Retro Gaming Market Manipulation - Analysis and Examples

[Gentlegamer | 211]

Pat gives examples of this topic, cites NA:

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Gentlegamer

[spacepup | 2,481]

I think whatever NA shenanigans he's referring to were before my time (as a mod), so I can't really speak to that, but I will say, I do agree with many of his comments about manipulation and scalping.

Sometimes there is perhaps some speculation about exactly when or how much it happens, but I do know for a fact that it DOES happen some, and I've become aware of several examples over the years where someone did it intentionally and sometimes even owned up to it. 

[AirVillain | 533]

I didn't have patience to find the NA reference. I imagine he's talking about ppl hyping the game. 

It's all so simple... but yes... they explain it. 

I can definitely agree that Rad Gravity is a dogshit game. Actually... that's being too generous. But again... this review now questions the Battletaods review. 

They gave Battletoads and Rad Gravity a shitty review.... sssssssooooo.... how can I trust ANY reviews now? 

Haha... I'm not that bent out of shape about Battletoads, I promise. 

[guitarzombie | 935]

I liked Rad Gravity :(.

[phart010 | 1,779]

1 hour ago, AirVillain said:

I didn't have patience to find the NA reference. I imagine he's talking about ppl hyping the game. 

It's all so simple... but yes... they explain it. 

I can definitely agree that Rad Gravity is a dogshit game. Actually... that's being too generous. But again... this review now questions the Battletaods review. 

They gave Battletoads and Rad Gravity a shitty review.... sssssssooooo.... how can I trust ANY reviews now? 

Haha... I'm not that bent out of shape about Battletoads, I promise. 

He’s talking about two things. 
 

One is hyping up a game that is known to be rare or uncommon. This causes people to try to get it in a frenzy and the price gets bidded up higher (permanently because it’s uncommon).

The second is people buying up a couple dozen copies of a game. Then selling them to their friends “buy it now” at a price level above the market price. After 5 or so sales at an artificially high price get into eBay sales history, that becomes the new market price. Because other sellers will reference the past 5 sales and set their price based on that.

[AirVillain | 533]

58 minutes ago, guitarzombie said:

I liked Rad Gravity :(.

Oof. Sorry for your loss (of time as a child). 

[Tanooki | 5,092]

NA doesn't deserve the blame for Hagane, he was off and on the site at that time.  I remember that conversation, his memory is right, but wrong.  Those self serving pricks at cinemassacare caused it.  It was like their first hidden gem video, or at least the first one that took off like wildfire.  They claimed it was rare, that it was a rental, that it was impossible to find (and it wasn't, lower amount of copies yes, but hard to get...no...rare...no.)  NA fed off it because we were getting annoyed at that shitty video and others post that where we'd debate how a game was $10 and now $200...$400+  Hagane, Run Saber, Pocky & Rocky 2, and others got the mike/cinemassacre treatment and the prices got hosed.

The early VGPC stuff since it had less years to feed off of, it had this huge rocket like trajectory launch of the line graph post video.  FOMO kicked in, you know fear only morons observe...and they'd buy, then another would buy for more, and more, and more...then it plateaued.  Sometimes they'd retreat a bit, some a lot (like Guardian Legend went stupid high, then fell largely back to normal + a little.)

NA didn't cause it, they just didn't help things debating it and broadcasting it, but also other 'rare' games that could be the next victim of the stupidity which basically fed into it.

[Gentlegamer | 211]

I recall someone trying to pump up Isolated Warrior on NA. Don't know if it worked.

[DefaultGen | 5,715]

2 hours ago, Gentlegamer said:

I recall someone trying to pump up Isolated Warrior on NA. Don't know if it worked.

It's truly the last hidden gem of NES. Never forget.

[tidaldreams | 654]

I think some peeps have been trying to corner the market on Crimson Tears and Fragile Dreams. Lol

[Silent Hill | 281]

18 hours ago, Tanooki said:

NA doesn't deserve the blame for Hagane, he was off and on the site at that time.  I remember that conversation, his memory is right, but wrong.  Those self serving pricks at cinemassacare caused it.  It was like their first hidden gem video, or at least the first one that took off like wildfire.  They claimed it was rare, that it was a rental, that it was impossible to find (and it wasn't, lower amount of copies yes, but hard to get...no...rare...no.)  NA fed off it because we were getting annoyed at that shitty video and others post that where we'd debate how a game was $10 and now $200...$400+  Hagane, Run Saber, Pocky & Rocky 2, and others got the mike/cinemassacre treatment and the prices got hosed.

The early VGPC stuff since it had less years to feed off of, it had this huge rocket like trajectory launch of the line graph post video.  FOMO kicked in, you know fear only morons observe...and they'd buy, then another would buy for more, and more, and more...then it plateaued.  Sometimes they'd retreat a bit, some a lot (like Guardian Legend went stupid high, then fell largely back to normal + a little.)

NA didn't cause it, they just didn't help things debating it and broadcasting it, but also other 'rare' games that could be the next victim of the stupidity which basically fed into it.

While I agree that a lot of people (especially YT personalities) seem to forget that their videos are a major cause in price increases, if only by brining awareness to titles. That said, Hagane is legit uncommon/rare as is P&R2. I rarely saw those over my 15 years of collecting. (Though I did get a copy of Hagane for $3.50 from LukieGames on eBay in 2014 - by pure luck)

[Tanooki | 5,092]

Sure they're uncommon, rare I'd call a stretch.  I've turned down copies of Hagane before the hype as I thought the game was just crappy, the other I've owned, but just didn't bother to hold onto as I felt done with it and have seen it too.  They only really dried up after the hype wagon started, well...dried up with fair prices, now you see a constant stream of them posted more than before with truly asinine prices caused by fools unfortunately.

Dumb stuff like this is directly why I support 1:1 external copies of old games, a middle finger back at what speculators and investors have caused.  Price people out?  Fine, have a job of making sure your stuff is real and verifiable on top of finding a mark willing to pony up that much, while allowing normal people to have something that still fits in and plays all the same.  Win win.

[Tulpa | 3,679]

3 hours ago, Gentlegamer said:

I recall someone trying to pump up Isolated Warrior on NA. Don't know if it worked.

Polar Bear. I remember he was trying to pass it off as a "Hey, this is a cool game, check it out," but it was pretty obvious he was sitting on a couple of copies to flip. He did get people to bite on a few BINs right then and there, but I don't know if he managed to get the price to stay up.

[NESfiend | 1,553]

I havent listened to the audio yet, but will. Reading the other comments though what strikes me is that Pat has been claiming prices were artificially high for the better part of a decade. I once listened to a lot of his best of podcasts on a road trip. You can hear him go off about people being crazy to pay 30 bucks for a loose copy of whatever that now probably goes for like 250. Yet he still completed his full nes set not that long ago. And I genuinely like Pat and find him entertaining, but always know to take his price commentary with a grain of salt. He is a great broadcaster though and I love hearing him talk about other things, especially growing up in the 80s.

Fear of the bubble burst, price manipulation, etc. caused a lot of people to sell off collections at various times over the last several years. Ill admit I pondered, but always figured Id rather have it even it turns to pennies on the dollar. Its a hobby I didn't want to ditch.

Generally, for the peopke who did sell though, the sooner they did, the more they missed out on bigger margins. The fact of the matter is game collecting keeps getting bigger and nice 30 year old shit just isnt growing on trees. Is any of that stuff going on? Sure, probably to some extent. But its too big a market now for the bad apples to run or really have any big effect.

Are the prices being manipulated at heritage auctions with games going 6 and 7 figures? No. And people arent investing that kind of money on a whim in a dying hobby. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by NESfiend

[Prime2099 | 192]

NA was a bit notorious for pumping up games. I remember someone pumping Downhill Domination for PS2.