Developer following a huge stinker with a classic

[mbd39 | 2,029]

What are the biggest turnarounds in video game history? Like the makers of Bubsy 3D following that up with Syphon Filter.

 

[Tulpa | 3,534]

Miyamoto's first game was Radar Scope, which is a shooter that's pretty derivative of Galaxian. It was a minor success in Japan, but flopped so hard in the US it nearly sent NOA under. The cabinets were refitted to create Donkey Kong.

Ion Storm flopped hard with Daikatana, but their Austin branch managed to create Deus Ex, which was much better received. Ultimately didn't save the company, though.

 

[G-type | 2,521]

It's definitely more common for the flop to come after the hit, because it will often be the end of them

[Reed Rothchild | 9,583]

[DefaultGen | 5,429]

People still play 20 different versions of Street Fighter II decades later but no one ever even whispers Street Fighter 1's name. 

[Sumez | 2,993]

JoyMasher went straight from creating Oniken and Odallus (shitty and buggy games but with their heart in the right place) to the modern run n gun masterpiece Blazing Chrome! 

[G-type | 2,521]

Five Nights at Freddy's was made after everyone mocked the characters in the developer's previous game "Chipper & Sons Lumber Co." for looking like "creepy animatronics"

[RH | 4,966]

Here's a question-- is there a franchise that started this way.  Street Fighter was a great example.  I can't think of another one at the moment, but in the recesses of my brain, I feel like there's at least  one or two other series that started with either a "meh" or a bust, but took off with the second game.

I'm not sure it counts but Duke Nukem 1 & 2 &  3, at least to me, were known for there shareware level.  Did any of you guys buy the full versions of those games?  I won't say they were bad, but I always felt they were simply good, shareware distractions.  And then Duke Nukem 3D dropped and I felt it perfected what was 3D FPS at that time.  It's not the same as what we're discussing, but I'd say it made quite a leap.  It would have been a 10 of 10 to me back then, where Duke Nukem 1 and might have gotten a rating of a 4-5 in my book.

Edited January 16, 2023 by RH

[Reed Rothchild | 9,583]

13 minutes ago, RH said:

 I'm not sure it counts but Duke Nukem 2 &  3, at least to me, were known for there shareware level.  Did any of you guys buy the full versions of those games?  I won't say they were bad, but I always felt they were simply good, shareware distractions.  And then Duke Nukem 3D dropped and I felt it perfected what was 3D FPS at that time.  It's not the same as what we're discussing, but I'd say it made quite a leap.  It would have been a 10 of 10 to me back then, where Duke Nukem 1 and might have gotten a rating of a 4-5 in my book.

I had the full version of 1, and the shareware of 2 and 3.  Didn't get the full version of 3 until PC Gamer included it one issue.  Still have never played the rest of 2.

[G-type | 2,521]

3 minutes ago, RH said:

I'm not sure it counts but Duke Nukem 2 &  3, at least to me, were known for there shareware level.  Did any of you guys buy the full versions of those games? 

I definitely had and loved the full versions of all of those Apogee games. Duke Nukem, Commander Keen, Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure, Bio Menace, Monster Bash. 

As a kid with a PC, but no console game system... This was the closest I could get to NES style games at the time.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,583]

15 minutes ago, RH said:

Here's a question-- is there a franchise that started this way.  Street Fighter was a great example.  I can't think of another one at the moment, but in the recesses of my brain, I feel like there's at least  one or two other series that started with either a "meh" or a bust, but took off with the second game

Many people would say Assassin's Creed.

[Tanooki | 4,950]

Duke Nukem 1 and 2 perhaps, 3?  3 was 3D, though technically there was a 3 on GBC which is pretty great but that came after 3D.  And no I wouldn't agree, not entirely, #1 was a bit rough but it never was a poor game with a stinker setup, but they put so much better effort into #2 it's far easier to forget.

[MagusSmurf | 577]

Probably Hitman? Never played that series though.

[RH | 4,966]

3 minutes ago, MagusSmurf said:

Probably Hitman? Never played that series though.

Is this the consensus?  I didn't play the original one but I did watch a friend play it while I was in college.  It looked good to me.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,583]

Just now, RH said:

Is this the consensus?  I didn't play the original one but I did watch a friend play it while I was in college.  It looked good to me.

The reviews definitely spiked upwards with 2, which also got all of the console ports.  I never personally played the first one though.

[PekoponTAS | 171]

I'm not familiar enough with the order of most developer's release history, but if I were to respond to the question of what series started off poorly and got better later, I'd probably say Bionic Commando. The original arcade game is pretty rough, but the NES and original GB game were really good. Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 is underrated too.

The same can be said about the Ninja Gaiden series, as almost nobody cares about the original arcade game.

Edited January 3, 2023 by PekoponTAS

[Sumez | 2,993]

Hitman was a massive success from the first game. Not sure what to think of it, I don't really enjoy that sort of games anyway, but it was definitely a big deal.

2 hours ago, PekoponTAS said:

The same can be said about the Ninja Gaiden series, as almost nobody cares about the original arcade game.

It's not very popular, but it's still a pretty good game

 

[Sumez | 2,993]

5 hours ago, RH said:

Here's a question-- is there a franchise that started this way.

The first Bomberman had the right idea, but it's super awkward and not fun to play. Not surprising for 1983.

[wongojack | 221]

6 hours ago, RH said:

Here's a question-- is there a franchise that started this way.  Street Fighter was a great example.  I can't think of another one at the moment, but in the recesses of my brain, I feel like there's at least  one or two other series that started with either a "meh" or a bust, but took off with the second game.

I'm not sure it counts but Duke Nukem 2 &  3, at least to me, were known for there shareware level.  Did any of you guys buy the full versions of those games?  I won't say they were bad, but I always felt they were simply good, shareware distractions.  And then Duke Nukem 3D dropped and I felt it perfected what was 3D FPS at that time.  It's not the same as what we're discussing, but I'd say it made quite a leap.  It would have been a 10 of 10 to me back then, where Duke Nukem 1 and might have gotten a rating of a 4-5 in my book.

Uncharted was kinda like this.  While Uncharted was a success, if they had never made Uncharted 2, there is no way that franchise would be known the way it is.

I started thinking about game studios and oftentimes the second game a studio produces is a hit.  Bullfrog games comes to mind.  Their first game is forgotten, but their second game was Populous which was simply massive.  Insomniac is this way too.  Their first game was called Disruptor, but their second game was Spyro the Dragon.  In both cases, the first game was not necessarily a flop, but what followed it was so massive that it fits the thread.  In fact, Naughty Dog (makers of Uncharted) kinda did this too.  Their first games were sorta forgettable (Rings of Power and Way of the Warrior), but then they made Crash Bandicoot!

[Tanooki | 4,950]

On that Bomberman thing, let's keep it more simple than the even earlier one, stick to the NES/Famicom.

Bomberman vs Bomberman 2

One is just overly basic, rough, not much there, just the basics, and he looks pretty junky too.  The sequel though, very well drawn visuals, most of the staple moves and tricks the series is known for carried from that game too, audio has a serious upgrade, also introduced a bit of a story to the franchise it has rolled with doing since too.

[Sumez | 2,993]

6 hours ago, Tanooki said:

On that Bomberman thing, let's keep it more simple than the even earlier one, stick to the NES/Famicom.

Bomberman vs Bomberman 2

Sure, but it was in response ot the thing about the franchise's start, and the first NES game was the third game in the series  It's also a much more competent and playable game, but I agree it's way too basic.

I also think if you compare Bomberman and Bomberman 2 on NES, you have to at least consider that three other Bomberman games were released inbetween those two, all of them better than both of them.
In fact I thought Bomberman 2 was pretty weird in how barebones it is. It doesn't introduce any of the things you're alluding to, since those are all carried over from the first PC Engine game - yet they didn't include any boss fights or stage gimmicks, so it feels like a pretty big step back given the time it came out. They also somehow managed to screw up the controls despite absolutely perfecting that on PC Engine.
Overall it feels more like a vague update to the first NES game, and was quite a disappointment to me. Bomberman '93 was the next major installment trying to move the series forward.

[mbd39 | 2,029]

17 hours ago, Sumez said:

The first Bomberman had the right idea, but it's super awkward and not fun to play. Not surprising for 1983.

I don't like the first Bomberman on NES either. Too rudimentary, tedious and every level looks the same with the exact same ugly gray and green. Bomberman 2 was a big improvement.

 

[cj_robot | 546]

FromSoftware had a whole decade worth of games with mediocre reviews, and then they release Demon's Souls and they're instantly a household name.

[Sumez | 2,993]

2 hours ago, cj_robot said:

FromSoftware had a whole decade worth of games with mediocre reviews, and then they release Demon's Souls and they're instantly a household name.

Some of their earliest games were still great though. Janky? sure. But the King's Field games are fantastic IMO, and even though I'm not a big Armored Core fan, that series has a pretty religious following!

[Gloves | 11,829]

Dark Souls took From to household name levels. Demon's Souls being trapped on PS3 limited its reach, unfortunately.