Tulpa | 3,488 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, GPX said: Some see it as an offense in a sexual context. Some see it as a direct translation of a script. The translator is not giving out thoughts, but merely doing a translation. He isn't responsible for everyone's mental welfare much the same as a movie director directing a plot with blood and guts splattering all over the place, isn't responsible for those easily offended with past physical traumas. I'm not trying to be rude, but to make a fair analogy. It's not just offensive in a sexual context. It's an entire group of human beings' identity. Again, if he had translated a questionable Japanese term for African Americans into the n-word, would we be having this conversation? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj_robot | 540 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, ifightdragons said: Not necessarily, it depends entirely upon what the action is. It's just as indecent to expect otherwise. When it's as simple as changing one word in your vocabulary, then yeah, it is the only decent thing to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,488 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, ifightdragons said: Not necessarily, it depends entirely upon what the action is. It's just as indecent to expect otherwise. I would expect you to stop and consider it, though. If you encounter someone you think is male, call them he/him/his, and they say "I refer to myself as she/her/hers, please use that", do you continue to use male pronouns? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifightdragons | 234 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, cj_robot said: When it's as simple as changing one word in your vocabulary, then yeah, it is the only decent thing to do. I disagree. It depends entirely upon what word it is, and both how and why it's being used. This translator's use of the word tranny is the perfect example, and I'll defend it. I wouldn't deliberately try to cause anyone harm or distress. That would be evil. But that's not simply what you're advocating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,369 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Just now, Tulpa said: It's not just offensive in a sexual context. It's an entire group of human beings' identity. Again, if he had translated a questionable Japanese term for African Americans into the n-word, would we be having this conversation? I think the problem is that the people offended are thinking that they're speaking on behalf of ALL transgenders, and that you believe so. I honestly believe some transgenders can see it for what it is - a translation of an old retro game. I have spoken to a very intellectual female transgender on a sporting forum where there is still tons of sexist attitudes, but yet, that female transgender is still open for discussions and helping others to understand the processes involved of being a transgender and not give outrage as what I'm reading of this Goemon translation. Basically for the sexism to stop, both ends need to be more respectful of each other. Not just find flaws from one end, and the other end to attack senselessly. That would look more to me like an abuse of power, rather than trying to make a point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, ifightdragons said: This translator's use of the word tranny is the perfect example, and I'll defend it. And that says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,488 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, ifightdragons said: I disagree. It depends entirely upon what word it is, and both how and why it's being used. This translator's use of the word tranny is the perfect example, and I'll defend it. I wouldn't deliberately try to cause anyone harm or distress. That would be evil. But that's not simply what you're advocating. "Tranny" though does cause harm and distress to the transgender community. Just like other slurs cause harm to others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, GPX said: have spoken to a very intellectual female transgender on a sporting forum "I have a black friend" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifightdragons | 234 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tulpa said: I would expect you to stop and consider it, though. If you encounter someone you think is male, call them he/him/his, and they say "I refer to myself as she/her/hers, please use that", do you continue to use male pronouns? If I was approached in a respectful manner, and I sensed no intention of guilting or forcing my hand to bend to their will, e.g. a NORMAL social interaction, I would gladly refer to them as to their preferred binary pronoun, he or she. If they tried to force me into accepting their worldview and feelings, I wouldn't oblige if they asked me for anything. Generally, if you like someone, you play along and treat them respectfully. I'd expect no more or less from anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineappleLawnchair | 88 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Frankly, even if there WAS a game with the N-word in it, and it was perfectly translated, the backlash would pale in comparison to this. I fully believe that to be the case, because people seem more protective of transsexuals than they are of other races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, ifightdragons said: Generally, if you like someone, you play along and treat them respectfully. I'd expect no more or less from anyone else. So what about strangers? You don't "like" them, you don't even know them. So fuck them then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,488 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, GPX said: I think the problem is that the people offended are thinking that they're speaking on behalf of ALL transgenders, and that you believe so. I honestly believe some transgenders can see it for what it is - a translation of an old retro game. I have spoken to a very intellectual female transgender on a sporting forum where there is still tons of sexist attitudes, but yet, that female transgender is still open for discussions and helping others to understand the processes involved of being a transgender and not give outrage as what I'm reading of this Goemon translation. Basically for the sexism to stop, both ends need to be more respectful of each other. Not just find flaws from one end, and the other end to attack senselessly. That would look more to me like an abuse of power, rather than trying to make a point. It is widely regarded as a slur, and some being okay with it doesn't make it okay to use indiscriminately. Some African Americans are okay with the n-bomb being casually used. Yet most people don't use it whenever they please. I agree that both sides had their share of poor choices. But it's the doubling down on the use of the slur and trying to justify its use that just doesn't sit right for some of us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifightdragons | 234 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said: So what about strangers? You don't "like" them, you don't even know them. So fuck them then?? How and why did you infer that? I'm usually very neutral with strangers, even neutral-positive. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,488 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, ifightdragons said: If I was approached in a respectful manner, and I sensed no intention of guilting or forcing my hand to bend to their will, e.g. a NORMAL social interaction, I would gladly refer to them as to their preferred binary pronoun, he or she. If they tried to force me into accepting their worldview and feelings, I wouldn't oblige if they asked me for anything. Generally, if you like someone, you play along and treat them respectfully. I'd expect no more or less from anyone else. If you said to someone "Hello, sir" and they said "I'm a woman, you piece of shit!", I'm right there beside you saying "Chill out, he wasn't trying to offend you." But the whole insistence on using the slur "tranny", you are putting it on the transgender people who haven't attacked you. What about them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj_robot | 540 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ifightdragons said: If I was approached in a respectful manner, and I sensed no intention of guilting or forcing my hand to bend to their will, e.g. a NORMAL social interaction, I would gladly refer to them as to their preferred binary pronoun, he or she. If they tried to force me into accepting their worldview and feelings, I wouldn't oblige if they asked me for anything. Generally, if you like someone, you play along and treat them respectfully. I'd expect no more or less from anyone else. Understandable. The best course is for everyone to be respectful of each other, on every side of the issue. Once again, nobody here is supporting the online harassment the translator received. Some people just want to fight. But also, some people have had to deal with so much hate in their lives that one instance can push them over the edge, where they let their emotions go out of control. That, to me, is also understandable. It's why MLK Jr had to work so hard to promote PEACEFUL protests, in a time where tensions were so high that many people's natural reactions would have been to literally fight back and cause harm to their oppressors. Edited February 4, 2020 by cj_robot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, ifightdragons said: How and why did you infer that? I'm usually very neutral with strangers, even neutral-positive. Give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm literally asking a question. You said "Generally, if you like someone, you play along and treat them respectfully." So that is why I am asking how you would treat strangers. Anything inferred would have been from your general disposition in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifightdragons | 234 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said: I'm literally asking a question. You said "Generally, if you like someone, you play along and treat them respectfully." So that is why I am asking how you would treat strangers. Anything inferred would have been from your general disposition in this thread. "So fuck them then??" That's all you Cody, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineappleLawnchair | 88 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) No, he's taking what i said and trying to apply to you. Or at least a mangled version of it. Edited February 4, 2020 by PineappleLawnchair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifightdragons | 234 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, cj_robot said: Understandable. The best course is for everyone to be respectful of each other, on every side of the issue. Once again, nobody here is supporting the online harassment the translator received. Some people just want to fight. But also, some people have had to deal with so much hate in their lives that one instance can push them over the edge, where they let their emotions go out of control. That, to me, is also understandable. It's why MLK Jr had to work so hard to promote PEACEFUL protests, in a time where tensions were so high that many people's natural reactions would have been to literally fight back and cause harm to their oppressors. That's well put. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifightdragons | 234 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, PineappleLawnchair said: No, he's taking what i said and trying to apply to you. Alright, thanks for the heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, ifightdragons said: "So fuck them then??" That's all you Cody, not me. Hey man, I asked a question and you answered it. "I'm usually very neutral with strangers, even neutral-positive. Give people the benefit of the doubt." My bad for inferring anything different. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,488 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ifightdragons said: That's well put. All of us here wish this was handled better. Going ballistic wasn't the best response. It hurts the side trying to support the transgender community. No question. But the other side going "I'll use this slur so fuck you!" isn't going to settle it, either. That also puts their side in a bad light. I'm glad our discussion here has been mostly civil. Some of us are passionate, but I would like to think that we are a community able to have a conversation. Edited February 4, 2020 by Tulpa 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,761 Administrator · Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I was wondering why this thread was SO popular. How did we get here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineappleLawnchair | 88 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Just now, Gloves said: I was wondering why this thread was SO popular. How did we get here? Like the guy before you said, passionate conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,488 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Gloves said: I was wondering why this thread was SO popular. How did we get here? I feel for the OP. "Hey, my Goemon thread is pretty popular. I wonder what they're talking about... WTF?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts