Music Debate #143: Beastie Boys

[Reed Rothchild | 9,563]

 

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,563]

Bump

[Soma | 73]

10/10 homie

[doner24 | 1,197]

10. Although I don’t listen to them much any more, they were a huge part of my youth and Paul’s Boutique is a masterpiece. 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

Not a personal favorite, but still really good. 8/10.

[Link | 2,721]

I need to add more of their stuff to my collection. Brass Monkey is annoying, but when I like their songs I like them a lot. To the 5 Buroughs is top to bottom absolutely fantastic. 

[G-type | 2,499]

Check your head is an awesome album. I like the mix of funk jam tracks and hip hop

[a3quit4s | 4,121]

10/10 been listening to them for 20+ years and haven’t gotten sick of them yet. Get it together is one of my all time favs. RIP MCA

[fox | 1,669]

Alrite but way overplayed.  If I went the rest of my life without hearing You Gotta Fight For Your Right to Party, I would die happy

[AirVillain | 490]

Probably the worst best rap groups of all time?  

I mean... I like some of their stuff, but the rhymes are ultra basic. 

Can't really compare them in terms of "hip hop" to people like Rakim, Eminem, or Biggie. (Not to mention Big Daddy Kane, Tupac, Jay Z, etc., etc., etc.)

Rick Rubin is a genius and if it wasn't for "Walk this way" by Run DMC/Aerosmith being such a huge hit, we probably would have never heard of Beastie Boys. 

I feel kinda bad shitting on them like that.... but.... I'm jus speaking the truth. 

Listen to a Rakim song and then listen to Beastie Boys. The lyrical content cannot be compared. 

TO BE FAIR THOUGH.... They got some bangin' tracks!!!!

Sabotage??? That shit wales. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by AirVillain

[G-type | 2,499]

2 hours ago, AirVillain said:

Can't really compare them in terms of "hip hop" to people like Rakim, Eminem, or Biggie. (Not to mention Big Daddy Kane, Tupac, Jay Z, etc., etc., etc.)

This is like saying Taco Bell doesn't compare to "real mexican" food. They're their own thing and when you want to hear the Beastie Boys, nothing else will satisfy that craving.

[Link | 2,721]

Living where I do, I ain't never gonna defend Taco Bell. They don't taste bad per se and neither does Domino's but in a big city I've got so many options for better quality ingredients and more  equitable business model, and often at a similar price. 

Musicwise, it's just a different style and focus. Take this as you will because I don't like a lot of rap. For me it's pretty much Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, old school hip hop like Grandmaster Flash and Run DMC, dancy stuff like Herbie Hancock or Egyptian Lover, or crossover stuff like Body Count and acts that occasionally include a rap like Pop Will Eat Itself or that one Ministry song. 

So I just listened to When I B On Tha Mic by Rakim, and it kind of exemplifies what I don't like about a lot of rap. He may have great lyrics, and be telling stories, and I do appreciate that in my preferred genres. But the instrumentation, beats, whatever, the non voice parts and overall sound to me are very repetitive. I like an A-B-A-B type of structure, so much the better if you add a C, a D, a solo somewhere, or multiple movements. But with lots of rap the melody and rhythm never change over the course of the song. I also find a lot of the sounds grating. (I freely admit that may just be my own subcultural bias but I guaran-fucking-tee I can give back something way more hated in return. Strategies Against Architecture by Einstürzende Neubauten, anybody? Deaf by Foetus? Children of Bodom?) 

Anyway, Beastie Boys came from that aforementioned oldschool hip hop and breakdance scene that was more racially integrated and I think there was more cross-pollination of ideas that way, maybe. (Why that dissolved is a WHOOOLE other conversation)

I read Rakim's been around since the early 80s (with Eric B.) so I looked some more, and I can really get down with stuff like I Ain't No Joke and Musical Master. 

So I'll say with the lyrical stuff, Beasties aren't bad, maybe you consider their lyrical flow lesser-than, as a fine restaurant or small storefront run by an immigrant family is better than Taco Bell for those with certain refined palates in Mexican food or rap music, but I here I think it's just a different flavor or attitude. I'd say chocolate or vanilla ice cream but, uh, let's go with mint or strawberry, hey? 

Metal has approximately 700 subgenres and fiction can be historical, science, comedy, dramatic, or all of the above and more. No reason why all "rap" goes into the same bucket. 

@AirVillain have you given To The 5 Boroughs (Beastie Boys 6th album, 2004) a shot? Whatcha think about the verses on this track or this one? (KMFDM tracks feat. Ocelot)

 

[AirVillain | 490]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:19 PM, G-type said:

This is like saying Taco Bell doesn't compare to "real mexican" food. They're their own thing and when you want to hear the Beastie Boys, nothing else will satisfy that craving.

Excellent analogy. Perhaps I was a llllliiiiiiittle harsh by saying you "can't" compare them. 
 

On 7/13/2023 at 11:54 PM, Link said:

Living where I do, I ain't never gonna defend Taco Bell. They don't taste bad per se and neither does Domino's but in a big city I've got so many options for better quality ingredients and more  equitable business model, and often at a similar price. 

Musicwise, it's just a different style and focus. Take this as you will because I don't like a lot of rap. For me it's pretty much Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, old school hip hop like Grandmaster Flash and Run DMC, dancy stuff like Herbie Hancock or Egyptian Lover, or crossover stuff like Body Count and acts that occasionally include a rap like Pop Will Eat Itself or that one Ministry song. 

So I just listened to When I B On Tha Mic by Rakim, and it kind of exemplifies what I don't like about a lot of rap. He may have great lyrics, and be telling stories, and I do appreciate that in my preferred genres. But the instrumentation, beats, whatever, the non voice parts and overall sound to me are very repetitive. I like an A-B-A-B type of structure, so much the better if you add a C, a D, a solo somewhere, or multiple movements. But with lots of rap the melody and rhythm never change over the course of the song. I also find a lot of the sounds grating. (I freely admit that may just be my own subcultural bias but I guaran-fucking-tee I can give back something way more hated in return. Strategies Against Architecture by Einstürzende Neubauten, anybody? Deaf by Foetus? Children of Bodom?) 

Anyway, Beastie Boys came from that aforementioned oldschool hip hop and breakdance scene that was more racially integrated and I think there was more cross-pollination of ideas that way, maybe. (Why that dissolved is a WHOOOLE other conversation)

I read Rakim's been around since the early 80s (with Eric B.) so I looked some more, and I can really get down with stuff like I Ain't No Joke and Musical Master. 

So I'll say with the lyrical stuff, Beasties aren't bad, maybe you consider their lyrical flow lesser-than, as a fine restaurant or small storefront run by an immigrant family is better than Taco Bell for those with certain refined palates in Mexican food or rap music, but I here I think it's just a different flavor or attitude. I'd say chocolate or vanilla ice cream but, uh, let's go with mint or strawberry, hey? 

Metal has approximately 700 subgenres and fiction can be historical, science, comedy, dramatic, or all of the above and more. No reason why all "rap" goes into the same bucket. 

@AirVillain have you given To The 5 Boroughs (Beastie Boys 6th album, 2004) a shot? Whatcha think about the verses on this track or this one? (KMFDM tracks feat. Ocelot)

 

Very well said. I agree with lots of what you said. 

Not to say Beastie Boys suck shit, because they definitely don't... I'll certainly give that album a listen. I'm going to start with Licensed to Ill, again, though.... and work my way up. I like to listen to entire albums, and I have listened to a bunch of theirs before. Not the 5 Boroughs, though specifically, so for sure that's on the list. 

Very good analogy with the flavours. I definitely agree with that. So yeah... saying you "can't" compare them is certainly harsh... but this is the internet, I'm just trying to make my point, haha. 

But yeah... I guess my point is that I like me some Beastie Boys, but I'm not listening to them for the lyrical diversity/content... it's more for the banging tracks that hit hard. 

I mean.... the Beastie Boys flow kind of works with that type of "Rick Rubin classic 80's hip hop/rock beat" so it's not terrible, just not quite as lyrically stimulating. 

You tell me not to smile.... Versatile. Style. Profile. ---- Worthwhile. -Always brings me back when I heard "ooh child".... etc. etc. etc. 

They're ALWAYS hitting the same beats. 

But listen to Jay Z and Biggie and they switch up their flows so smooth it's incredible. I know it's kind of cheating using two of the greatest ever, but it makes for an easier comparison. 

That being said.... Jay-Z and Biggie DON'T have the bangin' tracks like The Beastie Boys.... so respect. 

[Sumez | 2,983]

Classic. Punk but it's hip hop, and I don't even like hip hop.

Saw them live once, years after they were "the thing", and it was still great.

 

[JamesRobot | 5,815]

Beastie Boys just slip into the 10.  I love their old school roots and what they developed into through the 90s. The hits are great of course, particularly in the Check Your Head/Ill Communications era.

But I really dig the funky jams that show up starting on Paul's Boutique.  My favorite album is their instrumental compilation, In Sounds From Way Out.  (Which is actually missing their best funky tune Futterman's Rule yet is included on the French import release, but I digress.). 

 

[Link | 2,721]

7 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

My favorite album is their instrumental compilation, In Sounds From Way Out.  (Which is actually missing their best funky tune Futterman's Rule yet is included on the French import release, but I digress.)

Other country editions always get extra tracks that America doesn't, never the other way around for some reason. Very annoying. At least that one is on a standard album and not some rare single. 

You buy comps of artists you're serious about? I ignore Greatest Hits/Best Of and stuff like that. I love demos / unreleased/ rarities (if I don't have the original releases) though. Like "Some Old Bullshit".

Edited July 17, 2023 by Link

[Reed Rothchild | 9,563]

46 minutes ago, Link said:

Other country editions always get extra tracks that America doesn't, never the other way around for some reason. Very annoying. At least that one is on a standard album and not some rare single. 

You buy comps of artists you're serious about? I ignore Greatest Hits/Best Of and stuff like that. I love demos / unreleased/ rarities (if I don't have the original releases) though. Like "Some Old Bullshit".

Part of it dealt with it being cheaper for some countries (ie Japan) to import the American release. So they had to build in incentive for purchasing the local version.

[JamesRobot | 5,815]

4 hours ago, Link said:

You buy comps of artists you're serious about? I ignore Greatest Hits/Best Of and stuff like that. I love demos / unreleased/ rarities (if I don't have the original releases) though. Like "Some Old Bullshit".

Yeah I used to go fairly all in on my favorite bands.  Love me some live albums, B sides, and 12” extended mixes (particularly for funk and rap).  Some artists definitely have better alternate catalogs than others.  But I'm not a hardcore collector these days.  And I'm CD only.  Vinyl is too big to really hoard properly.  And way too expensive these days.

[JamesRobot | 5,815]

Also really dig this in-between track on Hello Nasty.  

 

[Soma | 73]

Hello Nasty is a masterpiece of modern music.

[Estil | 1,265]

Back in my college days (early 2000s) I thought this video was really super gay...

Wow, has it really been 20 years?  This isn't even them in their prime and already this might count as a golden oldie!