?  The money is more than worth it there.  You keep the graded item and never realize it or you sell it and realize the profit.

It's really as simple as that.  That is why I send games to grading companies that are severely backed up.  Whenever they get back in hand it will always have been worth it due to the condition and type of games I'm sending.

[Code Monkey | 2,008]

On 10/1/2021 at 7:55 PM, Blues2013 said:

I paid for a “speed run” on June 10th they received it on June 15th it is oct 1st and all I’m seeing on the wata login is postgrading on the shipped, received, grading, time line scale that they have and when I click view grades no grades are shown it just says some basic pre grading details (ex. Y seam h seam tube seam English version stuff like that) does anyone know if before they ship, my grades will post on the website? And what time frame? The speed run option claimed that it would be done 45 business days and later they changed it to 60 business days. Unless I’m going crazy June 15-October 1st is over the 45/60 business days I paid for and after emailing them I got a very generic response as if they never read it and you can call and call no one picks up the phone. Has anyone dealt with this? How much longer do I gotta wait? Btw sent 4 games all GameCube sealed

They had a shortage of DVD size cases and had to set all DVD sized games aside for a month or two to wait for the cases to arrive. Now they have received them so they're slowly going through the piles of games to get them all in cases.

[Code Monkey | 2,008]

2 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

And I think you're missing the point that grading in not required for some of those. Are my games not preserved? Are they not displayed? Grading is not required for either.

I will give you 3 and 4. 

1. If I die, I'd prefer my spouse to know the exact value of a 9.6 A graded game instead of an ungraded, sealed game of indeterminate value. Nobody keeps games forever, they all get sold eventually.
2. If I'm keeping a display piece on the shelf, I'd prefer it to have the variant listed on the label as well as some notes about the music composer or print run of the specific game. Yes I could use a generic case and make my own label but the cases are $50 plus trying to get a nice label designed, it's around the same price as a $100 Wata graded, sealed case with label done for me.
3. As I previously stated, they offer a prototype grading service where Frank Cifaldi will take the game and do a complete writeup on it for me, noting all differences from the retail release. They then seal it with a PRO label to confirm it is, in fact a prototype and not a retail sample. Some people have been fooled into buying press samples as prototypes, which they are not.
4. If I get an email from someone that they have a VGA 90+ or Wata 9.6 A copy of a game, I don't need to see the 35 photos I would normally ask for, I can just buy it blind. I asked someone for photos of a complete Hot Slots last night and the photos were so limited and shitty that I now need to drive 50 kilometres just to go see it this weekend to make sure I want to buy it. If it were graded, I could just have him mail it to me instead of wasting my day.
5. Sometimes games fall off a shelf, how do generic cases shatter? There are probably 10 different generic acrylic cases and they all shatter with different properties. I know how Wata cases shatter, I've seen it and I'm comfortable with how the game is protected in the case of an accidental fall.
6. If I want a really nice condition game, Wata may tell me my box and cartridge are great but the manual is only a 7.5. I can find someone else online that has an average box but a 9.4 manual so I can buy their game, send both back to Wata and have the pieces matched to get a better condition copy assembled. I may not want to sell it but if I want a really nice copy of a childhood favourite that's how I can do it. I currently have a matte sticker Duck Hunt with a 9.6 manual but shit box graded and have a feeling people may come knocking on my door for it with cash in hand even though I'm not really selling it.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

Shit, I totally forgot to note the music composer on all my games. Thanks for the reminder!

[retro.magnus | 136]

4 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

@epiczail you eye roll but in all seriousness, I don't think my opinions on the subject are completely invalid. Do you? I feel comfortable continuing to share my opinions here. Anyone is free to debate me, which they have, and I've enjoyed it. I see all sides of this debate, for what it's worth.

I eyeball because every sealed post that is posted, you comment on it saying you don't get it. I get that you don't get it. That's fine. I am not telling you to grade your games... +1 to everything Jone posted above

What I am trying to do is provide information & clarity to many members who are new to graded games or are thinking about submitted their games to be graded. Like I've said before, I didn't feel super informed when I submitted over a year ago. I'm trying to help that problem. Not tell people whether they should grade their games or not. That's each of our own choice to make. 

[Khromak | 768]

Cody's original point: if you aren't going to take their opinions seriously about the grade the game gets, why bother grading?

This question was asked because that's one of the most obvious purported selling points of a grading service is to have the game...graded. To have an "objective" number applied to the game, as others have said in this thread, so that any person on planet Earth understands what a 9.6 is.

That logic kind of falls apart when you argue with the grade and undermine the credibility of the grading service, and say that your opinion is more correct than theirs.

Granted, as OP said he was doing this to dip his toes in, and how would you know the quality of their objectivity without trying yourself.

Also granted: not everyone is doing it for the grade, some are doing it because of the protective case, some are doing it because they think it looks better than a raw sealed game, others are looking to profit, I'm sure there are a dozen other reasons.

I don't really have much to add myself, I think these points have all been covered already, but I also think there's a lot of misunderstanding here so I thought I'd summarize. It's not an either-or situation, you can have multiple reasons for grading a game, many of which can have absolutely nothing to do with the opinion of the grader. Also, you don't know if you'll agree with their opinion until it's too late.

[Link | 2,709]

On 10/1/2021 at 1:36 PM, inasuma said:

I get the feeling they will be receptive to critical feedback.

hahahahahahahahaha!!

[retro.magnus | 136]

27 minutes ago, Khromak said:

Cody's original point: if you aren't going to take their opinions seriously about the grade the game gets, why bother grading?

This question was asked because that's one of the most obvious purported selling points of a grading service is to have the game...graded. To have an "objective" number applied to the game, as others have said in this thread, so that any person on planet Earth understands what a 9.6 is.

That logic kind of falls apart when you argue with the grade and undermine the credibility of the grading service, and say that your opinion is more correct than theirs.

Granted, as OP said he was doing this to dip his toes in, and how would you know the quality of their objectivity without trying yourself.

Also granted: not everyone is doing it for the grade, some are doing it because of the protective case, some are doing it because they think it looks better than a raw sealed game, others are looking to profit, I'm sure there are a dozen other reasons.

I don't really have much to add myself, I think these points have all been covered already, but I also think there's a lot of misunderstanding here so I thought I'd summarize. It's not an either-or situation, you can have multiple reasons for grading a game, many of which can have absolutely nothing to do with the opinion of the grader. Also, you don't know if you'll agree with their opinion until it's too late.

This is one of the reasons I shared this post. I would like WATA to be experts & be consistent with their grades.. There will always be some errors, it's just human nature. I have not found any sort of "Grading Guide" for games from different consoles. What is a 9.6 for GBA? GBC? SNES? GC? PS1? etc. Because of the lack of transparency I asked more knowledgable members here if some of my grades were off. Some were, some were not. If 1/20 of the games I submitted is wrong, that's still a % that I am willing to live with. Some may not feel the same. 

This first order is very valuable to me as I contemplate getting more games graded. I'm trying to share as much of this information that I have found out myself, to help other members in a similar place make more informed decisions. 

EDIT: I'm sounding like a broken record replying to y'all lol. Hopefully you get why I sent my games to get graded & understand why I posted my thoughts & feedback. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by epiczail

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

1 hour ago, epiczail said:

EDIT: I'm sounding like a broken record replying to y'all lol. Hopefully you get why I sent my games to get graded & understand why I posted my thoughts & feedback. 

FWIW I enjoyed your post, the photos, and you sharing your experience. I did not intend for you to take any criticism for sending your games in to get graded.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

3 hours ago, Khromak said:

Cody's original point: if you aren't going to take their opinions seriously about the grade the game gets, why bother grading?

From what I have seen, a good percentage of both collectors and "investors" are subconsciously collecting the grades more than the item itself. With sellers willing to price more common 'high grades' more than their more rare 'lower grade' variants. Which is a side topic that helped contribute to my decision to give CAS a shot. With the only complaints I had being the ones they managed to correct (for the most part).

Myself, personally, I have a rare MISB Transformers figure that was graded a CAS 80+. Based on my first experience with AFA, I think they'd have graded it either an 85 or 85+ (or 9.0 if I used their standard grading system). With reason being that my first submission to them came in a 'strong' 80 box, and it was graded an 85. Where as this one was graded an '84.1'. Which tells me that it is 15.9 points (or percent) away from being a gem mint piece.

But I should point out that I always pay extra for any available acrylic upgrades just because I don't want to have my collection be displayed in a climate controlled closet. And I also have a list of things I will have to buy when both my collection is complete and I have a room to display them in. Just because preserving a collectible does not stop once you put them in either a plastic case of any kind. 

[OptOut | 8,883]

6 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

FWIW I enjoyed your post, the photos, and you sharing your experience. I did not intend for you to take any criticism for sending your games in to get graded.

My favourite bit was when the dogs.