Game Debate #74: Tomb Raider

[Reed Rothchild | 9,521]

[RH | 4,903]

For it's time, I give it an 8.  I had fun with this one.  It is Tank Controls (no?) or whatever they were, I knew it took some getting use too, but once you do it's a fun game.

Having a strong female protagonist harkens back to the feel Metroid, though these were totally shooter/platformers.  I don't think I've played a single game in the series after this one, but I'd kind of like to go back and revisit the series.  Definitely had a good Indiana Jones vibe, and I appreciate it.  Oh, and I definitely played this one on the PS1.  Interested in knowing if anyone else played it on other ones first.  I always felt like the PS1 version was the "definitive" one simply because it seemed to be he most popular one to own.  At least in my sphere of influence.

I still think it's worth revisiting today, but much like GoldenEye is.  You can likely enjoy it, maybe a lot, but you have to take it with a dose of "history" knowing that it's old-style controls which had yet to be semi-standardized and  you're gonna have to get over a learning curve.  But, once you get past that, I think it's a good game.  No, I've not played it in 20 years, but I'll stand by it.  I have fond memories of this one and other than Tenchu, I think this was the only other "shooter" style game I played on the PS1.

Speaking of... Tenchu go be a good one to rate.  I could be wrong, but I feel like it defined the sneaky/stealth genre.

[MagusSmurf | 577]

5/10

I tried this a few years ago, beat the first 4 levels. The graphics were bad enough that I couldn't make out what some of the things I was supposed to interact with were supposed to be which was a little annoying. Didn't really look like the plot was so going anywhere worth noting. From what I played the combat (while not all that prominent) was bad enough it seemed the game might have actually been mildly improved if it was taken out, even it was replaced with nothing. (I'm sure people back in 1996 would have complained though.)

The platforming was functional and seemed to work exactly how it was supposed to (tutorial basically required). It was just really weird and had no fluidity whatsoever. Sure, it felt way more realistic than the more cartoony 3D platformers I'm more used to but it was definitely less fun and a polygon-based game from 1996 selling itself on realism is kind of a lost cause regardless. And while how the controls worked during platforming was one thing, I remember being annoying at some aspects of basic movement and trying to face the precise right direction to interact with stuff.

I figure maybe I'd appreciate what the game was trying to do in 3D better if I played some western 2D cinematic platformers that it seemed to be taking influence from first so the game's on deep freeze until then.

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

The original Tomb Raider is one of my favorite games of all time.  I've played through it more times than I can count including a playthrough less than a year ago.  It's an easy 10 for me.  It will never get old.

I've played the 2013 Tomb Raider for about 30 minutes and I just can't get into it.  That style of Tomb Raider is just not for me.  I understand why it's popular and I understand that we will probably never see another Tomb Raider game similar to the original.  

I have sort of a love/hate relationship with the Tomb Raider Series.

• Tomb Raider I and II - Some of my favorite games of all time
• Tomb Raider III, IV & V - I just couldn't get into any of these three
• Angle of Darkness - I didn't even try
• Legend, Anniversary, Underworld - Also amazing games that I love.  Not as great as the original 2, but super fun
• Modern Trilogy - As I mentioned, just not for me
• I haven't tried the portable Game Boy games or the Laura Croft series, although I own them all  

[RH | 4,903]

22 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

The original Tomb Raider is one of my favorite games of all time.  I've played through it more times than I can count including a playthrough less than a year ago.  It's an easy 10 for me.  It will never get old.

I've played the 2013 Tomb Raider for about 30 minutes and I just can't get into it.  That style of Tomb Raider is just not for me.  I understand why it's popular and I understand that we will probably never see another Tomb Raider game similar to the original.  

I have sort of a love/hate relationship with the Tomb Raider Series.

• Tomb Raider I and II - Some of my favorite games of all time
• Tomb Raider III, IV & V - I just couldn't get into any of these three
• Angle of Darkness - I didn't even try
• Legend, Anniversary, Underworld - Also amazing games that I love.  Not as great as the original 2, but super fun
• Modern Trilogy - As I mentioned, just not for me
• I haven't tried the portable Game Boy games or the Laura Croft series, although I own them all  

Tried the mobile Runner app (.e.g it's like Temple Run)?

  It was ok for what it was, if you enjoy mobile distraction games.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

Never really cared for the original and didn't play the remake.

[TDIRunner | 2,735]

17 minutes ago, RH said:

Tried the mobile Runner app (.e.g it's like Temple Run)?

  It was ok for what it was, if you enjoy mobile distraction games.

Haven't tried it and I don't really play any mobile games anymore, but I might check it out.  

[Brickman | 3,983]

I went with two 7’s.

I feel like the original tomb raider is probably one of those games that you just had to have played when it was released. I haven’t replayed it since it was released but I could imagine the controls and graphics would be just too frustrating now.

I really enjoyed it when it was released, it had a great Indiana Jones vibe and it really inspired other games that came later.

I loved 2 the most and would give that a high 8. The third was also pretty solid and would get a high 8 from me. Those two I think I could replay and enjoy still.

I finished the modern tomb raider and remember enjoying it but it really felt like it was an uncharted clone. It didn’t really feel like anything special but not a horrible game.

 

[cj_robot | 542]

3 hours ago, Shmup said:

I finished the modern tomb raider and remember enjoying it but it really felt like it was an uncharted clone. It didn’t really feel like anything special but not a horrible game.

 

That's interesting because I always thought of Uncharted as a Tomb Raider clone.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

I went with a 7/8 for old/new.  I think a little I overrated the old one, but I feel having played it when it was new and knowing we had no idea how shit the controls really were, I'm willing to give the grade a bump up because it was the best we could hope for.  The exploration was fun, the battles worked, the control could have had some help and years learning did that, but it still was more than playable if clunky.  The character was fun (and hot for teens given all the boob raider patches, etc) and the story worked.  You could do better, but only in 2D at that point so it was solid limited peak value there.

Yet them doing a rebirth, a retcon of sorts with the early history of Lara, that game that's now almost a decade old was fantastic.  Even now it looks, sounds, plays and controls fantastic, far better than a lot of things.  The story works, you get sucked in, more so than the original, as it has a bit more meaning.  It's a great game, perfect no, and there is a bit better out there, but very easy to recommend too.  The only thing was, it clearly was an attempt to play off the good will and high buzz/love over Uncharted as it felt too much like it, which isn't a bad thing, but a rip off is still a rip off and it kind of is.  You could have thrown a younger Drake in there and it would have worked, a pre-Sully or early scrounging with Sully days there all the same.  I'd rate it higher, but it is what it is, not so much lacking personality, just too much aping to be it's own unique game too.  The old game was that too, basically Indiana Jones with boobs, this one isn't so egregious but it's up there.

[Brickman | 3,983]

2 hours ago, cj_robot said:

That's interesting because I always thought of Uncharted as a Tomb Raider clone.

I was referring to the new one. It’s like it came full circle and the new one copied some stuff that uncharted did.

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

Could never get into Tomb Raider.  I watched friends play it quite a bit though. Meh.  No interest in the new stuff either. 

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

I really liked the original tomb raider. I remember being like enchanted as a kid playing it for the first time. We rented it from block buster on the Sega Saturn. I remember how suspenseful the encounters seemed and how satisfying it was to get into the next room / area. 

I played it last year again and really liked it. Probably bc of the strong nostalgia but I have no issues with those low-polygon, early 3D games with tank controls. Maybe bc I was born into the dark, raised by the dark but either way Tomb Raider is one of those games that always reels me in. 

I haven't played any of the series after II and I'm ok with that. I think it'd be cool to play the reboot one day but I'm not going out my way to do it. 

[sp1nz | 611]

Another copy pasta to start with:

"I got PlayStation 1 for my 9th birthday in 1997; It was a complete surprise when I came home from school with a friend that day. The console was hooked up in the living room with Lara Croft proudly standing in the starting cave on the TV screen. Over the following week or two my friend visited me daily and we beat the game."

Delving more into the experience: The locations were very interesting and I appreciated how you start with basic animals as enemies but then meet extinct or fictitious enemies in the mix. Deadly traps, obscure paths and secrets create sense of oppression and discovery; the game doesn't hand the raiding to you on a plate and that's cool. To my memory there is music to accentuate certain areas while others get silence and grim ambiance, this enhances the aforementioned oppression and discovery aspects greatly. Lara Croft is a great character and it is cool that they chose a female character to lead such a pioneering 3D game too. It has tank controls but I don't mind them, as they create a sense of danger in the combat encounters alongside the limited ammunition and healing items you may scour in the areas, and the platforming is well designed for accuracy for the tank controls, if you know how to do it - like hold walk while going to an edge -> backwards hop -> start running and holding jump -> maximum distance jump often accompanied with grabbing a ledge. I've beaten the games in the original trilogy once and they're all important to me despite not playing them endlessly. I've tested one or two Tomb Raider after those but they didn't grab me, I'm still curious to play them all eventually, at least the modern variety. The original is not a game for everyone now or even back then but it will always haunt my brain in a positive way, the way successful raiding of historical artifacts from deadly massive tombs should.

So I put it as a defining game for me in the thread I linked, naturally for being the first for me on a revolutionary console, still how would I rate it... I think experiencing it back then as it was all fresh and exciting a clear 10/10, even today just thinking of these vibrant memories and how I have a great appreciation for how well the game was made and recently placing it as my GOTY 1996 (I played it in 1997 but I go by release years in this assessment), I have to say it stays a 10 for me. I think everyone should try it for historical reasons, even if they end up hating it. I'm very happy that I grew up alongside game evolution, so I don't feel like antiquated controls or design choices take away from my experiences, they're more like pockets of nostalgia and flavor and I'm very open to most flavors. Also a game doesn't require a huge replayability factor, if any, to be a true great in my eyes.

10/10

Edited November 7, 2021 by sp1nz

[Sumez | 2,949]

Both very good games, and for entirely different reasons, but none are really that great - so they both get a 7/10 from me.

The first Tomb Raider did a lot of things really well. The stiff almost "tactical" controls work kind of like a 3D version of the classic Prince of Persia, and really gives a unique angle to the exploration gameplay which was pretty novel at the time of the game's release.

At the end of the day, the game consists of just four different areas, each split off into a set of very long levels, that all feel very samey, so the game easily feels like it drags out. There's not a lot of memorable moments, with the T-rex encounter pretty much standing out as the single defining moment of the game.

Compare Tomb Raider 2 which constantly has Lara go to entirely new environments, which constantly put a fun twist to how she traverses the stages. It's such an immensely creative and satisfying game, full of memorable setpieces each of which easily outpace the TR1 t-rex. That game is absolutely fantastic, and I guess we wouldn't have had it without TR1, but it really does turn the earlier game into little more than a footnote.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Sumez

[Sumez | 2,949]

On 11/5/2021 at 3:23 PM, RH said:

Interested in knowing if anyone else played it on other ones first.  I always felt like the PS1 version was the "definitive" one simply because it seemed to be he most popular one to own.  At least in my sphere of influence.

IMO the low resolution of the PS1 versions seriously holds them back compared to the PC versions, which I'd also say remained the more popular platform for these games. They still do play very well on PlayStation however.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Sumez

[Reed Rothchild | 9,521]

I haven't actually played much of the original.  I had II and III - which I beat twice each - and the Legend/Anniversary/Underworld trilogy, and the reboot.  I highly enjoyed each and every one of them.

[wongojack | 214]

I saw that Tomb Raider had a low average in the master thread, so I came here to chime in.  My scores

• Tomb Raider '96:  9
• Tomb Raider '13:  8

The original game was what got me back into playing current gen video games.  I had basically dropped out of gaming, but Tomb Raider was so interesting as it combined a mix of action, puzzle solving and of course 3d exploration.  "Tomb Raider II" is a better and more interesting game, but the impact the original had on me (and a lot of other people) was amazing.

The reboot trilogy is also REALLY good.  I think the middle game "Rise of the Tomb Raider" is probably the best.  The story isn't that strong, but they really nailed the open world aspect which took the Assassin's Creed formula and twisted it up a bit to make something new and interesting.  I saw the comparison to Uncharted earlier in the thread.  I love Uncharted, but it was always a much more linear experience to me (until you get to that stupid Jeep section in Uncharted 4).

Anyway, I would highly recommend both of these games, but in both cases, their sequels are better in almost every way.

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by wongojack