What do you consider the greatest game ever created?

[Link | 2,709]

It’s SMB3, and no, it doesn’t need a battery.

It might make playing the game more compatible with today’s lifestyle, but it would fundamentally change the way it works, and for the worse, IMO. If you can pick it up from the middle any time, not starting out in Grass Land and making your way on, you don’t thoroughly learn the levels as you go on. I liken this game to an album that you listen to over and over again. It grabs you at first but you can’t really know any album without the repetition. You won’t appreciate the banjo or piano riff hidden in the background of a rock song much the first time. If you’re done the first time you pass it, you’ll never catch it. If you cross each world of Mario 3 only once, you’ll never get a white mushroom house, figure out the card games, or tips like jumping through the tornado in 2-2 with a koopa shell and then turn around to kill the sun like a boss. Maybe if levels didn’t lock when you finish them, I can hear you call out. You could play them over and over again and work on that. No, says I. Triggering a white house requires perfection. If you can try over and over with no consequence (such as lost prior progress) then it loses the point. And you could forever return to levels like 1-2 to racks up dozens of extra lives whenever you want. It would utterly upend the balance. SMB3 teases and pushes you, forcing you to move on. You can’t go back, and you can’t stop. It is made for epic all-night runs. It is made for obsession. I appreciate it because of the balance and restriction the way I’ve never appreciated other, later 2D platformers like SMW, NSMB, DKCR, or Rayman Origins. You can one and done levels there, and they push you to replay by putting in dragon coins or collectible letters, but that’s a cheap gimmick. They’re all fine games, but not ones that I want to play through a dozen more times in my life. 

I would also vote for Pac-Man.

[Richardhead | 2,813]

On 12/6/2019 at 10:29 AM, skinnygrinny said:

Tetris is a shit puzzle game.

smb3 is the greatest game ever created and the most overrated at the same time.

You’re wrong. SMB 2 is the greatest SMB game. Neither are the greatest game ever though.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Richardhead

[Hammerfestus | 3,841]

1 hour ago, TDIRunner said:

While everything you mention after the bold is true, none of it negates the need for a battery save.  The length of the game alone is more than enough to justify a battery save.  

Warp whistles are great for creating short cuts, but they are not an alternative for battery saves.   

The lack of a battery save was a cheap way of cutting costs and nothing more.

I don’t know about that. I never had an issue just warping to whatever level I left off at. It’s not like there’s any real sort of personalization of a given playthrough other than what items you happen to collect.  And real men don’t need those.  Other than tanooki and hammer bros suits.  Everyone needs those.

[Sumez | 2,950]

10 hours ago, TDIRunner said:

Warp whistles are great for creating short cuts, but they are not an alternative for battery saves.   

Why not?

edit: Ok, this argument is over. @Link puts it better than anyone else could.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Sumez

[Sumez | 2,950]

edit: Double-post and no delete feature :3

Edited December 13, 2019 by Sumez

[TDIRunner | 2,736]

6 hours ago, Sumez said:

Why not?

edit: Ok, this argument is over. @Link puts it better than anyone else could.

Because it doesn't put you back in the same spot.  With a battery save, you can play through the first 3 worlds, save, and turn it off for the night, and the next day you start where you left off.  Warp whistles don't allow you to do that.  It's not even close to the same thing.  If we were talking about just about any other game, we wouldn't give it the free pass that SMB3 gets.  

Again, it's not like the technology didn't exists, or that it was too new to test out on such a big title.  Nintendo was being cheap.  End of story.  I love Nintendo as much as anyone else here, but sometimes you have to call them on their BS.  SMB3 is still one of the greatest games ever created.  But like any game it has its share of issues.  

[Sumez | 2,950]

5 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

Because it doesn't put you back in the same spot. 

Why do you need to be put back in the same spot though? What's the advantage? We're talking about the quality of the game here, not the quality of being able to skip parts of the game you've already played - which IMO sounds like the description of a less great game.

[Tulpa | 3,493]

24 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Why do you need to be put back in the same spot though? 

For me, that's how I want to play the game. I want to pick up where I left off. 

[TDIRunner | 2,736]

27 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Why do you need to be put back in the same spot though? What's the advantage? We're talking about the quality of the game here, not the quality of being able to skip parts of the game you've already played - which IMO sounds like the description of a less great game.

Because I shouldn't be forced to play the entire game in a single sitting.  

[Sumez | 2,950]

Good thing you have the warp whistles.
I feel like we're going in circles

[TDIRunner | 2,736]

29 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Good thing you have the warp whistles.
I feel like we're going in circles

Which require you to start from the beginning of the game.  They are a nice feature, but at the end of the day, it's a cheap alternative to a save battery.  There is no excuse to go cheap on one of the greatest games ever created.  

[jonebone | 1,307]

A resume feature is a must.

I've seen my favorite Xmas movies 100s of times.  Yet, if I'm watching it for the first time this season and I fall asleep in the middle, I want to resume and pickup where I left off.  I don't want to watch the first hour back from the beginning just because it's a great movie and I enjoy it.

The lack of save states in SMB3 is a big knock, yet it is easily remedied if you play the SNES version or the NES classic version.  

[Tulpa | 3,493]

15 minutes ago, jonebone said:

The lack of save states in SMB3 is a big knock, yet it is easily remedied if you play the SNES version of the NES classic version.  

This. If the warp whistle system was all that was needed, why was the save feature on All Stars? Or SMW? Or Kirby's Adventure? Or any number of long games.

SMB3 is too long for a single sitting playthrough for a lot of people. If you can do it, great, but that's not universal. You could have kept the warp whistles and still had a battery save. Heck, both were in the original Zelda; granted not the same way, but the concept is there.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Tulpa

[DefaultGen | 5,403]

I don't think it's good or some kind of intentional design choice that SMB3 doesn't have a save feature, but it is a distinctive part of the game (playing through it every time, finding warp whistles, using different paths, etc.). I don't think it's necessarily worse either. It's like a black and white movie in a world where most movies have color. It's a different experience than beating SMW then jumping around to completed courses at your leisure. It's possible I would have played through it less or not worried about secrets and shortcuts as much if I could save, but I don't know. I certainly would have played it differently.

[Link | 2,709]

7 hours ago, jonebone said:

A resume feature is a must.

I've seen my favorite Xmas movies 100s of times.  Yet, if I'm watching it for the first time this season and I fall asleep in the middle, I want to resume and pickup where I left off.  I don't want to watch the first hour back from the beginning just because it's a great movie and I enjoy it.

If you fall asleep in the middle of Mario 3, it will be where you left off when you wake up