Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles

[phart010 | 1,708]

I read these two games were supposed to be one game but they released them separately. Also read that the pc version was released as a single game...

Are the stories of the two games connected? When they are together as a single game, do you have to complete Sonic 3 and then it leads into Sonic & Knuckles or can you just choose to start with Sonic & Knuckles as a separate game??

[sp1nz | 615]

Indeed they were supposed to be connected from the start but Sega split them into two games due to time constraints and limited cartridge space. Therefore the lock-on is the intended full Sonic 3 experience and the stories are connected: like for example Sonic 3 ends with less involved boss and the & Knuckles half has super emeralds that allow you turn into Hyper Sonic/Knuckles, if collected - you of course need all chaos emeralds to start gaining these.

Edited February 15, 2021 by sp1nz

[fox | 1,673]

They started out as one project but were split due to size and time and a fast food tie in.

Yes the "stories" are connected.  But let's use that term loosely cause it is a platformer from 1993.

Yes when connected you play through the Sonic 3 stages first and then it rolls into the Sonic & Knuckles stages.  Some Sonic 3 stages have slight changes, and of course this allows you to play as Knuckles in the Sonic 3 stages.  It also allows you to save (which you can't do in the stand alone S&K cart) and is the only way to pay as Tails, or Sonic & Tails as a duo in the S&K stages.

If you just want to start and play the Sonic & Knuckles stages, you can just play the Sonic & Knuckles cart by itself.

You can also lock the S&K cart onto Sonic 2 to play as Knuckles in that game.

The S&K cart also can lock onto other games and allows you to play the blue sphere bonus games (if you are a masochist)

[fox | 1,673]

Also the PC port apparently doesn't run well on modern machines and that is the version with the changed soundtrack.  Some people like those tracks but Sonic 3 without the MJ tracks would make me sad.

If you are really looking for the ultimate Sonic 3 & Knuckles experience, check out Sonic 3 Complete patch.  Combines the games into a single rom, gives you the PC extras, and lots of other nice tweaks and fixes.

Edited February 15, 2021 by fox

[ZeldaFreak | 3,619]

53 minutes ago, fox said:

The S&K cart also can lock onto other games and allows you to play the blue sphere bonus games (if you are a masochist)

Hey, I like blue spheres, I think it's the most fun bonus game out of the classic 3 games (Or I guess 4 if you count Sonic & Knuckles as it's own game) but maybe that's just me

[phart010 | 1,708]

52 minutes ago, fox said:

They started out as one project but were split due to size and time and a fast food tie in.

Yes the "stories" are connected.  But let's use that term loosely cause it is a platformer from 1993.

Yes when connected you play through the Sonic 3 stages first and then it rolls into the Sonic & Knuckles stages.  Some Sonic 3 stages have slight changes, and of course this allows you to play as Knuckles in the Sonic 3 stages.  It also allows you to save (which you can't do in the stand alone S&K cart) and is the only way to pay as Tails, or Sonic & Tails as a duo in the S&K stages.

If you just want to start and play the Sonic & Knuckles stages, you can just play the Sonic & Knuckles cart by itself.

You can also lock the S&K cart onto Sonic 2 to play as Knuckles in that game.

The S&K cart also can lock onto other games and allows you to play the blue sphere bonus games (if you are a masochist)

So your saying that when you stack the 2 games, it starts on the first level of Sonic 3 then after you beat the game then it keeps rolling into the first level of Sonic & Knuckles

[ZeldaFreak | 3,619]

Just now, phart010 said:

So your saying that when you stack the 2 games, it starts on the first level of Sonic 3 then after you beat the game then it keeps rolling into the first level of Sonic & Knuckles

Yes, since they were originally intended to be a single game.

[fox | 1,673]

Just now, phart010 said:

So your saying that when you stack the 2 games, it starts on the first level of Sonic 3 then after you beat the game then it keeps rolling into the first level of Sonic & Knuckles

[phart010 | 1,708]

4 minutes ago, fox said:

Chilidogs

[Sumez | 2,995]

It's the only way to play the game IMO.

I honestly really like the subtle way the story is told in the game. It doesn't have that much going on, but it's all the better for it. There are story setpieces that definitely carry from one game into the other, especially when you look at how the stages themselves segue into eachother.

It's a little random in the Sonic 3 half of the game, but it introduces stuff like the Knuckles character, and eventually you'll go through Ice Cap Zone into Launch Base Zone where you prevent the launch of the Sonic version of the Death Star (the "Death Egg" ), and the original game ends as it comes crashing back towards the ground.
As you go through the Knuckles half, you'll end up in Lava Reef Zone where you find the death egg stuck in the ground in the background. This is where you find the hidden palace where the chaos emerald are kept, and a bunch of story ensues as the space station takes off again using the powers of the emeralds or whatever, while Sonic chases it into the sky.

It's not the most exciting of plots, but the way it's told through the nature of the stages, using absolutely no dialogue is just so charming it's impossible not to like. You really need both games played with lock-on to get the full experience.

Oh and there's a final stage that's only available when you play the games locked on and find all the hyper emeralds.  

[TDIRunner | 2,775]

I always enjoyed both Sonic 3 and S&K, but Sonic 2 has always been my favorite.  I love playing Sonic 2 with Knuckles.

[DefaultGen | 5,434]

12 hours ago, phart010 said:

So your saying that when you stack the 2 games, it starts on the first level of Sonic 3 then after you beat the game then it keeps rolling into the first level of Sonic & Knuckles

Yes, as opposed to if you accidentally play Sonic 3 alone where you play 6 stages, the credits roll, and you're left wondering where the rest of the game is  

Edited February 15, 2021 by DefaultGen

[rdrunner | 422]

On 2/15/2021 at 11:51 AM, DefaultGen said:

Yes, as opposed to if you accidentally play Sonic 3 alone where you play 6 stages, the credits roll, and you're left wondering where the rest of the game is  

Did that. To be fair, it wasn't an accident.  It was a video rental.

Honestly, I like the locked on S3&K, but prefer some of the music from Sonic 3 that gets swapped out (ex: title screen, Knuckles' theme).  Not sure why the first half of the combined game couldn't use the Sonic 3 music.

Great game(s) though!

[Estil | 1,265]

I've only played it as the full Sonic 3 & Knuckles.  Considering how HUGE the game is and how there's four (well kinda) characters to play as you certainly get your money's worth!

[Sumez | 2,995]

9 hours ago, rdrunner said:

Honestly, I like the locked on S3&K, but prefer some of the music from Sonic 3 that gets swapped out (ex: title screen, Knuckles' theme).  Not sure why the first half of the combined game couldn't use the Sonic 3 music.

I'm surprised you'd like S3's drum loop over S3&K's actual theme for Knuckles.
I prefer the &Knuckles version of pretty much every theme that got changed

Act 1 boss especially was a massive improvement.

[Kguillemette | 1,547]

The best way to play it these days is to unlock it in Sonic Mega Collection for GC and play on a Wii using component cables, imo. Plus the mega collection disk is super cheap.

[MegaMan52 | 2,461]

45 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

The best way to play it these days is to unlock it in Sonic Mega Collection for GC and play on a Wii using component cables, imo. Plus the mega collection disk is super cheap.

I've had the GameCube's Component cable for years now, so I just play Sonic Mega Collection using my GameCube.

[rdrunner | 422]

17 hours ago, Sumez said:

I'm surprised you'd like S3's drum loop over S3&K's actual theme for Knuckles.
I prefer the &Knuckles version of pretty much every theme that got changed

Act 1 boss especially was a massive improvement.

As a former drummer, I like a good drum solo.  For this reason, the simple loop for Knuckles' theme (and even Act 1 Boss) from Sonic 3 just stood out for me.  Then I played S3&K for the first time and immediately went "huh?".

The S&K music is great too though.  Almost every stage is memorable (except Mushroom Hill).  I especially like the Death Egg and the Lava Reef stages.

One other thing: That video forgot to compare end credits themes.  Sonic 3 has an entire song, while S&K mostly just remixes the stage music.  This is well done, but I wish they would have come up with something special for S3&K here that included both games (at least a bigger, more inclusive remix?).  Simply reusing the S&K credits song was disappointing.

Edited February 18, 2021 by rdrunner

[Sumez | 2,995]

17 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

The best way to play it these days is to unlock it in Sonic Mega Collection for GC and play on a Wii using component cables, imo. Plus the mega collection disk is super cheap.

Or you could just put your Sonic 3 cartridge into your S&K cartridge and play that