Tabonga | 2,390 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Estil said: I kid you not, when I first heard the title "Fifty Shades of Grey" I thought it would be some sort of Civil War book/novel. Perhaps about a platoon of 50 Confederate soldiers and their individual experiences? At least then the title would've made sense... Lol - if I had seen just the title first I might have thought it was a Civil War book of some sort - about ghosts of Confederate soldiers, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,282 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Just now, Tabonga said: Lol - if I had seen just the title first I might have thought it was a Civil War book of some sort - about ghosts of Confederate soldiers, Well we all know who to call, eh text...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Hill | 276 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 15 hours ago, Tulpa said: Whatever the number, it's still being higher. You may think it's acceptable, I do not. @MrWunderful already addressed your other explanation. None of the recent killings were gang related. In fact, almost none of the high profile killings were gang related. I’m curious to think if this year, the number of black people killed, per capita, matches the number of whites killed, will people still protest, and if they do, will it still be race driven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, Tabonga said: As I indicated it was a nuance - in this case to show that black isn't always black nor white always white (as it were) - there are sometimes shades of grey involved in things - in any event it was obviously not terribly prevalent and aside from a few scattered incidents in the colonies there was only one state where it did occur after that (as far as I know). But I am sure you knew that - others might find it of interest (which is often who we are really posting for isn't it?) It was blatantly white in America even if someone in Africa benefitted aswell by selling them off. I don't think there's shades of grey involved in this case because in the American context it's pretty obvious it was almost exclusively pro-white and anti-black and the white American buyers had the full share of responsibility for their part regardless of the blacks enabling it. To me this is a very blatant form of systemic racism in the real sense. I wouldn't denounce the American aspect of it but at the same time would also add that slavery isn't an exclusively white concept. The so-called liberals won't bring up the Arab guilt in any context neither to the demographic in USA nor to those countries themselves because it detracts from the victim-perpetrator narrative where all subgroups are in solidarity as oppressed and the white (men) the singular cause of dismay. The blacks themselves who formed a nationalism stream where they "broke free" from the historical ills of the white christianity just to adopt the islam as if nothing wrong had been going on there and it was an ideology that offered equality. And also the issue is that considering that every American slave and slaveowner are dead there's no one that can atone for what happened without at the same time being made held responsible for what someone else did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Hill | 276 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 16 hours ago, Tulpa said: I am not speaking in hypotheticals. Black people are getting killed. Far more than any other race. The whole Black Lives Matter movement is that their lives are being less valued. Saying "All lives matter" ignores the point. Saying that a white person wouldn't get the attention ignores that a white person would very rarely get killed. Whereas a black person is in genuine danger with a huge number of cop encounters. Can police brutality happen to anyone? Sure. But it happens to blacks FAR, FAR more often. So before jumping on the "Well, if he were white, he wouldn't get the attention." True, if he were white, he'd be alive. Almost certain. Yes, police brutality is bad, and right now the black community is getting hammered by it. It's the pressing issue. It's why it's getting attention. It's not saying "well, whites getting brutalized is just as bad." We take care of the issue of cops killing blacks, and it'll probably address cops killing other races as well. Can’t really technically say that White people very rarely are killed by police since the number of killings exceeds those of other races. By that logic, black people are “rarely” killed which counters your point. (I know the per capita point, but that’s not the full picture either) You just don’t see it publicized because it doesn’t “sell” Also, no excuse for the lack of media coverage by comparison for white people being killed by police. Your argument of “well they’d be alive” doesn’t apply, because they’re not alive in those cases. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,390 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, cartman said: .... because in the American context it's pretty obvious it was almost exclusively pro-white and anti-black,,,,,,, Which pretty much describes a nuance doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Silent Hill said: Can’t really technically say that White people very rarely are killed by police since the number of killings exceeds those of other races. By that logic, black people are “rarely” killed which counters your point. (I know the per capita point, but that’s not the full picture either) You just don’t see it publicized because it doesn’t “sell” Also, no excuse for the lack of media coverage by comparison for white people being killed by police. Your argument of “well they’d be alive” doesn’t apply, because they’re not alive in those cases. Someone can also have been reckless or a douche in general and the fact that the victim was black doesn't exclude that he could've been white by the same perpetrator. By going by the ones that have been killed in your example it will automatically be based on different individuals having done the killing (wich is a valid numerical point) but the behavioral one is also very relevant and far from certain. We can't know that a white man wouldn't have been manhandled by the same Chauvin on the basis that Chauvin is reckless or just a plain old douchebag rather than racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tabonga said: Which pretty much describes a nuance doesn't it? Yeah but a statistically so insignificant one to the point that it doesn't work as an argument i would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,390 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, cartman said: Yeah but a statistically so insignificant one to the point that it doesn't work as an argument i would say. It does to the extent to that it shows that things are rarely totally cut and dried - which is really why I cited it. (For a rather interesting read on a pretty unique case in the history of American slavery you might want to check out this book) : Another oddity in American history is that slavery was (very) peripherally involved in the story of the lost colony of Roanoke. Edited June 7, 2020 by Tabonga 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Tabonga said: It does to the extent to that it shows that things are rarely totally cut and dried - which is really why I cited it. (For a rather interesting read on a pretty unique case in American slavery this is an interesting read: Another oddity in American history is that slavery was (very) peripherally involved in the story of the lost colony of Roanoke. Yes ofcourse there's exceptions to everything. But i'd rather make the "not cut and dry" argument on the basis that different groups have been the victims/perpetrators historically rather than find small exceptions within those groups themselves. I wouldn't denounce that girls suffering as a person but i'd never consider it a foundation to call it systemic either just as i don't in regards to the case of George Floyd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,390 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, cartman said: Yes ofcourse there's exceptions to everything. But i'd rather make the "not cut and dry" argument on the basis that different groups have been the victims/perpetrators historically rather than find small exceptions within those groups themselves. I wouldn't denounce that girls suffering as a person but i'd never consider it a foundation to call it systemic either just as i don't in regards to the case of George Floyd. You are trying to read (as it were) way too much into things - I only mentioned that book since it is an interesting read - fairly revealing of the law and slavery at that time, Not sure what exception you are arguing about the book but having read it (and it sounds like you haven't) it I am pretty sure the exception that you are projecting doesn't exist. Edited June 8, 2020 by Tabonga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,490 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, Tabonga said: You are trying to read (as it were) way too much into things - I only mentioned that book since it is an interesting read - fairly revealing of the law and slavery at that time, Not sure what exception you are arguing about the book but having read it (and it sounds like you haven't) it I am pretty sure the exception that you are projecting doesn't exist. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tabonga said: You are trying to read (as it were) way too much into things - I only mentioned that book since it is an interesting read - fairly revealing of the law and slavery at that time, Not sure what exception you are arguing about the book but having read it (and it sounds like you haven't) it I am pretty sure the exception that you are projecting doesn't exist. No i have not read it and am not saying that it's uninteresting either i was just talking about the systemic racism of American slavery. But your original point was that nothing is ever truly one thing or the other and yes it does prove that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,390 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, cartman said: No i have not read it and am not saying that it's uninteresting either i was just talking about the systemic racism of American slavery. But your original point was that nothing is ever truly one thing or the other and yes it does prove that part. Actually the book doesn't prove much of anything except that it was (likely) possible for a slave to game the system. The book really has nothing to do with the topic (other than it is about slavery) - I was just pointing out an interesting read if someone (not necessarily you) here might like it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tabonga said: Actually the book doesn't prove much of anything except that it was (likely) possible for a slave to game the system. The book really has nothing to do with the topic (other than it is about slavery) - I was just pointing out an interesting read if someone (not necessarily you) here might like it, Yes it probably was. I mean i haven't read the book so i don't know what took place but with any human interaction you'll find all kinds of outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,282 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Well I guess we can add the South Park episode "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson" to the list of outragous parody sorts of things that somehow have no become reality! I mean, dude, SERIOUSLY?? BTW I like Timcast's/Tim Pool's videos, he's a good guy. I for one am "bending my knee" to NO ONE...except for when I proposed marriage and when I was student manager for my HS baseball team and we'd "take a knee" for our team meetings before and after games (I think that was shown in the "Butters' Bottom Bitch" episode). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NESfiend | 1,520 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) Man this thread went to 11 fast. I agree with the sentiments out forth in @CodysGameRoom post in large part. Wasnt surprised when gloves jumped in. I think its worth mentioning this shit isn't worth ending friendships over. It wont change anyone's mind anyway. Thats one of the saddest things about this era and what makes it different than any division since maybe Vietnam times. Ive watched friendships end in real life and thats crazy. Ive been in primarily republican circles and areas almost all my entire life. Always been able to debate back and forth over beers and only respect each other more for it, no matter how much we disagree. Now you don't go there because most of us probably know people who have lost friends that way. Obviously I've said who I think is to blame. I know a lot of people disagree. Regardless of who is to blame, we have to get back to respecting each other even if our politics are different. Edited June 8, 2020 by NESfiend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,198 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) Washing someone's feet is a very biblical thing. It's probably being used as a trap to trick right wing people to be outraged only for it to be thrown in their face. Protest have LOTS of symbolism used....this is absolutely a symbol. I don't think any one would willingly wash someones feet for no reason today. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.— John 13:14–17 (NKJV) Edited June 8, 2020 by ThePhleo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,282 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, NESfiend said: Man this thread went to 11 fast. I agree with the sentiments out forth in @CodysGameRoom post in large part. Wasnt surprised when gloves jumped in. I think its worth mentioning this shit isn't worth ending friendships over. It wont change anyone's mind anyway. Thats one of the saddest things about this era and what makes it different than any division since maybe Vietnam times. Ive watched friendships end in real life and thats crazy. Ive been in primarily republican circles and areas almost all my entire life. Always been able to debate back and forth over beers and only respect each other more for it, no matter how much we disagree. Now you don't go there because most of us probably know people who have lost friends that way. Obviously I've said who I think is to blame. I know a lot of people disagree. Regardless of who is to blame, we have to get back to respecting each other even if our politics are different. I absolutely agree...especially when I hear about families disowning children (I thought they were supposed to love us no matter what? I guess some of them lied ) just because their views are a little different...whether that be because they came out as LGBT or because (gasp!) they're Trump supporters (just to show it can happen for various reasons) or whatever idiotic reason it is. I mean for Pete's sake I'm just one regular guy in a regular apartment in a regular community with (to hear a cat forum talk ) a "regular" cat (which of course is NOT true!) who happens to have an opinion and an butt hole just like anyone else. I mean forgive me if this sounds like some sort of inferiority complex but what is there that I can say or do that hasn't been done already by tons of people in a much better way? Basically I feel the opposite of this: I mean, none of you guys would really hate me personally just because some of my views are a little different and often not all that popular at this forum...right? Edited June 8, 2020 by Estil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,198 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I think we're a different bunch here. Back in NintendoAge we still managed to have bitter enemies yet still post on the same forums and sometimes have normal conversation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardhead | 2,920 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, ThePhleo said: I think we're a different bunch here. Back in NintendoAge we still managed to have bitter enemies yet still post on the same forums and sometimes have normal conversation. Everyone has a breaking point. These days people are more on edge than ever before. Even me. I have “lost” friends due to the world we live in now and our differing opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NESfiend | 1,520 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ThePhleo said: I think we're a different bunch here. Back in NintendoAge we still managed to have bitter enemies yet still post on the same forums and sometimes have normal conversation. I think thats way more a part of our culture now than this site over that one. And I'll answer @Estil question with a resounding of course I would continue to enjoy your membership and cat worship regardless of your views. You cant ostracize people if you want to have a conversation like this go anywhere. I have always been pro choice. But I have known a lot of conservatives over the years that truly and firmly believe that should constitute murder. Ive never been convinced, but I will listen intently any time they want to and always be respectful. If you care enough about that to try to convince me, I'm all ears and maybe one day I will get convinced with the right piece of info. And if you respect me enough as a person to think my position is that outrageous, but still want to be my friend, thats maturity. People on the left feel that strongly about racial issues right now. We aren't changing any minds by telling people to screw off. You are going to have 0 influence doing that when the goal is to have some. Worst friendship I've seen end was two guys in their late 40s that were very close for 25 years. On that one, it was the trump guy who said I dont want to have anything to do with you. But the dem wasn't sad either. He said I don't have much use for that kind of person anyway. And it may well have been the other way around had the trump guy waited a week. This type of stuff is not just sad, but dangerous. Let's get back to newt and Bill, tipper and Reagan, etc. When people who disagreed still liked and respected each other and found common ground to get things done. Edited June 8, 2020 by NESfiend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,282 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, NESfiend said: I have always been pro choice. But I have known a lot of conservatives over the years that truly and firmly believe that should constitute murder. Ooooh, that's the dreaded "a-word" I warned about earlier...I really am not so sure about opening up that can of worms here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NESfiend | 1,520 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 14 minutes ago, Estil said: Ooooh, that's the dreaded "a-word" I warned about earlier...I really am not so sure about opening up that can of worms here. That wasn't the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,282 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, NESfiend said: That wasn't the idea. Yeah I sorta figured that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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