American Politics / Current Events Thread

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

You guys sure thats not Marjorie Taylor greene?

[avatar! | 1,811]

This US city was working to cut its police budget in half – then violent crime started to rise

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/mar/19/defund-the-police-gun-violence-surge-oakland

Oakland is experiencing a 314% increase in homicides compared with the same time last year, and a 113% increase in firearms assaults. Henderson protested alongside thousands of others last summer but said she didn’t want to see total abolition of police – at least until there are “stress-tested” alternatives in place.

Damn! 314% increase in homicides! ...Ultimately time will tell if "defunding" works, but studies show that having police absolutely acts as a deterrent to crime - for example:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18193661/hire-police-officers-crime-criminal-justice-reform-booker-harris

I tend to agree with those that say hiring more police is good, as long as they are trained properly and held accountable for their actions. I think the notion of abolishing police is a horrible idea that will only result in huge increases in homicides and other crimes. Thoughts?

 

[Californication | 1,477]

44 minutes ago, avatar! said:

This US city was working to cut its police budget in half – then violent crime started to rise

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/mar/19/defund-the-police-gun-violence-surge-oakland

Oakland is experiencing a 314% increase in homicides compared with the same time last year, and a 113% increase in firearms assaults. Henderson protested alongside thousands of others last summer but said she didn’t want to see total abolition of police – at least until there are “stress-tested” alternatives in place.

Damn! 314% increase in homicides! ...Ultimately time will tell if "defunding" works, but studies show that having police absolutely acts as a deterrent to crime - for example:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18193661/hire-police-officers-crime-criminal-justice-reform-booker-harris

I tend to agree with those that say hiring more police is good, as long as they are trained properly and held accountable for their actions. I think the notion of abolishing police is a horrible idea that will only result in huge increases in homicides and other crimes. Thoughts?

 

Defunding the police has nothing to do with taking money away from homicide investigations. 

[avatar! | 1,811]

4 minutes ago, Californication said:

Defunding the police has nothing to do with taking money away from homicide investigations. 

Read the article. This is not about homicide investigations, this is about preventing homicides due to police presence.

[Californication | 1,477]

44 minutes ago, avatar! said:

Read the article. This is not about homicide investigations, this is about preventing homicides due to police presence.

Oh even better. More police doesn't equal less crime. Wonder why the asians in Atlant are specifically saying they don't want more police there despite targeted murders?9

Maybe the solution should probably figure why a heavily minority city is has so much tension. I mean minoritys are disproportionately being killed by corona virus, laid off from jobs, following explicit years of political racism they should be calm and quiet.

"At its purest, defund the police....organizers hope will lead to the complete abolition of police departments, prisons, and other carceral systems."

"Organaizers in cities like Oakland insist that these difficult conversations do not represent an impasse that leaves the most vulnerable with difficult options: either keep the police in neighborhoods at current or higher levels or defund and be subject to shootings and higher crime"

- What a shity sentence that encapsulates the whole article. The organizers didn't say anything, so the writer is making a point as if these two stupid options are both real and the only options available.

The article correlates protestimg police to increasing murder rate. Unless the police are angry and killing people I don't understand the correlation.

The Guardian and Vox are liberal garbage.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Californication

[Californication | 1,477]

24 minutes ago, ChickenTendas said:

lmao he even talks like Trump. Too fucking perfect

"He added that his social-media platform Vocl would launch in between 10 and 14 days, and would be 'the biggest platform in history, safest platform ever.'"

$100 says he has been getting high af somewhere.

[avatar! | 1,811]

https://www.businessinsider.com/timothy-hale-cusanelli-hitler-loving-insurrectionist-secret-level-security-clearance-2021-3

One Navy Petty Officer said that it was "well-known" that Hale-Cusanelli did not like minorities or Jews. A Navy Seaman recalled an incident where he said that if he were a Nazi, he would "kill all the Jews and eat them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner."

Instead of getting fired, this piece of shite got honors and a top-security clearance... pathetic! Well, now hopefully he'll spend some time in jail, ideally for the rest of his life (I know it won't happen, but I said "ideally").

Hale-Cusanelli's story is just one of many examples of white supremacy within the ranks of the US military going undetected. This, as the US witnessed on January 6, can have dire consequences.

 

 

[Silent Hill | 276]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:05 PM, Californication said:

On 3/19/2021 at 9:35 PM, avatar! said:

Read the article. This is not about homicide investigations, this is about preventing homicides due to police presence.

Oh even better. More police doesn't equal less crime. Wonder why the asians in Atlant are specifically saying they don't want more police there despite targeted murders?9

Maybe the solution should probably figure why a heavily minority city is has so much tension. I mean minoritys are disproportionately being killed by corona virus, laid off from jobs, following explicit years of political racism they should be calm and quiet.

"At its purest, defund the police....organizers hope will lead to the complete abolition of police departments, prisons, and other carceral systems."

"Organaizers in cities like Oakland insist that these difficult conversations do not represent an impasse that leaves the most vulnerable with difficult options: either keep the police in neighborhoods at current or higher levels or defund and be subject to shootings and higher crime"

- What a shity sentence that encapsulates the whole article. The organizers didn't say anything, so the writer is making a point as if these two stupid options are both real and the only options available.

The article correlates protestimg police to increasing murder rate. Unless the police are angry and killing people I don't understand the correlation.

The Guardian and Vox are liberal garbage.

I'm not saying that by default, the addition of police = less crime, but I wonder what's causing the violent crime spikes in some cities? Why is Minneapolis pushing money back into their system to hire more officers? Not sure what other approach there is to take when crime spikes like that.

You ask a good question around why are these cities experiencing spikes if it's unrelated to police presence. 

PS: Where did you see that the Asian population in Atlanta is dismissing the idea of adding more police? Curious to see why that question was being posed and what their reasoning for declining additional police resources was. 

[Californication | 1,477]

6 hours ago, Silent Hill said:

I'm not saying that by default, the addition of police = less crime, but I wonder what's causing the violent crime spikes in some cities? Why is Minneapolis pushing money back into their system to hire more officers? Not sure what other approach there is to take when crime spikes like that.

You ask a good question around why are these cities experiencing spikes if it's unrelated to police presence. 

PS: Where did you see that the Asian population in Atlanta is dismissing the idea of adding more police? Curious to see why that question was being posed and what their reasoning for declining additional police resources was. 

I will look for the source.

What is even more interesting, is about two years ago Oakland was all over the news because they had decreased some measurement of their crime by 30%. At the time the drop in crime was being attributed to a new program that (I believe) was paying people with criminal background to try and get ahead somehow. 

Edit: It was from a Dr. Connie Wun referencing community organizers. She did an interview regarding Atlanta and historical hate crimes against asians the day before last on Democracy Now.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Californication

[Silent Hill | 276]

18 hours ago, Californication said:

I will look for the source.

What is even more interesting, is about two years ago Oakland was all over the news because they had decreased some measurement of their crime by 30%. At the time the drop in crime was being attributed to a new program that (I believe) was paying people with criminal background to try and get ahead somehow. 

Edit: It was from a Dr. Connie Wun referencing community organizers. She did an interview regarding Atlanta and historical hate crimes against asians the day before last on Democracy Now.

Looks like Operation Ceasefire was attributed to the drop in violent crimes, more specifically gang related shootings. Seems to include other local resources in conjunction with police to curb the violence. 

More police definitely isn't a guaranteed recipe for less crime, but there was a spike when resources were low, at least in Oakland's case. It appears that tactically deployed police/resources is a better approach. Not sure if Operation Ceasefire is still in place or if it isn't, and that's causing some of the recent increase in crime. 

 

 

[Silent Hill | 276]

18 hours ago, Californication said:

Edit: It was from a Dr. Connie Wun referencing community organizers. She did an interview regarding Atlanta and historical hate crimes against asians the day before last on Democracy Now.

Found that interview and I think it's a bit of a stretch to tie this recent incident to some overarching historic racism against Asians.

It sounds like the reasoning behind the shootings was sexual addiction mixed with mental illness that drove him to that point, not solely a hatred of the Asian race, but that was quickly dismissed and was referred back to white supremacy and phrases like "China Virus" which I think is a bit disingenuous. 

"They said the gentleman said that he was — it was not because of a racial issue. He said it was because of a sex addiction, which is — we all know that’s not true, because of the rhetoric that has been placed all throughout this country, with people thinking that the “China virus” and things like that"

Not sure off hand what the statistics are around the recent crimes against Asians. Were they all done by white people in the name of supremacy/racism? Were they all done because the virus in fact came from China? Just seems like that's what they want the crime to be tied to, even if the culprit said it wasn't. Who's to say what their true motive was?

Regarding calls for increased hate-crime legislation and more police, she does say "And they’ve called in — they’ve called for more policing and surveillance, when community organizers have asked for the complete opposite." but she doesn't seem to expand on this to explain exactly what the "community organizers" are asking for. I also think it's odd when she claims that recent crimes are underreported because "our communities don't trust the criminal justice system". Wonder why their community would feel that way? I'm not aware of a negative disparity for the Asian population as it relates to police or the justice system. Overall it reads like a piggyback off of BLM when I don't think Asians face the same challenges that BLM stands against. 

[Californication | 1,477]

I'm not surprised you don't think this was a crime against asians or haven't taken the time to look at the statistics on the inrease hate crimes against. And I am definetly not surprised you can't correlate trump and the republican partys constant rhetoric against China and other asians as having any influence on this objectively measured increase of violence against asians across the country.

I'm very confused about your reference to BLM. You talk negatively about them all the time, why are you using them as a basis for comparison now? And why does the racism that asians face need to me measured against the racism black people face?

Edited March 23, 2021 by Californication

[Californication | 1,477]

Honestly, the republicans are on the wrong side of every issue that comes up regarding race month after month, year after year. And the reason is simple: the republican party has nothing to offer this country. And since they cannot offer anything real, they traffic in hate against minorities, women, and sell a narrative that makes a segment of the republican party feel like someone is on their side. 

This is like politics 101. You can come up with whatever reasons you want to make the minority not the victim, and even though the story may change people like you @Silent Hill always end up on the same side.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Another young man, poisoned by Fox News and religion. Another casualty of the modern right. 
 

I would bet money his dad would stop for rub and tugs at the local massage parlor and then come home and beat his son for masturbating, while telling him he is going to hell for having impure thoughts. 

 

I am saying it is most likely unconscious racism,  as the “sex addiction” is a bullshit cop out. This Kid saw these poor asian women as some exotic pleasure toy that needed to be eliminated to keep himself pure, nothing more than a temptation.  Not a person, an object.

Until no republicans get elected again, this will continue to be a disease that infests America.

 

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

15 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Until no republicans get elected again, this will continue to be a disease that infests America.

 

The GOP has more of a symbiotic relationship with the actual disease. Indoctrination of Fear and Irrationality, that's being spoon fed to us through the media (both sides) and amplified through means of social media (from Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, to even the tiniest corners of the internet like this one)

I'm not affiliated with any political party, I lean right I guess...I guess I'm more of a "Libertarian" but there are some things I really don't agree with like being told what I should believe in if I go by that title? I dunno....I just want to go to the gun range after going to church with my gay friends who love marijuana...

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

1 hour ago, ThePhleo said:

 

The GOP has more of a symbiotic relationship with the actual disease. Indoctrination of Fear and Irrationality, that's being spoon fed to us through the media (both sides) and amplified through means of social media (from Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, to even the tiniest corners of the internet like this one)

I'm not affiliated with any political party, I lean right I guess...I guess I'm more of a "Libertarian" but there are some things I really don't agree with like being told what I should believe in if I go by that title? I dunno....I just want to go to the gun range after going to church with my gay friends who love marijuana...

I agree with everything, except for the “both sides” argument.
 

There is no liberal equivalent to the right wing misinformation machine. No equivalent to 3 hour primetime fake news like Hannity, Carlson, Ingrham- where it is constant negative fear mongering. 

[Silent Hill | 276]

4 hours ago, Californication said:

I'm not surprised you don't think this was a crime against asians or haven't taken the time to look at the statistics on the inrease hate crimes against. And I am definetly not surprised you can't correlate trump and the republican partys constant rhetoric against China and other asians as having any influence on this objectively measured increase of violence against asians across the country.

I'm very confused about your reference to BLM. You talk negatively about them all the time, why are you using them as a basis for comparison now? And why does the racism that asians face need to me measured against the racism black people face?

I didn't say it wasn't a crime against Asians, just that racism wasn't said to be the driving factor. I mean, you already went on a rampage why wouldn't you just be honest about why you did it? Clearly the guy has some serious issues and I just don't deny the possibility of sexual addiction to Asian women coupled with mental illness as the driving factor and tying it back to racism solely because of the victim's race, which is what the article (and general media coverage) seemed to do.

And for this situation specifically, I don't see the correlation between "China Virus" and the reason behind the killings. Plus, what are the statistics behind the aggressors in these recent Asian hate crimes? Are they all Trump supporters? Are they all White supremacists? Not sure, but I could see that some percentage of the recent incidents have been related to COVID being tied to China, but not sure how big or small that percentage is. The rest of the incidents are similarly done by lunatics, but with different motives/reasoning.

To the BLM statement, I didn't compare the two, but that article on Democracy Now seemed to. A few statements in there including BLM or the Black community like there's some parallel between the two, which I found odd. Like they were trying to frame the Asian community in a similar fashion. 

[Silent Hill | 276]

2 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

Another young man, poisoned by Fox News and religion. Another casualty of the modern right. 
 

I would bet money his dad would stop for rub and tugs at the local massage parlor and then come home and beat his son for masturbating, while telling him he is going to hell for having impure thoughts. 

 

I am saying it is most likely unconscious racism,  as the “sex addiction” is a bullshit cop out. This Kid saw these poor asian women as some exotic pleasure toy that needed to be eliminated to keep himself pure, nothing more than a temptation.  Not a person, an object.

Until no republicans get elected again, this will continue to be a disease that infests America.

 

lol quite the storyteller

[Silent Hill | 276]

10 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I agree with everything, except for the “both sides” argument.
 

There is no liberal equivalent to the right wing misinformation machine. No equivalent to 3 hour primetime fake news like Hannity, Carlson, Ingrham- where it is constant negative fear mongering. 

I don't know about "primetime fake news" but there are quite a few examples of left-wing journalism/media stirring the pot with false information, primarily throughout Trump's run. I mean, people still use "inject bleach" and "very fine people" among other quotes way out of context and inaccurately. And how many times do we still have to hear about Trump never denouncing White supremacy?

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

5 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I agree with everything, except for the “both sides” argument.
 

There is no liberal equivalent to the right wing misinformation machine. No equivalent to 3 hour primetime fake news like Hannity, Carlson, Ingrham- where it is constant negative fear mongering. 

 

I'll give you that the right is a lot more fear driven. (Xenophobia, Homophobia, Islamaphobia, Second-Amendmendma-Phobia...you get the idea)

But there's plenty of irrationality on the left side of the aisle as well.

For example, the current topic at hand will likely lead to discussions of gun control. On the extreme spectrum of things, people want guns to be taken away completely.

It's highly irrational first of all to make someone a felon with the stroke of a pen by owning something that was perfectly legal prior to. . . it's even more irrational to have the expectation that the transition will be done peacefully . . . and then even moreso irrational to expect that the transition to actually be effective....in example with guns, I wonder how many people will "lose" their guns in a boat accident, or house fire, or burglary. (also, look at marijuana...the prohibition doesn't work it only makes people go underground)

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

39 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

I don't know about "primetime fake news" but there are quite a few examples of left-wing journalism/media stirring the pot with false information, primarily throughout Trump's run. I mean, people still use "inject bleach" and "very fine people" among other quotes way out of context and inaccurately. And how many times do we still have to hear about Trump never denouncing White supremacy?

Sure I’ll give you those three specific examples. Even though Trump did plenty of racist terrible things that we have 100% proof of, not sure why people pick on those. 
 

But the right wing missinformation loop is a gigantic aggressive machine, Designed to keep “conservatives” dumb and pliable. How many hours did Fox News dedicate to the whole Dr. Seuss thing? Screaming about liberal woke culture and how Biden wants to cancel something or other. 

It’s the entire reason Why Southern states rank the lowest in schooling and wealth. 
 

Keep your constituents dumb, poor and unhealthy, and they will take whatever you give them. Get them to hate liberals for whatever reason and you can convince them to vote against their own best interests. 
 

Oh and don’t forget take away their voting rights!
 

 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

47 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

 

I'll give you that the right is a lot more fear driven. (Xenophobia, Homophobia, Islamaphobia, Second-Amendmendma-Phobia...you get the idea)

But there's plenty of irrationality on the left side of the aisle as well.

For example, the current topic at hand will likely lead to discussions of gun control. On the extreme spectrum of things, people want guns to be taken away completely.

It's highly irrational first of all to make someone a felon with the stroke of a pen by owning something that was perfectly legal prior to. . . it's even more irrational to have the expectation that the transition will be done peacefully . . . and then even moreso irrational to expect that the transition to actually be effective....in example with guns, I wonder how many people will "lose" their guns in a boat accident, or house fire, or burglary. (also, look at marijuana...the prohibition doesn't work it only makes people go underground)

That sounds an awful lot like the slippery slope fallacy. As someone with the safe full of guns, in California, I am receptive to common sense gun control.
 

Someone who has emotional issues should not be able to buy a gun and walk out at the store with it the same day, period. 

[Kguillemette | 1,544]

3 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

I dunno....I just want to go to the gun range after going to church with my gay friends who love marijuana...

Sorry to pull you out of context, but if there was a single sentence to summarize my feelings on politics, it's this one.

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

45 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

That sounds an awful lot like the slippery slope fallacy. As someone with the safe full of guns, in California, I am receptive to common sense gun control.
 

Someone who has emotional issues should not be able to buy a gun and walk out at the store with it the same day, period. 

True! No one should be able to buy a gun and walk out with it same day ... with the caveat being that if they’re already gun owners then I think that rule shouldn’t really apply.

a lot of 2A folks often quote the “shall not be infringed” portion while also ignoring “well regulated”

NJ has some seriously strong regulations and while they’re a hassle, I think they’re a good mode. But something as strict in NJ will never pass the smell test in a place like Kentucky, or Alabama.

Its a complex issue that definitely requires attention, but even then we have to remember that it’s not the weapon that kills people, it’s the person behind it...a Prius can kill more people in a crowd than a pistol can in 5 seconds... but a gun is a tool that’s only purpose is to kill.

 

12 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

Sorry to pull you out of context, but if there was a single sentence to summarize my feelings on politics, it's this one.

I feel more people than not are that way as well, but it’s a silent Super majority.

Also...to be totally honest, I’m not sure if I have any gay friends, at least any openly ones. Just using political hot topics for illustration.

Edited March 23, 2021 by ThePhleo

[Californication | 1,477]

@silenthill,

So you believe the killer was a sex addict and had mental illness and and at the same time you believe what he says is objectively accurate? 

I mean I guess this gives me a better understanding of why you follow Donald Trump.

There were multiple domestic terrorist attacks where the perpetrator said they weren't republican/conservative and that ended up being false. 

And just fyi regarding your other post about the media misrepresenting Trump. I do agree with that statement at times. I disagree with the example of injecting bleach. That was one of the most eye opening, on camera from beginning to end, dumbest thing Trump ever said. 

He literally didn't understand the difference between cleaning surfaces and what could be used in the human body. He was 100% serious. If you can't tell he was serious, bless your heart.