Millions of Americans Quit Their Jobs... BUT

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/uneployment-jobless-claims-plunge-2021-11-24/#

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

A bit old, but prompted by something else i read briefly today About Unemployment being its lowest in 50 years

[Tanooki | 4,957]

Jobless claims don't mean parity to being unemployed or underemployed.  There are a lot who have just decided to say fuck work and just don't work at all or work as little as possible which would really kick the jobless claims into a historic low.  Not saying it's bad seeing that, it's nice, but taken at face value hides larger issues.

 

The unemployment rate seems to be in the low 4% range, before the virus it was around 1% lower, and at 3.5% was the lowest since Dec 1969.  It's clawing back, with more work at home opportunities now more than ever and other flexible work it's possible to get there again.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

4 hours ago, avatar! said:

Also, people with multiple-kids often have the older kids "help out" - in essence it's a bit like free babysitting/daycare and of course there's nothing wrong with that!

Yeah...only problem with that is that your oldest needs to legally be at least ~15 or so before any of that can actually happen without losing your kids to CPS.  For folks like my wife and I, having two kids means having to decide whether to have both of us working full time and maybe pulling down an extra $50-75 a month total after paying for childcare, while both missing out on most of our time with the kids, OR, having one of us not work, lose that $50-75, and actually get to watch and enjoy our kids growing up.  It would be great if things still worked the way they portray it most often on tv and how you would like it to, but it just doesn’t for the vast majority, and it’s constantly shrinking to freeze out more and more people who used to be able to enjoy that type of setup.

[avatar! | 1,841]

2 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Yeah...only problem with that is that your oldest needs to legally be at least ~15 or so before any of that can actually happen without losing your kids to CPS. 

I had to look this up!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/legal-babysitting-age-by-state

I certainly don't know all the rules, but if the above website is to be trusted, in TN for instance a child can be home alone and consequently also babysit when they are 10. Although, it may very by county or city etc.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

12 hours ago, avatar! said:

I had to look this up!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/legal-babysitting-age-by-state

I certainly don't know all the rules, but if the above website is to be trusted, in TN for instance a child can be home alone and consequently also babysit when they are 10. Although, it may very by county or city etc.

Note the asterisk by all of those ages listed except for Illinois (14, okay) and Maryland + North Carolina (8, WTF?!):  "Age listed is the recommended minimum age that a child may be left home alone in place of a required/legally specified minimum age."  So that's when you can leave a kid home alone, but not necessarily babysit.  So, if we're still in TN when my son turns 10, I could legally leave him at home without supervision, but not legally (or realistically) trust him to watch his then 6 year old sister.

As you said, the guidelines/requirements can (and often do) vary from place to place, starting at the lowest levels of local government and going all the way up to state.  My statement of ~15 was a rough average of what I recall seeing across the country when doing some deep digging on such things a few years ago when I was wondering about this sort of thing.  If you want to see some stuff that's crazy, you ought to look up some of the more detailed stuff for Virginia, where they can try to put you in jail and take away your kids for something as simple as leaving them in the car while you go inside someplace to pay for gas or quickly use the restroom (regardless of making sure the kid is safe/comfortable inside the car and not out of sight).  Tennessee actually has a law on hand while Virginia doesn't, but deep down in the weeds of the details, TN at least has provisions stating that you can leave your kid in the car, so long as you don't break line of sight (so going into a convenience store with windows to pay for gas would be ok, but going to an enclosed restroom without them isn't).

However, even if there isn't a specific law on the books (as in the example from Virginia, above), there are plenty of other statutes that can be interpreted or just outright bent or broken to screw over parents doing something that most anyone would consider normal and reasonable, and far from putting the kid(s) in danger.  In this day and age, people across the whole of the political spectrum tend to just end up making trouble for other people, especially parents, while acting like they were acting in good faith.  Even if a person who left their kid in the car for a minute or less to pay for gas doesn't get arrested, it doesn't mean they're not going to have to pay for a new window to their car after some "well meaning" bystander comes up and smashes it in the name of "safety."  (A bunch of places have enacted "good samaritan/bystander" laws to prevent people from seeking recompense from such people, even when they're clearly in the wrong.)

Edit:  Seriously, if you haven't, read the entirety of the link I provided.  The woman was somehow neglecting her kid for the 3 minutes she was gone (verified by security footage) paying for things inside, within full line of sight of the kid, but the cops weren't guilty of the same and the kid was somehow out of danger being in the exact same space for an hour and a half while the lady was being charged/harassed.

Edited December 15, 2021 by darkchylde28

[Kguillemette | 1,560]

13 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

Yeah...only problem with that is that your oldest needs to legally be at least ~15 or so before any of that can actually happen without losing your kids to CPS.  For folks like my wife and I, having two kids means having to decide whether to have both of us working full time and maybe pulling down an extra $50-75 a month total after paying for childcare, while both missing out on most of our time with the kids, OR, having one of us not work, lose that $50-75, and actually get to watch and enjoy our kids growing up.  It would be great if things still worked the way they portray it most often on tv and how you would like it to, but it just doesn’t for the vast majority, and it’s constantly shrinking to freeze out more and more people who used to be able to enjoy that type of setup.

Facts. We went with option C in our family which is work opposite shifts to avoid child care. We have the benefit of two full incomes and no child care related expenses, but that comes at the cost of family time being very infrequent as well as having little to no time for ourselves to pursue our individual hobbies and interests in addition to being an exhausting test of endurance.

Is working part time to get some spending money an option for you while your kids are in school? I know I'm thinking picking up a 10-2 second job for that reason. It's tough to get ahead out there. Unless they aren't old enough yet.

One thing I used to do before my kids were of school age was flip video game collections on eBay. It became sort of a family activity testing them out, listing them, packaging them, and printing labels for them. Made a bit of spending money as well as built up a little collection for myself.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

7 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

Is working part time to get some spending money an option for you while your kids are in school? I know I'm thinking picking up a 10-2 second job for that reason. It's tough to get ahead out there. Unless they aren't old enough yet.

One thing I used to do before my kids were of school age was flip video game collections on eBay. It became sort of a family activity testing them out, listing them, packaging them, and printing labels for them. Made a bit of spending money as well as built up a little collection for myself.

For me, no, as my little girl is only 3 and due to the way her birthday falls, it'll be at least 2 more years before the school system will allow her in for preschool.  Also, pretty much every place in our area reserves all such shifts (early, either part or full time) for people with the highest seniority, so the only thing I might be able to get away with would be overnights, but that would leave me with little to no sleep as I'd still need to watch the littlest during the day and my son after school until the wife got home.

I'm not a big fan of flipping stuff in general, but it's basically an impossibility in our area as that has been every drunk/crackhead's pastime/side hustle for 2-3 decades or more.  The day that you find any sort of actual deal on something widely desirable is one that you should go play the lottery, as I can't count the times I've shown up at a yard sale when there's barely been light, been the first and only one there, and all the good stuff was already "reserved" for somebody else (who showed up 10-20 minutes after me--still unclear on why those people sat that stuff out to begin with if that's the case).

Previously it had been just me working, as my wife had a genetic heart condition show itself during/after the birth of our second, and financial considerations aside, I/we felt it was better and safer for her to stay at home, relatively unstressed, while her heart took time to heal.  A bit over 3 years later and she's loads better than she was, and actually doing something that she loves (teaching) versus something that she hates (call center work), so I'm ok with the current/momentary paradigm shift.  The bills are paid, the kids are taken care of, and everybody gets lots of family time, so things are stable and relatively comfortable, if not necessarily cushy.

[Link | 2,760]

 

One of the more insidious myths this year was that young people didn't want to work because they were getting by just fine on government aid. People had too much money, went the narrative. 

Only trouble is, the numbers don't back it up.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/15/economy/labor-force-retirement-great-resignation/

Last month, there were 3.6 million more Americans who had left the labor force and said they didn't want a job ...Older Americans, age 55 and up, accounted for whopping 90% of that increase. 

"I think a lot of the narratives imagine prime-age workers as being missing, but it actually skews much older" ...

Americans are quitting their jobs in record numbers — more than 4 million each month since July — but much of that quitting is happening among young people who are leaving for other jobs or better pay. They're not leaving the workforce entirely. "Part of it is a job quality shortage. I can want a 65-inch TV for $50, but it doesn't mean there's a TV shortage, it means I'm not willing to pay enough to get somebody to sell me a TV."

In the service industry I know a lot of people have left for better (any) benefits, more predictable hours and pay, and less abuse from customers (or managers and co-workers, for that matter)

 

 

[avatar! | 1,841]

2 hours ago, Link said:

In the service industry I know a lot of people have left for better (any) benefits, more predictable hours and pay, and less abuse from customers (or managers and co-workers, for that matter)

I'm waiting for the same thing to happen with teachers. I can't think of another sector that has provided dedicated people such poor income, while telling them to "just deal" with any abusive parents and kids (obviously most parents and kids are not abusive, but I've seen first-hand students abuse high school teachers and the teachers tell me they are not allowed to do anything about it), not to mention having to deal with bureaucracy and incompetent administrators....

and yet many people seem to think "hey, you signed up for this!"
NOPE. Teachers sign up to teach and help students, to be mentors and guides.

The Great American Teacher Exodus

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/12/schools-shortages-pay-conditions-stress-covid-19

Before COVID-19, paltry salaries were supplemented by powerful nonpecuniary rewards, like the pride teachers feel when facing a classroom of smiling students eagerly engaged in dialogue. Social distancing, remote learning, and innumerable added stressors upon reopening have made it much harder to feel those rewards. All of this is compounded by the fact that educators are risking their health to teach in person, using up their sick days to quarantine, and often feeling that the leaders in charge of their working conditions do not value their safety.

[Tanooki | 4,957]

10 hours ago, Link said:

In the service industry I know a lot of people have left for better (any) benefits, more predictable hours and pay, and less abuse from customers (or managers and co-workers, for that matter)

I can't speak to the cnn news piece, but that last part I left intact.  I put the work in because of the gross underemployment of my wife for a large part of nearly a decade.  I've explained the help we got before just to stay in the house for years, not repeating it.  I got my director(spot under VP) at work before the virus help in making a badass resume for her, then late spring starting hitting up my employers site and indeed, and got her an interview at my place which ultimately got her hired in August.  She was part time service at the pilot catering store for chick fil a for the country, yet they under paid her despite upping their starting pay and had her at 10-15hrs a week...this netted well under 10K a year, post tax far worse... now she's 40hrs and making about 38K with set hours, set schedule, great benefits, optional overtime even, no a-hole customers, and nice managers(my workplace is one of the highest if not the highest in the industry for employee care/treatment, what some would call wokeness across the board (diversity, inclusive, etc.) too.  So add that to another who bailed on garbage to do better, far better.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

On 12/7/2021 at 7:48 PM, Andy_Bogomil said:

some of the stuff that I see from r/antiwork is kinda funny too. I thought the subreddit was about workers rights etc. but it seems like there's a lot of users over there who want to have all the comforts of life without doing anything themselves.

That interview with Fox by the mod from r/antiwork was fucking rough. Looks like the sub is shut down as a result. 

[Tanooki | 4,957]

3 hours ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

That interview with Fox by the mod from r/antiwork was fucking rough. Looks like the sub is shut down as a result. 

Do tell... you got me interested.  What happened or what interview can you link?

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Do tell... you got me interested.  What happened or what interview can you link?

Sorry a little busy but this thread I think should fill u in. 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/sdesxw/megathread_rantiwork_goes_private_after_fox_news/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

6 hours ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

That interview with Fox by the mod from r/antiwork was fucking rough. Looks like the sub is shut down as a result. 

Yeah, apparently the people running it were about as socially graceful as the current owner who did the interview.

For those who haven't seen it or won't watch it anyway, the Fox guy was being...well, a Fox guy--condescending, not really trying to understand what the other person was about but instead trying to figure out how to make them look as ridiculous as possible so as to "prove" the narrative that Fox had already decide its viewers should believe that day.  The Reddit Mod was cleary socially awkward, and clearly much more a mod of the channel (even as the current owner) versus any sort of deep contributor, as when pressed about what it was about they started off decently about how people were wanting to be exploited less by companies and be on the clock less total hours for the same total output per week, then kind of stammered here and there about only wanting to work 25 hours a week for a full week's pay, how they were a dog walker and were cool with keeping doing that, but then jumped to wanting to teach philosophy when pressed by an ambush-journalism-happy Fox host.  They also are a really easy, unfortunate target for rednecks because they're either an unfortunately named man (Doreen), a woman who mostly appears to be male speaking with a male voice, or a seemingly pre-everything trans person who doesn't make any of this clear during the interview.

It's not nearly as bad as the threads I saw when I googled around looking for it myself earlier, but it's far from a great piece of journalism--either on the part of the Fox host only prepared to discredit the person they're interviewing to serve their own agenda or the unprepared, socially awkward interviewee who seemed to legitimately try but didn't really give any solid answers in regard to what r/antiwork is actually, currently about.

r/antiwork didn't take it at all well, though, and basically melted down and locked the door when they started censoring every post asking and talking about the interview and people started calling them on it.  Bad look on a community most likely caused "single" handedly by the small group of mods with the keys to the castle versus any of the true movers or shakers within that community.

[Kguillemette | 1,560]

I recently read an article about an ICU nurse who quit due to burnout, low pay, and lack of supplies. Now, the article didn't mention what he's up to now, but my money is on traveling nurse. The money is through the roof, the stress level is low, and the flexibility is unmatched. Hospitals historically don't pay nurses well in comparison to long term care facilities. Of course, being a hospital nurse carries a sense of prestige among nurses, especially skile led nurses. Someone you meet for years first time may ask you what you do. When you answer nurse, it's "what hospital is it?" So hospitals have stacks of applications and lower their pay accordingly to demand. But now it is becoming known that working in the hospital sucks right now, plus you can literally double your pay by quitting and signing up for a staffing agency to become a traveling nurse. You can work a shift in that same hospital for twice or triple the money for a smaller role and less liability. Or a non skilled facility where you just make assessments and follow doctor orders for twice your hospital pay via the same agency. I'm curious how the health care portion of "the great resignation" will play out.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Kguillemette
Grammar. Phone struggles..

[final fight cd | 187]

16 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

I recently read an article about an ICU nurse who quit due to burnout, low pay, and lack of supplies. Now, the article didn't mention what he's up to now, but my money is on traveling nurse. The money is through the roof, the stress level is low, and the flexibility is unmatched. Hospitals historically don't pay nurses well in comparison to long term care facilities. Of course, being a hospital nurse carries a sense of prestige among nurses, especially skile led nurses. Someone you meet for years first time may ask you what you do. When you answer nurse, it's "what hospital is it?" So hospitals have stacks of applications and lower their pay accordingly to demand. But now it is becoming known that working in the hospital sucks right now, plus you can literally double your pay by quitting and signing up for a staffing agency to become a traveling nurse. You can work a shift in that same hospital for twice or triple the money for a smaller role and less liability. Or a non skilled facility where you just make assessments and follow doctor orders for twice your hospital pay via the same agency. I'm curious how the health care portion of "the great resignation" will play out.

I was an RN. And quit. Though my quitting had nothing to do with Covid. It’s just a an awful professional. Period. 

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,021]

I read that we're getting close to full employment but only 86% of the jobs lost in 2020 have returned. 

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,063]

9 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

I read that we're getting close to full employment but only 86% of the jobs lost in 2020 have returned. 

I tend not to believe any reports on jobs lost/gained/saved anymore. Those numbers are so easily manipulated that they’re meaningless. 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

So, my brother in law, who is fully vaccinated, managed to catch COVID (most likely due to his office not requiring masks, social distancing, etc.).  Whole family was supposed to be quarantined for 8 days due to this, although my sister in law (who is not vaccinated) tested negative.  No idea about my niece and nephew, other than they're also not vaccinated, as nobody mentioned whether they were tested or not; both are apparently home from school, though.  Well, couple of days go by, and now my sister in law is testing positive as well.  Is she staying home, in quarantine, as she's supposed to?  Nope!  Since she's an x-ray tech, the hospital group she works for is requiring her to come in and work, even though it's possible she'll pass it on to coworkers, patients, etc.  They apparently didn't even give her the option, just told her what her schedule for the next week was (she found out on a day off) and that she'd better be there.  I know this isn't an isolated incident in the least, but the ridiculousness of this type of crap was brought immediately back to mind since this hit so close to home.  And "people" wonder why folks have had enough and are walking out in record numbers.

[avatar! | 1,841]

4 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

So, my brother in law, who is fully vaccinated, managed to catch COVID (most likely due to his office not requiring masks, social distancing, etc.).  Whole family was supposed to be quarantined for 8 days due to this, although my sister in law (who is not vaccinated) tested negative.  No idea about my niece and nephew, other than they're also not vaccinated, as nobody mentioned whether they were tested or not; both are apparently home from school, though.  Well, couple of days go by, and now my sister in law is testing positive as well.  Is she staying home, in quarantine, as she's supposed to?  Nope!  Since she's an x-ray tech, the hospital group she works for is requiring her to come in and work, even though it's possible she'll pass it on to coworkers, patients, etc.  They apparently didn't even give her the option, just told her what her schedule for the next week was (she found out on a day off) and that she'd better be there.  I know this isn't an isolated incident in the least, but the ridiculousness of this type of crap was brought immediately back to mind since this hit so close to home.  And "people" wonder why folks have had enough and are walking out in record numbers.

I bet it's all due to worthless admins, they always cause trouble...