Are the Famicom and NES the same thing?

[fcgamer | 4,753]

9 hours ago, Sumez said:

But they do have the same hardware and the same software library.

They have vastly different software libraries, if you looked at the numbers I posted earlier. There's no way that can be argued.

[Tanooki | 4,952]

With the PAL games I had, they ran the right speed, gameplay wise.  Depending sometimes a game would have a little clipped off at the top and or bottom of the screen, sometimes the audio would be off pitch, but the core experience wasn't ruined.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

9 hours ago, Sumez said:

Kid Dracula absolutely belongs on a list of NES hidden gems, and Final Fantasy 6 is one of the absolute best games released on the SNES, doesn't matter that it wasn't released here. If you want to make a list of the "top 10 American NES games", just call it that.

I mostly agree with your side of the discussion in this thread, but come on: Kid Dracula has absolutely no place in a NES hidden gems video because it was never released on the NES.  (And as for FFVI, do you mean  FFV, because we got FFVI in the US, just with a different roman numeral behind it).

Simple solution: call the video "NES/Famicom Hidden Gems" and all your bases are covered.  The only problem, of course, is that many 'Muricans are super xenophobic and do NOT want foreign released games showing up in their hidden gem videos...

[Link | 2,727]

“Are these two things that look different the same thing?”

No, they are not.

Is a Sony Walkman 1 the same thing as a Sony microcassette M-88? They both play ¼” tape. The media containers are different sizes and don’t fit into the other machine. One records, one doesn’t. 

Similar? Sure. Same platform? I guess. Works with the same media? Somewhat. Same (identical) capability? Not really. Same thing? No.

 

[Sumez | 2,994]

6 hours ago, Tanooki said:

With the PAL games I had, they ran the right speed, gameplay wise

Yes, that is very often the case. Those games won't run at "the right speed" on a PAL console, despite being released in PAL territories  

 

3 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

And as for FFVI, do you mean  FFV, because we got FFVI in the US, just with a different roman numeral behind it

I mean Final Fantasy 6, the one released in the US with the "Final Fantasy III" title.  

2 hours ago, Link said:

Similar? Sure. Same platform? I guess. Works with the same media? Somewhat. Same (identical) capability? Not really. Same thing? No.

I'm fine with this, honestly. I guess "same thing" is too vague. Yeah, a Famicom and an NES are two different things, in the same way a top loader NES and front loader NES are two different things. But it's still the same platform, which is honestly the only thing I really care about.

Obviously there's a distinction that is relevant ever so often, and it's somewhat simpler to say "Famicom library" and "US NES library", and people will know exactly what you mean. But then "NES library" can be ambiguous, because do you mean both the US and the EU/AUS library, and in this case why does one deserve to be included, and not the other? And what about Asian NES'es ? If you say "Saturn library" no one would ever assume you are ignoring the Japanese library, which is pretty much where everything happens on that platform.

[WhyNotZoidberg | 586]

16 hours ago, Sumez said:

 

You can use the same carts between the consoles because there aren't any hardware differences.
And yes, in some rare cases they aren't just "basically" the same cart, but the exact same carts. I literally just posted a picture of the innards of a US Wrecking Crew in that other thread.

 

Ah yes, a specific cart whose innards are nothing like the other standard carts.

[cj_robot | 546]

2 hours ago, Sumez said:

If you say "Saturn library" no one would ever assume you are ignoring the Japanese library, which is pretty much where everything happens on that platform.

Sure, like the same could be said about the Mega Drive, that nobody would assume you're leaving out the western library.

But I think that the Famicom/NES situation is a somewhat unique case in that there are many more differences than simply: "We translated some of the games from Japanese to English, and vice versa." In addition, it existed in a time before importing games was really practical, or even a thing at all. Each library mostly stayed isolated in its own region, and that is still tied to most people's experience with the console.

As time went on, I think those regional lines got much more blurred, and the distinctions are pretty minor. So I feel like it's a fallacy to say something like: The Switch Japan, North America, and PAL libraries should be counted as the same, therefore the NES should be treated that way as well.

[noiseredux | 232]

a few thoughts, as a simple analog, yeah - I've always considered the Famicom to be "Japan's version of the NES" and the NES to be "American's version of the Famicom." I'm sort of in the camp that thinks of it like Mega Drive vs Genesis.

I consider the FDS to be its own thing - much like the Sega CD or 32x or N64DD.

We absolutely did get Final Fantasy VI in the US, it just had a different title. Nobody would say we didn't get Seiken Densetsu in the US just because it was called Final Fantasy Adventure. Nobody would say we didn't get Mother 2 because it was called Earthbound. And (an endless list of other examples).

 

[Sumez | 2,994]

Who ever claimed you didn't get it in the US?

[Tanooki | 4,952]

I've seen that dumb argument.  Americans so caught up in the US naming that Square broke going to 7/PSX.  They won't let it go, cling to it, won't even throw a verbal asterisk saying FF3 SNES to be clear vs the real FF3 Famicom.  Just a dumb argument you can laugh off to general stupidity by this year, but I had that argument crop up in the 90s, died off basically in the 00s as by then people had it figured out with the PS1 CDs and then GBA releases.

[Sumez | 2,994]

It wasn't about the name. I'm just saying I would be crazy to exclude FF6/3 from a best SNES games list just because it didn't come out here. Same logic goes for ignoring NES/FC titles only released in Japan.

[noiseredux | 232]

47 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Who ever claimed you didn't get it in the US?

I guess I misunderstood your point. I thought you were saying FF6 wouldn't be on a best SNES list because it wasn't released on SNES (because it was re-titled FF3).

[fcgamer | 4,753]

11 minutes ago, noiseredux said:

I guess I misunderstood your point. I thought you were saying FF6 wouldn't be on a best SNES list because it wasn't released on SNES (because it was re-titled FF3).

I'm really confused by his point too, I guess he means it wasn't released in Denmark?

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

19 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I'm really confused by his point too, I guess he means it wasn't released in Denmark?

Yeah, it would be a lot easier if he would put his location in his profile, but when you don't see a location under the avatar, the automatic assumption is that he is American, so when he says "here" people are assuming he means in the US...

[cj_robot | 546]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

I've seen that dumb argument.  Americans so caught up in the US naming that Square broke going to 7/PSX.  They won't let it go, cling to it, won't even throw a verbal asterisk saying FF3 SNES to be clear vs the real FF3 Famicom.  Just a dumb argument you can laugh off to general stupidity by this year, but I had that argument crop up in the 90s, died off basically in the 00s as by then people had it figured out with the PS1 CDs and then GBA releases.

This  is probably another topic that deserves it's own thread

I will say that the only thing that drives me crazy is when I'm talking about Final Fantasy III and I'm making it absolutely clear that I'm talking about the Super NES game, and then people still feel the obligation to tell me, "ACTUALLY you're talking about FFVI." Like, no shit, but calling it FFIII is also not wrong, Mr. Know-it-all.

[Sumez | 2,994]

2 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

the automatic assumption is that he is American

[Tanooki | 4,952]

Agreed CJ, wanted to eyeroll that one, but your post is right, the stupidity is just as right.

[fcgamer | 4,753]

12 hours ago, cj_robot said:

This  is probably another topic that deserves it's own thread

I will say that the only thing that drives me crazy is when I'm talking about Final Fantasy III and I'm making it absolutely clear that I'm talking about the Super NES game, and then people still feel the obligation to tell me, "ACTUALLY you're talking about FFVI." Like, no shit, but calling it FFIII is also not wrong, Mr. Know-it-all.

Well there's the same problem with Super Mario Bros. 2, for clarity should we say:

1. Super Mario Bros. USA

2. Super Mario Bros. 2 Japanese version

3. Super Mario Bros. 2 American version

4. Super Mario Bros. 2 western version

5. The real Super Mario Bros. 2

Etc etc

 

[Sumez | 2,994]

Yeah, I'm all for unambiguity. Sure, if the FF3 name has a personal meaning to you, it makes sense to stick to it, but if you aren't even trying to clarify that you are actually talking about FF6. (I'd probably say "FF3 (6)" or "SNES FF3" or something), it kinda comes across like you're intentionally trying to be ambiguous.

For SMB2 I'd usually say SMB2 USA or SMB2j. "The real SMB2" sounds too dependent on personal bias to have any value.  

One of the biggest issues with this naming is the King's Field series. KF3 and KF4 are completely unambiguous because only one game had each of those titles, but KF1 and KF2 are annoying, because you're very likely talking to people who aren't even aware of the numbering being different between Japan and EU/NA. KF2 is a very special game to me, but I don't want people to think I'm talking about the one that had the number 2 in the west, which is a much worse game. And if I say KF2jp you'd think I was talking about the Japanese version of either game, which isn't true either.

[cj_robot | 546]

There's plenty of other examples of this:

US Motor Toon Grand Prix = JP Motor Toon Grand Prix 2

US TMNT III = JP TMNT II

Castlevania III & IV aren't even numbered in Japan

JP Bust-A-Move = US Bust-A-Groove because US Bust-A-Move = JP Puzzle Bobble

US Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest = JP Final Fantasy USA while EU Mystic Quest = JP Seiken Densetsu = US Final Fantasy Adventure

There's countless more examples (there exists a thread on this topic ready), not to mention the hundreds of games with completely different names across regions. But the only ones I ever see people get riled up over are Final Fantasy II - VI.

[Hammerfestus | 3,882]

Yes.

[WhyNotZoidberg | 586]

6 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Well there's the same problem with Super Mario Bros. 2, for clarity should we say:

1. Super Mario Bros. USA

2. Super Mario Bros. 2 Japanese version

3. Super Mario Bros. 2 American version

4. Super Mario Bros. 2 western version

5. The real Super Mario Bros. 2

Etc etc

 

I call it by its real name. Super Mario Bros. 2 Mario Madness 

FFIII is a different beast because the original game is now available to western audiences in various forms and the further re-releases of the SNES game are actually called FFVI. But the SNES game is an absolute classic and it was named FFIII and if you still own a copy today, the box art and label didn't magically change from III to VI. So I will always assume that people mean the SNES version of FFIII when they are talking about it. 

Whereas Super Mario Bros 2 is still called that in official releases. In North America at least.

Edited July 2, 2021 by WhyNotZoidberg
forgot words

[Tulpa | 3,534]

Don't get started on the Crazy Castle series.

[Tanooki | 4,952]

There's that many SMB2s?  I'm confused.

I call the FDS game SMB2j, the FC game SMUSA, and SMB2 is just the NES one as that's how it was in the states evolving over the years as knowledge appeared of such things.  I don't even really like to call it 'Lost Levels' despite Nintendo using that to break up the obvious.

[T-Pac | 7,587]

On 7/1/2021 at 1:26 PM, cj_robot said:

This  is probably another topic that deserves it's own thread

I will say that the only thing that drives me crazy is when I'm talking about Final Fantasy III and I'm making it absolutely clear that I'm talking about the Super NES game, and then people still feel the obligation to tell me, "ACTUALLY you're talking about FFVI." Like, no shit, but calling it FFIII is also not wrong, Mr. Know-it-all.

To be honest, this has always bothered me way more than it should.

In a discussion about SNES games, when someone says they played Final Fantasy VI I assume they either played the Super Famicom game in Japanese, or they've got a compulsive need to flex their "incredibly vast" knowledge of the Final Fantasy franchise. The SNES game is called Final Fantasy III - there's no such thing as Final Fantasy IV on the Super Nintendo.

I wish I didn't care. I reeeally wish I didn't care. But I do and it makes my blood boil.

-CasualCart