Game Debate #125: Super Metroid

[fcgamer | 4,753]

1 hour ago, Sumez said:

I care less about the game getting low ratings than I care about people missing out on what could potentially be a very enjoyable experience

The same could be said for all games though. I knew a guy who absolutely loved Waixing's Shock, and I even played through it myself at his request for the sake of checking something out for him. I hated every moment of it, the shoddy controls, etc. Similarly, I genuinely enjoy Tiles of Fate, though many people would dismiss it as shit.

I don't think anyone is going to miss out on Super Metroid based on one of these polls. Games such as it, SOTN, FFVII, SMB3, etc. are popular and well-known that anyone who is interested likely will give the game a go.

[mbd39 | 2,029]

The vast majority of votes for this game are 9 and 10. Only a couple people gave it a bad rating. It's almost unanimously regarded as great.

 

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,580]

It's fine.  They're just doing their piece to keep Link to the Past and Chrono Trigger in the top 2 spots 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,580]

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

I can never get into Metroid. I’ve tried to play the nes and snes games multiple times, trying to give the games a “fair shake”. They hold such clout. I feel like I should appreciate them. Everytime I try I get like 10-15 minutes in and say “nah hell nah”.

i can’t say they are bad games they are just really boring imo.

Edited November 1, 2022 by docile tapeworm

[mbd39 | 2,029]

3 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

I can never get into Metroid. I’ve tried to play the nes and snes games multiple times, trying to give the games a “fair shake”. They hold such clout. I feel like I should appreciate them. Everytime I try I get like 10-15 minutes in and say “nah hell nah”.

i can’t say they are bad games they are just really boring imo.

This is how I felt about Symphony of the Night and most non-linear games, but I love Super Metroid for some reason.

 

[PII | 1,897]

1 hour ago, docile tapeworm said:

I can never get into Metroid. I’ve tried to play the nes and snes games multiple times, trying to give the games a “fair shake”. They hold such clout. I feel like I should appreciate them. Everytime I try I get like 10-15 minutes in and say “nah hell nah”.

i can’t say they are bad games they are just really boring imo.

Same here.  Haven't played Super Metroid yet, probably will at some point, but I haven't even played through Metroid yet because of the boredom factor.  The worst part is that when you die it starts you off with something like 15% of your life bar which more than likely gets you no further than another quick death, so you've gotta waste time farming energy.  It's been a while since I've done this but I recall it taking like ten minutes or more to do this since the drop rate sucks and the enemies are successful enough in their attacks to undue every other bit of progress that's made.  Success just means getting to jump up the same platforms over and over, dealing with the same enemies over and over; talk about boring... I remember the game getting a little more interesting once I'd gotten a bit further into it, but there is always that most annoying choice after every death.  Do I just go for it and probably die quick, or spend another ten minutes trying to farm energy yet again?  

I thought I had the solution at one point and grabbed the ol game genie, something I very rarely use, figuring I could look up a code to "start with a full life bar", but nope; every code imaginable.  But no "start with a full life bar" to get this thing off to the races.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get back to it some day and will probably like it once I can git gud.  But I figure I'll just have to treat it like Ghosts N Goblins when I was a beginner at that = just don't get hit, no matter what.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

@mbd39 @PII great now bea is gonna make us speed run Metroid.

[PII | 1,897]

1 minute ago, docile tapeworm said:

@mbd39 @PII great now bea is gonna make us speed run Metroid.

Oh jeez.  'N I thought having to speed run DDII on one life was rough....!

[mbd39 | 2,029]

10 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

@mbd39 @PII great now bea is gonna make us speed run Metroid.

I think we should have to speedrun Marble Madness.

[PII | 1,897]

1 minute ago, mbd39 said:

I think we should have to speedrun Marble Madness.

I have always thought of it as a Racing Game.

[mbd39 | 2,029]

3 minutes ago, PII said:

I have always thought of it as a Racing Game.

Yeah it's racing with marbles. There's a timer and everything.

[wongojack | 220]

8 hours ago, PII said:

Same here.  Haven't played Super Metroid yet, probably will at some point, but I haven't even played through Metroid yet because of the boredom factor.  The worst part is that when you die it starts you off with something like 15% of your life bar which more than likely gets you no further than another quick death, so you've gotta waste time farming energy.  It's been a while since I've done this but I recall it taking like ten minutes or more to do this since the drop rate sucks and the enemies are successful enough in their attacks to undue every other bit of progress that's made.  Success just means getting to jump up the same platforms over and over, dealing with the same enemies over and over; talk about boring... I remember the game getting a little more interesting once I'd gotten a bit further into it, but there is always that most annoying choice after every death.  Do I just go for it and probably die quick, or spend another ten minutes trying to farm energy yet again?  

I thought I had the solution at one point and grabbed the ol game genie, something I very rarely use, figuring I could look up a code to "start with a full life bar", but nope; every code imaginable.  But no "start with a full life bar" to get this thing off to the races.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get back to it some day and will probably like it once I can git gud.  But I figure I'll just have to treat it like Ghosts N Goblins when I was a beginner at that = just don't get hit, no matter what.

Play with save states - problem solved.

[OptOut | 8,892]

43 minutes ago, wongojack said:

Play with save states - problem solved.

Kinda defeats the point of the game if you have to cheat to make it good though?

I agree, the original Metroid is a critically flawed game due to the "no health respawn" thing. It's a shame, because otherwise it would actually be pretty good.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

10 hours ago, PII said:

Same here.  Haven't played Super Metroid yet, probably will at some point, but I haven't even played through Metroid yet because of the boredom factor.  The worst part is that when you die it starts you off with something like 15% of your life bar which more than likely gets you no further than another quick death, so you've gotta waste time farming energy.  It's been a while since I've done this but I recall it taking like ten minutes or more to do this since the drop rate sucks and the enemies are successful enough in their attacks to undue every other bit of progress that's made.  Success just means getting to jump up the same platforms over and over, dealing with the same enemies over and over; talk about boring... I remember the game getting a little more interesting once I'd gotten a bit further into it, but there is always that most annoying choice after every death.  Do I just go for it and probably die quick, or spend another ten minutes trying to farm energy yet again?  

I thought I had the solution at one point and grabbed the ol game genie, something I very rarely use, figuring I could look up a code to "start with a full life bar", but nope; every code imaginable.  But no "start with a full life bar" to get this thing off to the races.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get back to it some day and will probably like it once I can git gud.  But I figure I'll just have to treat it like Ghosts N Goblins when I was a beginner at that = just don't get hit, no matter what.

All of these points are valid for the original NES Metroid, but the SNES Super Metroid fixed pretty much all of the so-called "issues" the first game has with a ton of quality of life improvements.  There are save checkpoints everywhere and missile and health refills scattered about all over the place.  And with a map that has much of the game already laid out, if anything, Super Metroid is contrary to the original intent of the NES game by giving you too much help.

The original NES game is supposed to make you feel lost and "alone in the dark," so to speak, on a strange planet with possible death lurking behind every corner and through every door.  Super Metroid, on the other hand, rarely has any tension at all since you can't really die for most of the game, yet it still manages to keep the same atmosphere as the original in spite of the fact that it has removed all of the "I could die at any moment" tension.

It sounds like the NES Metroid is definitely not for you, but Super Metroid is an excellent game, notwithstanding one little pit that forces you to learn a rather difficult wall jump move to escape...

Anyway, Super Metroid is a very rare example of a SNES sequel being better than it's NES counterpart, so an easy 10/10 for me.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Dr. Morbis

[Brickman | 4,013]

10 hours ago, PII said:

Same here.  Haven't played Super Metroid yet, probably will at some point, but I haven't even played through Metroid yet because of the boredom factor.  The worst part is that when you die it starts you off with something like 15% of your life bar which more than likely gets you no further than another quick death, so you've gotta waste time farming energy.  It's been a while since I've done this but I recall it taking like ten minutes or more to do this since the drop rate sucks and the enemies are successful enough in their attacks to undue every other bit of progress that's made.  Success just means getting to jump up the same platforms over and over, dealing with the same enemies over and over; talk about boring... I remember the game getting a little more interesting once I'd gotten a bit further into it, but there is always that most annoying choice after every death.  Do I just go for it and probably die quick, or spend another ten minutes trying to farm energy yet again?  

I thought I had the solution at one point and grabbed the ol game genie, something I very rarely use, figuring I could look up a code to "start with a full life bar", but nope; every code imaginable.  But no "start with a full life bar" to get this thing off to the races.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get back to it some day and will probably like it once I can git gud.  But I figure I'll just have to treat it like Ghosts N Goblins when I was a beginner at that = just don't get hit, no matter what.

Zero Mission on the GBA resolved these issues. It’s definitely the better way to play Metroid imo. It turned a frustrating and mundane game into an interesting and fun game.

[PII | 1,897]

58 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

It sounds like the NES Metroid is definitely not for you, but Super Metroid is an excellent game

I'm sure I'll play 'em both at some point.  The first is just a matter of practicing to git gud so I don't have to have the game on hold every 5 minutes to spend 10 minutes farming.

And save states can be useful for practicing a certain thing in a game over and over, but the idea of playing through a game with save states isn't playing through a game as far as I'm concerned.

[Lynda Monica | 350]

I like the first two Metroid games better, but Super Metroid is well regarded because most people really like it. There are things about it that really turn me off of it compared to the first two, but I understand that Super Metroid is popular. Not liking popular things tends to leave you out of the loop, so I've never understood where the whole "being contrarian is cool" argument comes from. I just find the first two a lot more interesting and challenging.

Now continue being fans of the thing you love, and don't let me get ya down.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Lynda Monica

[Sumez | 2,992]

3 hours ago, OptOut said:

Kinda defeats the point of the game if you have to cheat to make it good though?

Yeah, I'm not saying there's not plenty of games that are more fun if you use "cheat" features, but if that's the case, that's the fault of the game, and a rating of it should reflect that.
Of course there's also situations where it's maybe "too easy" to resort to comfortable features that you're used to by default without even realising that you're actually making the game less fun.

I can't really imagine "needing" savestates in Super Metroid where save points are already frequent, but yes the original Metroid absolutely does have an issue with the health farming thing.
And of course every game would benefit from a suspend feature, but that's a whole different thing.

[fcgamer | 4,753]

7 hours ago, OptOut said:

Kinda defeats the point of the game if you have to cheat to make it good though?

I agree, the original Metroid is a critically flawed game due to the "no health respawn" thing. It's a shame, because otherwise it would actually be pretty good.

Get gud.

You don't spawn with super powers in Mario either, bud, not in many shrimps.

[wongojack | 220]

11 hours ago, PII said:

I'm sure I'll play 'em both at some point.  The first is just a matter of practicing to git gud so I don't have to have the game on hold every 5 minutes to spend 10 minutes farming.

And save states can be useful for practicing a certain thing in a game over and over, but the idea of playing through a game with save states isn't playing through a game as far as I'm concerned.

I'm the one who suggested save states.  I did it in response to your anecdote about using Game Genie.  I don't see much difference between a cheat code that lets you "start with a full life bar" and a save state, but maybe I'm insane.

[PII | 1,897]

21 minutes ago, wongojack said:

I'm the one who suggested save states.  I did it in response to your anecdote about using Game Genie.  I don't see much difference between a cheat code that lets you "start with a full life bar" and a save state, but maybe I'm insane.

At the time I was looking to use the Gg to try and correct what I felt was a poor factor in the programing (how bout half a life bar?) in order to alleviate, again what I felt, was an unusual degree of "time-consuming-beginning- the-game-boredom", which is technically cheating, but not quite the same thing as using a save state every ten seconds.  The former is a tweak.  The latter is a challenge demolishing game wrecker.  It wasn't so much that I wanted the game to be easier, per say; I just wanted to eliminate the need for endless farming so I could get on with actually playing the game.  Imagine popping in Dragon Warrior or something similar and having to farm gold and exp. for an hour or two before being able to buy a weapon, advance a stat level, or do pretty much anything.  I'd rather the program were simply, 3 hits yer dead even though that seems excessive for a game of Metroid's size and scope, because at least that way I know where I stand and there's no temptation to stand around farming.

Anyway, I don't think you're insane.  Using save states wasn't bad advice to toss out there, just not how I was looking to go about things.  

With all this Metroid talk it'll be tough for me to forget about it anyway, so maybe the time to simply Git Gud will soon be at hand.   

[Lynda Monica | 350]

When I was first learning how to play the original Metroid, I didn't exactly continue the game if I died. I tended to just think of it as a game over, as the best way to regain health is to survive long enough to make it to the next energy tank. You might have a better time with the original Metroid if you play it with that mindset. Once I got good at the game I would always skip one of the early energy tanks, and pick it up on the way to fight Mother Brain so I'd be at full health.

Also missiles are your friends. They aren't just for doors in the first game, and you're best off making a lot of use of them while walking around. You tend to get more missile drops if you kill enemies with missiles, so there's really not much downside in spamming them when you have them. Also things get a lot easier once you get the Ice Beam, as you can neutralize enemies without having to kill them. That keeps them frozen on screen so more don't spawn in their place.

Metroid is kind of similar to Kid Icarus in that the early game is pretty tough, but it becomes easier once you start getting upgrades.

Maybe the next game debate should be the original Metroid, if it hasn't been done already.

[Renmauzo | 1,205]

I always find myself conflicted with Super Metroid. The atmosphere is fantastic, from the graphical choices to the music and boss design, but I don't love the gameplay (which I tend to find imprecise and frustrating at times) and feel that some areas overstay their welcome.

I can understand why the game is a favourite for many, but just can't seem to feel the same way no matter how many times I've tried going back to the game over the years; I was relieved to finally beat Super Metroid last year with my younger brother riding shotgun since it's his favourite game of all time, and made for a nice memory with the game for me. While not a popular opinion, I prefer - and really like - Fusion. 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,580]

14 minutes ago, Lynda Monica said:

Maybe the next game debate should be the original Metroid, if it hasn't been done already