Goemon 2 & 3 for SNES Have Been Translated

[Tanooki | 4,949]

3 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

You do realize that you're referring to a group of human beings and their whole Identity. A group who has historically been harassed, injured, and killed for simply being who they are.

They only ask that you not perpetuate the bigotry, and yet you deride them as fragile and sensitive.

One even posted here laying out their position.

Yes I do completely.  I saw the post you refer to, it doesn't change my stance on being fragile over attacking someone translating a decades old game to keep to the original material and how wrong it was to destroy the person that badly online over it either.  People need these days to back up and think before they overreact online and in some cases locally too.  The out of control rage over issues these days has gone too far and the responses are far well over the top and unnecessary especially if someone wants to change things and minds.  Stomping the crap out of someone isn't setting a good example to anyone, fear tactics and violence (implied or realized) shouldn't be the benchmark.

[Tulpa | 3,529]

1 minute ago, ifightdragons said:

So what if "one" (as you put it) posted here? The post had its serious flaws, and is not considered holy as such.

They still posted about how they feel. And yet people are still saying they're just being fragile and sensitive.

That's insulting and beyond the pale. And the reason why transgender people still can't be free to live their lives like the rest of us.

Again, no one is saying that attacking the translator was right. But this hardheaded insistence that there wasn't anything wrong with the translation is again, a weird hill to die on.

[Tulpa | 3,529]

8 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Yes I do completely.  I saw the post you refer to, it doesn't change my stance on being fragile over attacking someone translating a decades old game to keep to the original material and how wrong it was to destroy the person that badly online over it either.  People need these days to back up and think before they overreact online and in some cases locally too.  The out of control rage over issues these days has gone too far and the responses are far well over the top and unnecessary especially if someone wants to change things and minds.  Stomping the crap out of someone isn't setting a good example to anyone, fear tactics and violence (implied or realized) shouldn't be the benchmark.

No, I agree, the translator shouldn't have been attacked, but you saying you'll just translate it the same way with no thought to the transgender people that take the word "tranny" as a slur? They explained why that hurts them. And yet you would ignore that.

I dunno, man. 

If you guys are coming from this from a position of "sticking it to the SJWs", then this will never end.

Someone has to be the first to break the cycle. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Tulpa

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

8 minutes ago, PineappleLawnchair said:

And i'm saying that doesn't make it acceptable

Not a soul here is saying it is acceptable. I can't speak for others, all I'm saying is, that IS the way it is.

 

11 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

False equivalent entirely.  Accidentally basically manslaughtering a dog is not on the same level as saying tranny.  Tranny isn't going to make a transexual have a heart attack and die on contact with the word because it's poison to them.

Fair enough, but you KNOW the point I'm trying to make and are intentionally being obtuse.

9 minutes ago, ifightdragons said:

You do realize that you and the offended party are the dog in this awkwardly constructed similé? 

Wrong.  I'll spell it out. The translator is the human and the dog is the gang who attacked him. If the human hadn't left the food out (translator hadn't used the slur), the dog wouldn't have eaten it (gang wouldn't have attacked). Pretty simple.

11 minutes ago, ifightdragons said:

And that you are wrong, because you do have control of your actions and even your emotions.

Literally the point I've been making the whole time, so, thanks for agreeing with me I guess??

[cj_robot | 545]

13 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

False equivalent entirely.  Accidentally basically manslaughtering a dog is not on the same level as saying tranny.  Tranny isn't going to make a transexual have a heart attack and die on contact with the word because it's poison to them.

Imagine you work with somebody and you find out that you've been calling them by the wrong name for a week. You'd probably feel kinda crappy. Now imagine the person tells you that in fact that name you've been calling is actually the name of a person who's been traumatizing them for their whole life. Just hearing the name keeps bringing back painful memories.

Now you perhaps had no way of knowing the pain you've unintentionally been causing, but discovering this information, you'd still probably feel like shit and apologize. Hopefully you wouldn't be like, "Well suck it up, sissy! BTW, I'm going to keep calling you that name anyway because it's my right! Stop being so sensitive!"

[PineappleLawnchair | 88]

1 minute ago, cj_robot said:

Imagine you work with somebody and you find out that you've been calling them by the wrong name for a week. You'd probably feel kinda crappy. Now imagine the person tells you that in fact that name you've been calling is actually the name of a person who's been traumatizing them for their whole life. Just hearing the name keeps bringing back painful memories.

Now you perhaps had no way of knowing the pain you've unintentionally been causing, but discovering this information, you'd still probably feel like shit and apologize. Hopefully you wouldn't be like, "Well suck it up, sissy! BTW, I'm going to keep calling you that name anyway because it's my right! Stop being so sensitive!"

Why the fuck would a random co-worker go in depth about their life to you like that. If you're friends with them, then you would already know these kinds of things and know how to speak with them, and if you aren't you wouldn't deeply care because it's none of your business, or even make you start to avoid them because it's obvious they are an emotional minefield for your job.

[cj_robot | 545]

Political correctness is not about censorship, or suppressing freedom of speech, or about forcing people to think my way. It's not supposed to be anyway.

It'sabout being respectful of other's feelings, even when you don't understand them. It's about being decent human beings. It's about caring for people other than ourselves. It's that fucking simple.

[GPX | 1,372]

18 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

No, but it continues the process of hate.

 

13 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Yes I do completely.  I saw the post you refer to, it doesn't change my stance on being fragile over attacking someone translating a decades old game to keep to the original material and how wrong it was to destroy the person that badly online over it either.  People need these days to back up and think before they overreact online and in some cases locally too.  The out of control rage over issues these days has gone too far and the responses are far well over the top and unnecessary especially if someone wants to change things and minds.  Stomping the crap out of someone isn't setting a good example to anyone, fear tactics and violence (implied or realized) shouldn't be the benchmark.

We need to think in general, who's actually propagating the hate?

 

[cj_robot | 545]

2 minutes ago, PineappleLawnchair said:

Why the fuck would a random co-worker go in depth about their life to you like that. If you're friends with them, then you would already know these kinds of things and know how to speak with them, and if you aren't you wouldn't deeply care because it's none of your business, or even make you start to avoid them because it's obvious they are an emotional minefield for your job.

So basically, if you know someone personally, you will treat them with respect. If you don't know them, then who the hell cares? Screw em, right?

Wow, real nice.

[PineappleLawnchair | 88]

3 minutes ago, cj_robot said:

So basically, if you know someone personally, you will treat them with respect. If you don't know them, then who the hell cares? Screw em, right?

Wow, real nice.

Unless you lived an especially exciting or traumatic life, most people aren't going to want to hear your life's story, especially not while they're at work. Has nothing to do with respect, or the names that you are referred to, for that matter.

Edited February 4, 2020 by PineappleLawnchair

[GPX | 1,372]

In the above example, one apologises, and the other person carried on with the hissy fit, and wanted a fisticuff.

From the transgender's point of view: "Why did you call me sir?" -> upset.

From the employee's point of view: "My mistake, you look more like a man so I called you such, I didn't mean to offend. I'm sorry if I offended, I apologize....Ok, I apologized and you're still being threatening. I could lose my job over this. If I confront you physically, I could end up in a hospital. Please stop.." -> upset.

Political correctness versus a mistake. It's ok to be upset and quickly move on. Being upset doesn't give you a right to carry on to the point of causing someone else a mental breakdown.

 

[Tulpa | 3,529]

12 minutes ago, GPX said:

 

We need to think in general, who's actually propagating the hate?

 

 

Again, no one is saying that the translator should have been attacked the way they were.

But instead of saying "yeah, he screwed up, stop attacking him*", doubling down on the use of a slur, in the name of free speech, is what will keep this going.

But then again, maybe some want this to keep going. So they can keep their anger brewing.

 

*I know some did say that, but they sure got lost in the fray.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Tulpa

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

4 minutes ago, GPX said:

Political correctness versus a mistake. It's ok to be upset and quickly move on. Being upset doesn't give you a right to carry on to the point of causing someone else a mental breakdown.

No one's saying it is ok, lol. 

[Tulpa | 3,529]

3 minutes ago, GPX said:

In the above example, one apologises, and the other person carried on with the hissy fit, and wanted a fisticuff.

From the transgender's point of view: "Why did you call me sir?" -> upset.

From the employee's point of view: "My mistake, you look more like a man so I called you such, I didn't mean to offend. I'm sorry if I offended, I apologize....Ok, I apologized and you're still being threatening. I could lose my job over this. If I confront you physically, I could end up in a hospital. Please stop.." -> upset.

Political correctness versus a mistake. It's ok to be upset and quickly move on. Being upset doesn't give you a right to carry on to the point of causing someone else a mental breakdown.

 

I agree, an overreaction that doesn't help.

But if the employee doubles down and continued to refer to the person as "him", isn't he also culpable?

Because a lot of that happened with the translation.

[PineappleLawnchair | 88]

5 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I agree, an overreaction that doesn't help.

But if the employee doubles down and continued to refer to the person as "him", isn't he also culpable?

Because a lot of that happened with the translation.

Where? Fucking where did the guy double down. Unless buckling over and offering a complete apology, an update to the patch, and his complete god damn exile from the hobby is now considered to be doubling down, and all for the benefit of white people who want to play at being a crusader.

[GPX | 1,372]

3 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I agree, an overreaction that doesn't help.

But if the employee doubles down and continued to refer to the person as "him", isn't he also culpable?

Because a lot of that happened with the translation.

Well this is the actual problem. You can't just focus on an unintentional mistake by the translator, and ignore all the hissy fits surrounding this offense (to some). Because if you're (as in anyone) putting all the blame on the translator, it basically allows unlimited rage by those offended. By promoting political correctness, we are unintentionally promoting exaggerated outrage by those who take offense to a lot of things. Outrage needs to be controlled, not given unlimited powers.

[cj_robot | 545]

18 minutes ago, PineappleLawnchair said:

Unless you lived an especially exciting or traumatic life, most people aren't going to want to hear your life's story, especially not while they're at work. Has nothing to do with respect, or the names that you are referred to, for that matter.

You did read my analagy where I used the word "traumatizing", right?

Anyway, my point is, if somebody is being caused harm by some action that you are committing, wouldn't the decent response be to stop doing that thing? It doesn't matter if you care about their life story or not. To casually dismiss someone else's pain is truly awful.

[PineappleLawnchair | 88]

1 minute ago, GPX said:

Well this is the actual problem. You can't just focus on an unintentional mistake by the translator, and ignore all the hissy fits surrounding this offense (to some). Because if you're (as in anyone) putting all the blame on the translator, it basically allows unlimited rage by those offended. By promoting political correctness, we are unintentionally promoting exaggerated outrage by those who take offense to a lot of things. Outrage needs to be controlled, not given unlimited powers.

And you really shouldn't be trying to clean up the past anyways. It only serves to make it look nicer to the people of the future.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

Just now, cj_robot said:

To casually dismiss someone else's pain is truly awful.

Which is being done by numerous people ITT, unfortunately. 

[Tulpa | 3,529]

1 minute ago, GPX said:

Well this is the actual problem. You can't just focus on an unintentional mistake by the translator, and ignore all the hissy fits surrounding this offense (to some). Because if you're (as in anyone) putting all the blame on the translator, it basically allows unlimited rage by those offended. By promoting political correctness, we are unintentionally promoting exaggerated outrage by those who take offense to a lot of things. Outrage needs to be controlled, not given unlimited powers.

No one (here at least) is putting all of the blame on the translator. He did make a mistake, but none of us are saying it should have gone down that way.

But the whole defending the use of the slur is just baffling.

[PineappleLawnchair | 88]

12 minutes ago, cj_robot said:

You did read my analagy where I used the word "traumatizing", right?

You did read when i said "especially", right? Gotta have more to your story than "I didn't like my original name" to get people to want to hear it. Again, has nothing to do with going to a random co-working and saying "Please call my [x]" and just leaving the baggage out of the conversation.

7 minutes ago, cj_robot said:

Translation patch written for Western culture in 2020 is not required to conform to 1994 Japanese social norms.

Nor should it be shacked to the subjective expectations of the present.

6 minutes ago, cj_robot said:

Never mind, pal. My entire analogy clearly went way over your head. I'm not explaining myself any further.

Good, your explanation is about as wanted as someone going over their mundane life's story to me while i work.

Edited February 4, 2020 by PineappleLawnchair

[cj_robot | 545]

1 minute ago, PineappleLawnchair said:

And you really shouldn't be trying to clean up the past anyways. It only serves to make it look nicer to the people of the future.

Lol, noone is trying to clean up the past. Gnabare Goemon 3 (c) 1994 Konami still exists and always will with derogatory term intact.

Translation patch written for Western culture in 2020 is not required to conform to 1994 Japanese social norms.

[cj_robot | 545]

Just now, PineappleLawnchair said:

You did read when i said "especially", right? Gotta have more to your story than "I didn't like my original name" to get people to want to hear it. Again, has nothing to do with going to a random co-working and saying "Please call my [x]" and just leaving the baggage out of the conversation.

 

Never mind, pal. My entire analogy clearly went way over your head. I'm not explaining myself any further.

[GPX | 1,372]

1 minute ago, Tulpa said:

No one (here at least) is putting all of the blame on the translator. He did make a mistake, but none of us are saying it should have gone down that way.

But the whole defending the use of the slur is just baffling.

Some see it as an offense in a sexual context. Some see it as a direct translation of a script. The translator is not giving out thoughts, but merely doing a translation. He isn't responsible for everyone's mental welfare much the same as a movie director directing a plot with blood and guts splattering all over the place, isn't responsible for those easily offended with past physical traumas. I'm not trying to be rude, but to make a fair analogy.

[ifightdragons | 234]

3 hours ago, cj_robot said:

You did read my analagy where I used the word "traumatizing", right?

Anyway, my point is, if somebody is being caused harm by some action that you are committing, wouldn't the decent response be to stop doing that thing? It doesn't matter if you care about their life story or not. To casually dismiss someone else's pain is truly awful.

Not necessarily, it depends entirely upon what the action is.

It's just as indecent to expect otherwise.

Edit: And not to mention, define harm. I'll draw a very distinct line between actual physical harm, and being offended. They're not in the same ballpark as far as I'm concerned. You should not have to risk physical harm, but you should risk being offended everyday.

Edited February 4, 2020 by ifightdragons