Lynda's Totally Unauthorized Game Debate: Do You Actually Miss Konami?

[Lynda Monica | 350]

Sorry to copy the game debate idea, but there's a question I've been wanting to ask on here for a while. I promise I'll only do it this once.

When factoring in all of Konami's legacy, do you actually miss them in the current market?

Konami made some of the greatest 8bit games of all time between the NES and Game Boy, and were very good on the SNES and Genesis as well. Beyond that Konami relied heavily on the Metal Gear, Silent Hill, Yu-Gi-Oh, Castlevania, and Dance Dance Revolution series, with some originals and sequels to other series thrown in there.

If you were to ask me personally, I don't miss Konami at all. I was never interested in the Metal Gear Solid series, as it's one of the series I would label as a "boy game". Tough dudes killing everything in sight isn't my kind of fun, and overblown stories are bothersome too.

Silent Hill as a series fell apart after Shattered Memories, and if you weren't convinced that Castlevania was dead when Portrait of Ruin came out, the Lords of Shadows trilogy probably did you in. The music genre had essentially faded away, making Dance Dance and Pop'n Music things of the past, Survival Kids/Lost in Blue ended in 2008, Elebits only ever had two games, (and a mobile one) Gradius fell off the face of the galaxy, and Contra hadn't existed since re-birth on WiiWare.

Towards the end of Konami's constant presence in the market, they basically depended on Metal Gear to make any money at all. I think escaping the video game market was probably the smartest thing they could have done to stay in business, and the only things that people seem to be angry about losing are Metal Gear and Silent Hill.

I wanted to ask this question as it seems to come up whenever Konami is mentioned, but I have to wonder how many people actually care? Konami couldn't stop making bad decisions during the 2000s, so I've been wondering what potential people thought the company still had.

Now obviously I'm leaning heavily towards the idea that they did the right thing, but I made this thread to hear what other people think. Search yourself and really think about if you miss Konami or not. I'd love to know!

[Tanooki | 4,934]

I miss them as what they've largely done in the post DS market has been pretty terrible with a few slim notable exceptions.  They gave up and took their tiny balls and went home to play pachinko largely instead wasting quality franchises on gaming gambling parlor stuff.  That said, they weren't largely awesome in the 2000s either leading into it outside of a little bit on the DS and GBA before that.  The quality and quantity both took a nose dive.

 

Yet, had the quality and variety had kept up as it did in the 80s, 90s, early 00s then sure I'd put them at my #1 most missed.  Right now they seem fine with an occasional bomberman, the pce mini stuff, whoring their good name to pachinko bs, and re-releasing old stuff living on when they didn't blow.

[Lynda Monica | 350]

35 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Yet, had the quality and variety had kept up as it did in the 80s, 90s, early 00s then sure I'd put them at my #1 most missed. 

This is the part I'm really curious about though on this forum. The reality of things is that Konami DIDN'T keep up their old stream of quality, and the company had little to no direction in the late 2000s. So ignoring what they once were and looking strictly at what they were when they abandoned the market, and assuming that level of quality was just going to continue, do you actually care that the company left? Silent Hills showed promise, but it was a single game.

 

[Ankos | 439]

1 minute ago, Multiplat Cat said:

I was never in to Metal Gear at all.

What I honestly miss about Konami is their more obscure franchises like Sparkster/Rocket Knight Adventures, Azure Dreams (which was better on GBC), Survival Kids, and some of the Japanese franchises I loved like Parodius, Twinbee, and Goemon. What they need to do is sell these IPs to a game developer who actually cares, that deals in reboots of retro games in actual retro-style, like with Sonic Mania or other 2D reboots of classic franchises. There are so many other good Konami series besides Metal Gear, but like it is with Sega and Sonic, Konami chooses to milk MG for all its worth and ignore everything else with potential. Unfortunately, I must concede that only hardcore gamers who've done their homework and searched out the gems know of the stuff I'm talking about, but there's always hope for a revival.

I'd be down to see them license out a game or two to a company like Inti Creates. I don't think it would matter to me if they actually sold the rights, but still, I'd like to see them put to good use. They already allowed the PCE Mini to happen and seem like they are down to rerelease some old games from the Castlevania series and even did that sequel to Getsu Fuma Den, so maybe the dream of Konami doing more cool stuff with their old IPs is still going. I'm not someone who has played a ton of Konami games so I don't think I can truthfully say I miss them, but I would like to see them make a resurgence (or just rerelease more stuff since they own the rights to a ton of games)

[Brickman | 3,986]

2 hours ago, Lynda Monica said:

Tough dudes killing everything in sight isn't my kind of fun, and overblown stories are bothersome too.

MGS isn’t about tough dudes killing everything in sight. The point is to be stealthy and go unseen. So basically the opposite of killing everything in sight. The overblown story I’ll agree with though. Some love it some hate it.

I also disagree with your take on Lord of Shadows but I get why some may hate it. I like that they gave it a god of war type spin to it. It mixed up what was a pretty stale franchise by that point.

We also had PT that was an awesome demo that probably would have been a great game if Konami hadn’t turned to crap. Luckily Capcom got inspired by it for the RE franchise.

I miss Konami and all their smaller franchises. They were a fantastic developer and it’s a shame that they have been turned into what they are now.

They sort of started to go downhil during the PS3/3DS era for me. The PS2/DS era was still really strong imo.

[fox | 1,667]

Of course Konami holds a special place as one of the top tier 3rd party companies in the 8-16-32bit and beyond eras.  Countless classic franchises beyond just Metal Gear.  Metal Gear is about stealth and tactics, not about a madman with a laser rifle and blood dripping from the walls.  The story was really ambitious yet subversive, and love it or hate there was nothing else like it in gaming.

But like many Japanese companies, Konami really struggled to transition into the HD era.  But so did Capcom and even Nintendo did too, and suffered during the lean years.  Konami bailed crying "console gaming is dead", and went to chase that mobile pot o gold and make gambling machines.

Edited October 9, 2022 by fox

[Tanooki | 4,934]

52 minutes ago, Lynda Monica said:

This is the part I'm really curious about though on this forum. The reality of things is that Konami DIDN'T keep up their old stream of quality, and the company had little to no direction in the late 2000s. So ignoring what they once were and looking strictly at what they were when they abandoned the market, and assuming that level of quality was just going to continue, do you actually care that the company left? Silent Hills showed promise, but it was a single game.

 

I was making a point.  I would rather them now be dead and buried.  It's a sad version of what they once were living off re-releases, bundle packs, and largely utter garbage since.  I mean I did get the CV package and TMNT, which are when they did good games, but I'd have been happy if they never released too.

Now had they kept following the same sad trajectory that SNK did maybe I'd be ok with it,.  SNK like Konami both around the same of failing lost of lot of their best staff, and both went towards pachinko games an shleping out a few sad package deals of a few great titles.  Konami just didn't know when to die but SNK did.  Eventually SNK was resurrected by a group of a few investors and got some of the key old best era staff back to start making some solid games, but to supplement it some dumb mobile titles too, along with peddling a LOT of their back library as straight emulated affairs via the ACA Hamster releases.  If Konami would have cratered, left to rot, then brought back some of their best minds and took the same course I'd be thrilled.  Instead they just suck.

[Lynda Monica | 350]

1 hour ago, Brickman said:

MGS isn’t about tough dudes killing everything in sight. The point is to be stealthy and go unseen. So basically the opposite of killing everything in sight. The overblown story I’ll agree with though. Some love it some hate it.

In the gameplay stealth is encouraged, but not at all required. Also in the cutscenes and gameplay there's a lot of over the top violence. Metal Gear Revengence was also about as comically violent as a game could get, so I don't agree that the series didn't revel in over the top violence. Perhaps my phrasing was a bit off though.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Lynda Monica

[Reed Rothchild | 9,532]

Yes.  We should be excited for Contra, Castlevania, Silent Hill, Metal Gear, Gradius, and Goemon games that are coming up for the Switch and PS5.  The fact that they are unwilling and incapable is just an unfortunate reality.

I mean, fuck, think about how awesome it would be if Konami teamed up with From Software for a Castlevania reboot.

[Ankos | 439]

56 minutes ago, Multiplat Cat said:

Didn't Konami also assume Hudson and Taito, or was that Square-Enix? The story with those two is pretty sad, but you have to accept that some designers were only really suited for a certain era and couldn't transition beyond a certain style they were good at.

Just Hudson. Square Enix got Taito

[sp1nz | 612]

Konami has some of the best IPs, so I'm naturally disappointed with the path they took. Even though they're making a lot of money, it's unfortunate that they stopped caring about their video game division. They went from an industry titan into something completely different and it's not like they couldn't have somewhat kept up with Capcom in the video game world, if they cared more. Big boss salute and rest in peace.

[phart010 | 1,707]

A bunch of people from the NES days left Konami to form Treasure. There’s always a trade off between being a big company and being a small company. The way they think about things is fundamentally different.

Big companies always start with “will it sell well?” They identify the potential market demographic for a game and then they try to formulate the game to appeal to that demographic. When you are trying to please the masses, you have to make decisions that don’t always please any one too much, but maybe they please everyone just a little. They have strong financial backing and they churn out vanilla.

Smaller companies have the freedom to formulate the game around what they want to game to be. They may just know exactly what they want to do with the game regardless of audience demographics. They risk the possibility of the game only appealing to a niche audience, but they could also get lucky and produce a hit game. Unfortunately they don’t always have strong financing, so if games don’t do good enough, they could go out of business. Or if they do real good, they can turn into a big company 

Edited October 9, 2022 by phart010

[Philosoraptor | 468]

We owe a lot to Konami for making video games what they are today, and I'm glad they're still making games, albeit fewer, today. Even though quality became spotty in the 2000s, I'd still rather them compete with and take dollars away from less palpable companies like EA. PES/eFootball is the only real major competitor to the FIFA games, and the Pro Baseball Spirits and Jikkyō/eBaseball Powerful Pro Yakyū series are basically the only games out there for Japanese pro baseball (NPB). 

Even though the Gradius and Castlevania series have enough copycats that I don't miss them as much, stuff like the Goemon franchise, Suikoden, Zone of the Enders, and Yu-Gi-Oh don't have as many quality imitators. 

Also, Konami's last fiscal year was its most profitable to date; they made about 300 billion yen, 215 billion of which came from video games, not pachinko or casino games. They're still in the video game market and have been quietly killing it with stuff like Yu-Gi-Oh Master Duel, the eSports series, and Momotaro Densetu. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Philosoraptor

[fcgamer | 4,723]

They ruined Castlevania, the later Metroidvania games are sort of like when a band changes all the members yet keeps the same name.

Don't miss them at all, actually I rarely even get excited going into game stores anymore 

[phart010 | 1,707]

6 hours ago, fcgamer said:

They ruined Castlevania, the later Metroidvania games are sort of like when a band changes all the members yet keeps the same name.

Don't miss them at all, actually I rarely even get excited going into game stores anymore 

What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets.  
But enough talk. BEAST MODE!!!

[CMR | 520]

I miss 80's and 90's Konami.

[cj_robot | 542]

Konami was an elite developer for multiple decades. Yes, I miss good Konami.

[phart010 | 1,707]

6 minutes ago, cj_robot said:

Konami was an elite developer for multiple decades. Yes, I miss good Konami.

I feel that companies like Inti Creates and WayForward are picking up from where those 90s elites left off

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

Capcom > Konami

I mainly miss Castlevania and I'd play a new Contra. And I recently got the Ninja Turtles collection, so I'm not missing TMNT.  

[fox | 1,667]

9 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

new Contra.

Blazing Chrome got your back

[Strange | 1,700]

The original Castlevania is my favorite NES game. The 16-bit Castlevanias are legendary too. The Metroid-like ones are good, but like someone else said there are substitutes. I miss classicvania a lot. I’m not super confident that modern Konami could capture that magic though.

[Tanooki | 4,934]

They can barely capture their own existence properly at this rate.  Even their big fluff projects they build semi-faulty, such as their mini pce/tg16 where if you use any adapter that's even .25 off spec, it blows the USB related caps on the motherboard frying every port on the system, so if you can't source the part it's a cute brick.  The TMNT and Castlevania bundles are just that, re-wrapped old 8/16bit games, nothing new, just a collection, amazing as they are they're products of the mid80s-90s, that's it.  One of the most neat things they've done in the last few years is the ios/android picross freebie Konami Picture Puzzle, and yeah I'm both (and not) knocking them with that comment.

As may have said, missing 80s/90s konami, what is here now we could do fine without if they'd just fail already because what they do put out plays off the past and isn't even all that well done at times.

[phart010 | 1,707]

25 minutes ago, Strange said:

The original Castlevania is my favorite NES game. The 16-bit Castlevanias are legendary too. The Metroid-like ones are good, but like someone else said there are substitutes. I miss classicvania a lot. I’m not super confident that modern Konami could capture that magic though.

Did you try the one on Wiiware? Castlevania Legends Rebirth.. That was relatively recent. And I loved it.

I think Konami still knows how to do it, and can do it if they wanted to. They just don’t think it’s worth their time

[Tanooki | 4,934]

Capcom has been pretty bad and I really wasn't even getting into those SOAC setups, that's a whole other matter.  They did some weird stuff with that SF2 and then the GnG/Commando/1942 tv games things, then the premium arcade roms $50 SF2CE taletop which actually oddly is good.

SNK though, no they really haven't unless you're taking a shot at the Mini which works great or it's fat HDMI joystick counter part as they run great.  Or do you mean the Neo Geo X?  That was the former SNK which went bankrupt rightly so after the core people who cared had already fled like rats, that was the aruze pachinko loser days.

 

Crapcom deserves that title not because of that, but because they've been twofaced for years skirting gray areas of contracts to play shitty games with console owners and game fans.  I started calling them that when they not only bailed on the Capcom5(Gamecube) but then attempted to sabotage RE4 sales due to all the RE fanboy whiners losing their shit over the exclusivity, so what they did was used social media to show a 'definitive' version where you can play as Eva Wong and told the Sony PS2 manchildren to wait like 9-10mo for the contract exclusivity to expire to get the game, which they largely did.  Real dick move, then canned that Dark Phoenix game too.  Or giving so called strong 3DS support, then bailing on it right after the circle pad came out for RERevelations.  They love to middle finger the Nintendo gamer base going on 20+ years.  That's why it stings more that Konami is a flaming wreck.

[Makar | 1,946]

Konami released yugioh legacy of the duelist 3 years ago on switch. As long as they keep pumping out yugioh games, that’s all I’ve ever cared about coming from them tbh.